Why does it seem like everyone hates ROTT ?

[sweet and tender hooligan]

I must say i love this album as well. Personally i think it's morrissey's best work in a while. The b-sides are also great, as good as some of the album tracks.

 

[Assassin]

It was the first Morrissey album I heard, and I fell in love with instantly.
Looking back in retrospect, it probably is one of his weaker albums.
The songs all fit together well but the songs one their own are just quite average. Except perhaps You Have Killed Me, Pigsty and Hero...apart from that they sound like standard rock songs. This is something I put down to Jesse Tobias. His guitar playing is excellent on You Have Killed Me, but everything else sounds so standard.
There are simply not enough 'special songs' on it. I realised this since I have listened to more bootlegs. They just sound so tired and tedious along side his other songs.

Still though, it's quite enjoyable to listen to now and again.

 

[Hellie]

Its my second fave after YATQ.Its oustanding.It has a strange feel to it.You can feel the Rome in it.Its dramatic,melancholy. I`ll never Be Anybody`s Hero is one of the best if not the best along with come Back to Camden Moz solo tracks ever.

 

[Danny]

I think the perception that everyone hates it comes from the fact that the detractors seems to use much more strident and aggressive language when they talk about it than the people who like it. They shout a lot louder.

 

[Bluebirds]

To those people who dislike Vauxhall and I they've just pooh-poohed their own argument. There is no accounting for taste.

I think Ringleaders was a fine and mature collection of songs. His fourth best LP IMHO. (after the godly Vauxhall, Your Arsenal and Viva Hate)

 

[EPbabe]

I don't hate it. I wouldn't call it my favourite but since it was my 3rd Morrissey-cd ever, I still hold very gentle feelings towards it. Dear God Please Help Me and Life Is a Pigstygive me shivers anytime I hear them.

 

[jeniphir]

I blame Visconti for the things I don't like about ROTT. The arrangements are overwrought and weighed down with too much of just about everything. The strings, the children's choir. . .It's like no one ever knew when to say, "Enough!" I imagine that as producer he had some say in which songs ended up on the album, as well, and I just don't feel that they are all strong songs. There are some 9s and 10s on there, but there are also some 2s and 3s. The album is just very uneven.

Additionally, I do find myself cringing a bit at the references Moz makes to his love/sex life. . .I get it, you're f***ing now. Good on ya. But hearing sex treated like a novelty by a man in his late 40s is kind of embarassing. It's all the teenagerish emotions of early sexual experiences expressed with the vocabulary of a worldly adult, and it just adds up to. . .makes me glad I'm not in a relationship with him!

I agree that some of the b-sides are better than some of the album tracks. I found ROTT disappointing after You Are the Quarry, which I feel is perhaps his best ever album (and as of 2004, Moz thought so, too--said so on the Johnathan Ross show). Where Quarry was pared down to the essentials, Ringleader is loaded up with excessive flourishes at every turn.

I'm a long-time fan (20+ years now, ack), and I don't hate ROTT, but I don't love it, either. Its moments of brilliance ("Life is a Pigsty," "At Last I Am Born") are dragged down by its clunkers (dear god, please help me not have to hear "On The Streets I Ran," anymore!). If Quarry marked the "freshman outing" in the latest phase of Morrissey's career (Mature Crooner phase), then Ringleader is definitley the "sophomore slump."

--jeniphir

 

[chrisarclark]

initially ilovd every second of ROTT. istill find it far better than YATQ, but it has wained a little for me. these last two albums- especially YATQ- do seem to be missing something- ive been trying to put my finger on it, but it still somewhat eludes me.

ithink its partly the sense of self doubt, a certain level of genuineness that has left Morrissey. he seems to care less at this point. his arrogance is at an all-time high- not likely to come down again. now, Morrissey has always been quite arrogant, but it was always buffered or balanced by a certain vulnerablity that simply seems to no longer exist. ithink his art suffers somewhat for this.

looking at the album specifically, many of the songs are very good, but a few ring hollow.

IWSYIFOP and DGPHM are powerful, but are often difficult to listen to and take seriously.

YHKM is great- better than any single from YATQ.

TYWTML and TFWMBK are weak- theyre juste not believable lyrically, clumsy attempts.

ITFWAW is great- again, better than any single off YATQ.

LIAP is overrated. it couldve been brilliant, but lyrically it falls short- there are some brilliant moments, particularly the final refrain, but all in all the lyrics disappoint.

INBAH and TMYAAWOA are very good, especially the latter. those who were saying that ROTT loses it after LIAP couldnt be more wrong- ROTT solidifies itself from tracks 8-12.

OTSIR and IJWTSTBH are great racing tracks- im sure theyd be brilliant live.

ALIAB is a rousing closer- im not sure id ant to hear it live as anything other than the rare final song of the set, but it works well on the album, bookending ROTT with its most over the top pieces (as did SG), lending more creedence to both.

its a very good album- far better than YATQ- but it doesnt quite capture the magic of earlier albums. still, icant understand the incredibly harsh criticism thats been leveled at ROTT, especially when its coupled with praise for the relatively similar yet vastly inferior YATQ.

 

[Walkers Crisp]

I blame Visconti for the things I don't like about ROTT. The arrangements are overwrought and weighed down with too much of just about everything. The strings, the children's choir. . .It's like no one ever knew when to say, "Enough!" I imagine that as producer he had some say in which songs ended up on the album, as well, and I just don't feel that they are all strong songs. There are some 9s and 10s on there, but there are also some 2s and 3s. The album is just very uneven.

Additionally, I do find myself cringing a bit at the references Moz makes to his love/sex life. . .I get it, you're f***ing now. Good on ya. But hearing sex treated like a novelty by a man in his late 40s is kind of embarassing. It's all the teenagerish emotions of early sexual experiences expressed with the vocabulary of a worldly adult, and it just adds up to. . .makes me glad I'm not in a relationship with him!

I agree that some of the b-sides are better than some of the album tracks. I found ROTT disappointing after You Are the Quarry, which I feel is perhaps his best ever album (and as of 2004, Moz thought so, too--said so on the Johnathan Ross show). Where Quarry was pared down to the essentials, Ringleader is loaded up with excessive flourishes at every turn.

I'm a long-time fan (20+ years now, ack), and I don't hate ROTT, but I don't love it, either. Its moments of brilliance ("Life is a Pigsty," "At Last I Am Born") are dragged down by its clunkers (dear god, please help me not have to hear "On The Streets I Ran," anymore!). If Quarry marked the "freshman outing" in the latest phase of Morrissey's career (Mature Crooner phase), then Ringleader is definitley the "sophomore slump."

--jeniphir

You just summed it up perfectly. Thanks.

(Tho I must admit "On The Streets I Ran" is the strongest song in the ROTT collection IMHO, but not anywhere near the Southpaw tracks).

 

[nugz]

initially ilovd every second of ROTT. istill find it far better than YATQ, but it has wained a little for me. these last two albums- especially YATQ- do seem to be missing something- ive been trying to put my finger on it, but it still somewhat eludes me.

ithink its partly the sense of self doubt, a certain level of genuineness that has left Morrissey. he seems to care less at this point. his arrogance is at an all-time high- not likely to come down again. now, Morrissey has always been quite arrogant, but it was always buffered or balanced by a certain vulnerablity that simply seems to no longer exist. ithink his art suffers somewhat for this.

looking at the album specifically, many of the songs are very good, but a few ring hollow.

IWSYIFOP and DGPHM are powerful, but are often difficult to listen to and take seriously.

YHKM is great- better than any single from YATQ.

TYWTML and TFWMBK are weak- theyre juste not believable lyrically, clumsy attempts.

ITFWAW is great- again, better than any single off YATQ.

LIAP is overrated. it couldve been brilliant, but lyrically it falls short- there are some brilliant moments, particularly the final refrain, but all in all the lyrics disappoint.

INBAH and TMYAAWOA are very good, especially the latter. those who were saying that ROTT loses it after LIAP couldnt be more wrong- ROTT solidifies itself from tracks 8-12.

OTSIR and IJWTSTBH are great racing tracks- im sure theyd be brilliant live.

ALIAB is a rousing closer- im not sure id ant to hear it live as anything other than the rare final song of the set, but it works well on the album, bookending ROTT with its most over the top pieces (as did SG), lending more creedence to both.

its a very good album- far better than YATQ- but it doesnt quite capture the magic of earlier albums. still, icant understand the incredibly harsh criticism thats been leveled at ROTT, especially when its coupled with praise for the relatively similar yet vastly inferior YATQ.

you just couldnt write out the f***ING words could ya??

 

[Comtesse]

I found ROTT disappointing after You Are the Quarry, which I feel is perhaps his best ever album (and as of 2004, Moz thought so, too--said so on the Johnathan Ross show).

Yeah, but he says that about every album he releases when it's new. I never pay those statements any mind. Morrissey can't seriously believe that YATQ is his best album ever. If he does, he is obviously senile.

I like "Ringleader" - I prefer it to YATQ which is Morrissey's Sgt. Pepper's (severely overrated) - but I don't like it nearly as much as I did when it was first released. There are a few awful songs on it (stand up "I Will See You In Far Off Places," "On The Streets I Ran," and "I Just Want To See The Boy Happy"). There are some out of tune vocals ("Dear God..." and "On the Streets..."), and some truly cringeworthy lyrics (see below). But I do love half of the songs on it including the much-maligned "Father Who Must Be Killed" (why do people hate this song???), "The Youngest Was The Most Loved" (even though he forgot to write the rest of the lyrics), "I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now," "In the Future When All's Well" and, of course, the magnificent "Life Is A Pigsty".

All in all, it's not bad. Better than Southpaw, better than Kill Uncle, and yes, better than You Are The Quarry... but not quite as good as Maladjusted and paling in the glowing light cast by Viva Hate, Your Arsenal and Vauxhall and I.

And now, my countdown of the Top 10 Most ROTTen Lyrics:

10) "I want to see this boy happy - why is this such a bad thing?"
9) "No warm to warm me"
8) "Dear God" (see "Dear God Please Help Me" and "On the Streets I Ran")
7) "If you don't leave you will kill or be killed, which isn't very nice"
6) "Til the day that you croak, it's no joke"
5) "Lord these words I beg of you as I kneel down at my bed"
4) "Take people from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, just spare me"
3) "Now I'm spreading your legs with mine in between"
2) "There are explosive kegs between my legs"
1) "I see the world, it makes me puke"

 

[MozIsGod]

"Father Who Must Be Killed" (why do people hate this song???)QUOTE]

That song sounds dull and lifeless on the record, but in concert it is simply magical.

 

[Comtesse]

"Father Who Must Be Killed" (why do people hate this song???)QUOTE]

That song sounds dull and lifeless on the record, but in concert it is simply magical.

Perhaps I'm biased, but any song about a stepchild who stabs to death her abusive stepfather gets the thumbs up from me!

(I should say any Moz song... I'm sure I'd hate it if it were by somebody common.)

 

[raincoated lover]

I personally think that ROTT is Morrissey's best album, (although not his best commercial output, that belongs to "bona drag").

although it gets off to an AWFUL and cringe worthy start, the rest of the album is filled with killer guitar work thanks to tobias, and is all in all very well rendered by Visconti, his production skills go hand in hand with the mellower, wiser, older and grounded persona Morrissey has seemed to adopt as of late.

I also think that this album (minus the awful opening track) is not trying to provoke or be controversial in any way, as appose to many of the songs on his other albums, and he has made this album because he has something to say through his art, not in a bid for a comeback (as was the case with YATQ).

My favourite track on the album has to be "To Me You Are A Work Of Art". Although it is not a classic Morrissey song as far as it lacks his wit and irony, it is a classic love song and, musically, is one of Morrissey's best ever songs, the music really goes hand in hand with the lyrics.

The album seems all in all more classy and serious than YATQ; I seem to compare these two albums, rightly or wrongly, as I for one am not a huge YATQ supporter - it is in my opinion only worsened by Viva Hate and Maladjusted.

AND the songs are KILLER live.

 

[nugz]

I personally think that ROTT is Morrissey's best album

umm, better than Vauxhall and Your Arsenal?

yeah, okay.

 

[Kuiper]

When I first heard Ringleader the only songs that I at all liked were Youngest, Father, and On the Streets (I know, three odd, not very popular choices). Overall, I thought it was a poor album. Then after a few months I really over-compensated and thought it was one of his best. I remember really hating Dear God for some reason, and no it wasn't that I was put-off by the sexual lyrics, I just really hated the music and the vocals. Now it's one of my favorites from the album and one of my favorites overall. I guess some of the appeal of the album has waned a bit for me, but it still sounds great live. Almost all the songs sound better in concert, notably I Will See You, Pigsty, In the Future, and since it was only played a handful of times I guess it's gone mostly unnoticed, but Father sounded great from the one recording I heard, especially the guitar solo.

So, in short, I am completely confused and disoriented and don't know where to rank this album and what I think about it. All I know is I like what I hear, regardless of how much I like it in comparison to anything else and how my opinions might have changed over time, is that okay?

 

[dicartwright]

See, I don't care who writes the music. I don't even know who wrote which songs. The first 8 tracks on Ringleader are all great, then it drags on a bit, but that's a good run for any album. And I think Morrissey's and Kristeen's voices sound very good together, a proper duet would be nice. Sorry, I know you don't like her
As for Quarry... no. He sounds extremely childish on some of the songs (How Can Anybody...), whereas on Ringleader he comes across as more mature, and I find that a lot more appealing. I just dug out a mini review I wrote on Ringleader just after it was released and I'm surprised that I still agree with most of it. Quarry on the other hand didn't have a long term effect on me.
It all comes down to personal taste anyway.


Seconded.

You're right about that, YATQ is more childish. I tend to forgive him that in exchange for not growing way too old before time

 

[Kuiper]

9) "No warm to warm me"

Are you serious? I never knew what word that was, I could never make it out clearly. I looked up the lyrics and assumed it was a typo. It can't be true. I mean really, it can't, it's impossible, it's not real English! No warm to warm me? Why not no home to warm me? No warm to heat me? But I don't mean to sound so fussy about that one line, I still love the song including the lyrics.

 

[Comtesse]

Are you serious? I never knew what word that was, I could never make it out clearly. I looked up the lyrics and assumed it was a typo. It can't be true. I mean really, it can't, it's impossible, it's not real English! No warm to warm me? Why not no home to warm me? No warm to heat me? But I don't mean to sound so fussy about that one line, I still love the song including the lyrics.

Or, it could have simply been "No one to warm me" - it would have sounded the same and made sense! But look at the lyric sheet... it actually says, "No warm to warm me". I wouldn't believe it myself if I didn't see it.

 

[jeniphir]

I think "The Father Who Must Be Killed" is an excellent song; it's an example Moz's own Camp Mayhem subgenre, perhaps not at its finest (that would be "November Spawned a Monster"), but definitely in fine form. Lyrically, it is masterful; it's the music that falls short.

--jeniphir