UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gig

[imogen11]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Would it be a particularly big gig? I can't really imagine the fanbase....

Obviously bigger and more deserving than Australia, or South America....

No, trust me -- He's persecuted. .

He's not Jesus Christ, y'know
'Disliked', perhaps. 'Persecuted', hardly.

I thought Morrissey was one for women's rights, yet he wants to play somewhere where women are treated like shit?

Bingo.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

So if Iran is f***ed up today, don't go villifying Iranian people for that.

Chill. You completely overreacted to what I said. I'm not villifying the people, but you can't claim that women are treated fairly there.

 

[imogen11]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

So Iranian Morrissey fans shouldn't get to see him play because of their government's human rights record?

Morrissey hated Thatcher, should he have not played in ritain in the 1980's?

And if he was to boycott states who harm womens rights, he would boycott the USA which backs fundamentalist regimes such as in Saudi Arabia, and which put governments like the Taliban in place in the past.

Oh and which also put a murderous dictaotr (who at the time they decided on him was in prison for being a Nazi sympathiser) in power in Iran the 1950's, because the secular-democratic elected govt. dared to try to nationalise the oil sector. So if Iran is f***ed up today, don't go villifying Iranian people for that.

..well, where do you draw the line? Seals, it seems, are worth a boycott, but then it has always appeared that Morrissey values animals over humans. I would think most Morrissey fans aren't out clubbing seals themselves, yet they suffer the consequences. Cassius makes a good point in light of the Canada boycott and especially considering Morrissey's feminist bias.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Cassius makes a good point in light of the Canada boycott and especially considering Morrissey's feminist bias.

Thank you, imogen.

 

[Currer Bell]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

I thought Morrissey was one for women's rights, yet he wants to play somewhere where women are treated like shit?

why do people still think that Morrissey is about women's rights?

He hasn't spoken publicly on the subject.

At most, he was entertained by the idea of it as a teenager because of the potential gender-bending aspects for HIM such as being an au pair or wearing glitter and girl's shirts.

He and the band even have a very "we are the guys!" thing going on that you typically find in such environments like the army or strip clubs while the women get to cut his hair and press his shirts.

...even his nephew's band has a girl in it....

He even phrases his disdain for Hillary Clinton in terms of her being a man. I'm not sure what Hillary did to him.

he even accused any woman who wore fur of being a bad mother which sounds very old fashioned and a bit backwards.

Sorry. I know that I've said it before, but it's true...Moz ain't the world's biggest feminist.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

He and the band even have a very "we are the guys!" thing going on that you typically find in such environments like the army or strip clubs while the women get to cut his hair and press his shirts.

I don't see what women cutting his hair and pressing his shirts has anything to do with it.

...even his nephew's band has a girl in it....

So?

He even phrases his disdain for Hillary Clinton in terms of her being a man. I'm not sure what Hillary did to him.

He says mean things about a lot of people. It's by no means mature, but it's definetly not misognystic.

he even accused any woman who wore fur of being a bad mother which sounds very old fashioned and a bit backwards.

I don't doubt that he would call a man wearing fur "a bad father" just as easily. He has extreme views regarding fur; his comment does not suprise me.

Sorry. I know that I've said it before, but it's true...Moz ain't the world's biggest feminist.

I agree with you on that.

 

[imogen11]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

why do people still think that Morrissey is about women's rights?

At most, he was entertained by the idea of it as a teenager...Moz ain't the world's biggest feminist.

I agree with you here. Perhaps the Morrissey of old wouldn't have played Iran, but Modern Moz is up for it.

I also agree he isn't the world's biggest feiminist, I don't think Cassius or I said he was.

Now, if Iran had a bad track record when it came to ANIMAL rights, I'm sure he wouldn't be playing there.

I doubt it will ever happen anyway.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

why do people still think that Morrissey is about women's rights?

He hasn't spoken publicly on the subject.

At most, he was entertained by the idea of it as a teenager because of the potential gender-bending aspects for HIM such as being an au pair or wearing glitter and girl's shirts.

If Morrissey is still interested in working as an au pair, I have two delightful, amusing, and intelligent children who could use a full-time caregiver. Problem is, I work from home, so they would have to tiptoe past my office.

He and the band even have a very "we are the guys!" thing going on that you typically find in such environments like the army or strip clubs while the women get to cut his hair and press his shirts.

The Moz and th' Lads thing looks like the Mob. In the Mob and the Outfit, the leaders will surround themselves with... well, a posse. Younger, good-looking men. It's a show of force, and the younger, attractive men are there to send a signal that the leader is still powerful and connected--and relevant. With his love of the romance of crime... that's my interpretation of that.

he even accused any woman who wore fur of being a bad mother which sounds very old fashioned and a bit backwards.

I was there, I heard the comments. And I have the bootleg, to boot. He said that they were good and loving and intelligent mothers, but they were wearing other creature's babies' skins on their backs. Which isn't misogynistic at all, it's simply pointing out the disconnect in logic that allows many humans to consume other creatures when there is no need to.

He's not misogynistic, he can be very empathetic. He wrote All the Lazy Dykes, for God's sake. But he also doesn't fail to voice his opinions. If anything, maybe he should do it more often.

 

[Vulgar Picture]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Chill. You completely overreacted to what I said. I'm not villifying the people, but you can't claim that women are treated fairly there.

I don't think women are treated fairly anywhere. Women in Britain earn a lot less for the same job than a man does, and in the mdeia they are treated as sexual objects. In the US it's even worse, basic rights such as abortion are under constant attack.

The view that Iran is backward and needs to be punished is the problem here. Iran's problems come in large part from the way the west has treated that region. The last thing they need is more colelctive punishment. Moz is right to do what he can to show the world that Iranian society is complicated, like all societies, and not simply some backward shithole that needs to condemned and avoided by everyone.

I mean what if an Iranian woman wants to go see Morrissey. You think we'd be treating her less like shit to deny her that right?

Also there is the point that if people like Mozza offer to play in Iran, and the government says no, then this highlights the government's flaws to the people there, and can make the already gorwing opposition get even stronger.

So sorry if you think I am overreacting but I think actually that this is a very important issue and every little thing people say shows up deeper prejudices in our society. If you really want to stand alongside Iranians then you will try to find ways to integrate them with people like you and me, not just shut them off as a rogue state or whatever.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

The view that Iran is backward and needs to be punished is the problem here.

That's not my view at all. In fact, I, nor anyone, said anything like that.

I only pointed this out because Moz has boycotted Canada over seal-clubbing, and to go somewhere were women are supressed on a grand scale when he has feministic views seems odd to me. This doesn't mean I hate people from Iran, and I don't see how you could get something like that out of my post.

I am glad that you feel that this is an important issue, but you are overreacting. Please step back, re-read my posts, and realize that I have said nothing wrong.

I don't like being accused being predjudiced either, so in the future please refrain from doing so.

 

[*EqualOpportunityHater*]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

They hang teenage kids in Iran simply for being gay. Moz is a turd for even having talks with any goverment official from that country. Most of the poeple are good there, it's the insane fundametalist government that's pure EVIL.

EOH hates when leftist Liberals ally themselves with brutal nations simply to make a political point about the war and other issues. Sean Penn is a perfect example of that.... EOH would love to bash his head in with a hammer.

 

[Vulgar Picture]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

That's not my view at all. In fact, I, nor anyone, said anything like that.

I only pointed this out because Moz has boycotted Canada over seal-clubbing, and to go somewhere were women are supressed on a grand scale when he has feministic views seems odd to me. This doesn't mean I hate people from Iran, and I don't see how you could get something like that out of my post.

I am glad that you feel that this is an important issue, but you are overreacting. Please step back, re-read my posts, and realize that I have said nothing wrong.

I don't like being accused being predjudiced either, so in the future please refrain from doing so.

ok well I apologise if I misrepresented you. I'm sure you are not in any way a racist.

I personally don't agree with the boycott of Canada either, but I think it's a different situation. Playing in a underdeveloped country which is struggling under a dictatorship and historic oppression from the west is different from playing or not playing in Canada over the issue of animal rights.

Mozza going to Iran is great because he is showing solidarity with the people, against everything the government stands for, and daring the government to stop him, as well as daring our own bigots and warmongers at home to tell us that those people dancing at his gig are backward and dangerous.

Re Canada, I personally would say to him that he could have framed his tour in oppositon to the government and I do not personally support the boycott, however, I think it;s a different situation.

 

[stephk817]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

I don't think women are treated fairly anywhere. Women in Britain earn a lot less for the same job than a man does, and in the mdeia they are treated as sexual objects. In the US it's even worse, basic rights such as abortion are under constant attack.

If you can't see the difference between the US, UK and Iranian governments treatment of women then I feel sorry for you. There isn't a woman in both countries who would face stoning for adultery. As far as pay and being a sex object in the media, they don't HAVE to accept the lower treatment. There are laws in place to deal with unequal treatment.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

ok well I apologise if I misrepresented you. I'm sure you are not in any way a racist.

I accept your apology and understand that it is difficult to express yourself properly on a forum. It's all good.

I personally don't agree with the boycott of Canada either, but I think it's a different situation. Playing in a underdeveloped country which is struggling under a dictatorship and historic oppression from the west is different from playing or not playing in Canada over the issue of animal rights.

You have to remember that animal right are the same as human rights to Mozzer, though.

Mozza going to Iran is great because he is showing solidarity with the people, against everything the government stands for, and daring the government to stop him, as well as daring our own bigots and warmongers at home to tell us that those people dancing at his gig are backward and dangerous.

I don't think that it will really help at all, actually. I doubt it will even happen, as much as I doubt that any ladies will be "dancing at his gig".

Re Canada, I personally would say to him that he could have framed his tour in oppositon to the government and I do not personally support the boycott, however, I think it;s a different situation.

That's our Moz, though. He goes big or he doesn't go at all.

 

[Vulgar Picture]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

If you can't see the difference between the US, UK and Iranian governments treatment of women then I feel sorry for you. There isn't a woman in both countries who would face stoning for adultery. As far as pay and being a sex object in the media, they don't HAVE to accept the lower treatment. There are laws in place to deal with unequal treatment.

hahaha, nice use of imagery, you could work for Murdoch's other publication, The Sun.

I didn't say I couldn't see the difference, I said that I don't think women are treated fairly anywhere. Because they are not.

There may be laws on paper in place which grant women legal equality in the west, but in reality women are not treated equally and never have been. And as cuts in government services for childcare, asylums for beaten women, labour legislation to keep an eye on bosses, healthcare to look after the older members of families, etc., are all cut, then the exploitation of women and the burden on them to care for the family which the state refuses to help out with, all get worse.

so yeah, the enemy is at home, it's not the evil muslims.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

As far as pay and being a sex object in the media, they don't HAVE to accept the lower treatment.

Not to mention the fact that most of the women portrayed as "sex objects" in the media choose to be seen that way. No one's forcing them to do it. I hardly think anyone holds a gun to Pamela Anderson's head.

 

[Vulgar Picture]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

I accept your apology and understand that it is difficult to express yourself properly on a forum. It's all good.

cool

That's our Moz, though. He goes big or he doesn't go at all

without a doubt.

I do feel sorry for his Canadian fans though.

Not to mention the fact that most of the women portrayed as "sex objects" in the media choose to be seen that way. No one's forcing them to do it. I hardly think anyone holds a gun to Pamela Anderson's head.

yeah but teenage girls growing up seeing those images every day didn't choose for it to be that way. if you look at the rates of eating disorders in our societies it's definitely a real problem. women are judged as sexual objects in our society, men aren't.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

hahaha, nice use of imagery, you could work for Murdoch's other publication, The Sun.

I don't see why you'd say that, it's a very real picture of a very real situation that happens way too often.

I didn't say I couldn't see the difference, I said that I don't think women are treated fairly anywhere. Because they are not.

There may be laws on paper in place which grant women legal equality in the west, but in reality women are not treated equally and never have been. And as cuts in government services for childcare, asylums for beaten women, labour legislation to keep an eye on bosses, healthcare to look after the older members of families, etc., are all cut, then the exploitation of women and the burden on them to care for the family which the state refuses to help out with, all get worse.

If by that you mean government assistance, i.e. food stamps, they are many programs out to help them. I should know, I used to be on one. Healthcare is a problem for many in America, not just for women. I have problems with healthcare, but I've never thought for a second that it was because I was a woman. It's not the government's job to watch over your boss to see if he's being a perv, it's your job to report him if he acts that way.

so yeah, the enemy is at home, it's not the evil muslims.

We should count ourselves lucky to not have the problems those poor women in Iran have.

 

[Cassius]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

yeah but teenage girls growing up seeing those images every day didn't choose for it to be that way. if you look at the rates of eating disorders in our societies it's definitely a real problem. women are judged as sexual objects in our society, men aren't.

So there's no such thing as a male model, then? Or a male actor? Or a male porn star? Women never look at a man and judge his looks?

Teenage girls will always have body issues. I'm sure there were women in the 1950's who had body issues, way before Star's "Best Beach Body" issue was around.

 

[stephk817]

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

hahaha, nice use of imagery, you could work for Kurdoch's other publication, The Sun.

I didn't say I couldn't see the difference, I said that I don't think women are treated fairly anywhere. Because they are not.

There may be laws on paper in place which grant women legal equality in the west, but in reality women are not treated equally and never have been. And as cuts in government services for childcare, asylums for beaten women, labour legislation to keep an eye on bosses, healthcare to look after the older members of families, etc., are all cut, then the exploitation of women and the burden on them to care for the family which the state refuses to help out with, all get worse.

so yeah, the enemy is at home, it's not the evil muslims.

As a single woman here in the good ol' USA I have the freedom and opportunity to do whatever I want to do without having to worry about getting a male relative to be my chaperone.

It's not about the evil muslims, it's about FREEDOM. There are choices for me as a single woman that single women in Iran don't have and won't have for years. *IF* I was a skanky slut, I could go out and do anyone I wanted without getting a death sentence. I don't but I have the freedom to be one.

As far as other social services, there are programs available for those in need. I've worked in social services for years. From experience, the non-profit faith based organizations did a much better job overall because of the personal involvement. I live in a state that has a decent health care service for those in financial need. If there is an emergency, the law states that people must receive medical treatment.

I also believe that there's nothing wrong with families taking care of their own. Loved ones tend to be better caregivers.