people, things and events that shaped Moz

[imogen11]

The Goat
I loved your descriptions of the school system.

I'm a little younger than you, but got put through 12+ and shoved in the equivalent type of school you did. We didnt get all abilities in our classes, as we were "streamed" by ability the day we arrived and divided by gender for some subjects too. Caning was regular and public caning - an event!

Sphinx, that's a hot picture of morrissey in your avator. Yum

 

[nightandday]

Hmm...does anybody else out there suspicious in regards to those 'postcards'. I've always assumed they're fake.

If they are fake, then someone must have done a terrifyingly good job in imitating Morrissey's handwriting, writing style and sense of humour, not to mention making the effort to make all those little drawings imitating Ludus record sleeves. That would be one hell of a Moz impersonator.

 

[nightandday]

Because it's a little intrusive to his parents. Morrissey has made the choice to be a public figure, his parent's haven't. And most of the discussion around his parents seems to be in terms of criticising them. He's not close enough to his Dad, therefore his Dad must be a bad parent. He's too close to his Mum, therefore his Mum must be a bad parent.

I think sometimes we forget these are real people we are talking about. People who can get hurt.

So all of Morrissey's friends and employees have made the choice to be public figures, too? OK then... We know that public figures are not real people and can't get hurt...

 

[nightandday]

Interesting about the schools. I guess I would have gone to a normal comprehensive had I been born English. The schools I attended were crammed with about 30-35 kids in a class and ranged from the bright to the prison-bound. 50-60% of the students in my large, state-funded school-- our graduation ceremony was held in a football stadium-- were written off completely. Most of the reading was standard fare (Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, early Joyce and the like) although one or two maverick teachers snuck in some more dangerous fare on the side.

Sounds like Morrissey's reading list, aside from some more obscure authors like Radclyffe Hall, was fairly common. People in this thread have said that it's not the influences per se, but what we make of them that defines us. True in a general sense, but I've always thought Morrissey's literary tastes were not so unusual and in some respects even conventional. It's nice to have this partially confirmed, allowing (as I do) that his reading habits then and now are still largely a mystery.

His literary tastes, as much as we know about them, certainly seem quite conventional - with a few exceptions, most of the authors he names as his favourite are English, from 19th century, and in most cases, part of the curriculum (although I can't blame him, I love English 19the century literature). You can't get more conventional in your literary tastes than liking Dickens, can you. I wonder if he likes any prose that strays significantly from the traditional realistic narrative. His music tastes are a lot more versatile.

I was glad to find out that he liked horror movies as a teenager. He didn't talk about it in public as he talked about the kitchen sink dramas and "Corronation Street", I suppose he thought it was childish or didn't fit in with the image he was creating for the band.

 

[Christine]

I promise I'll talking about this book but 'By Grand central station I sat down and wept' is a good example of his taste differing from traditional narrative (just because it's in the style of poetry prose). And its his 2nd most quoted work, after ofcourse a taste of honey

 

[nightandday]

I promise I'll talking about this book but 'By Grand central station I sat down and wept' is a good example of his taste differing from traditional narrative (just because it's in the style of poetry prose). And its his 2nd most quoted work, after ofcourse a taste of honey

Yes, that one is one of the few exceptions. I've read it too... but to be honest, I'm not sure if I liked it, I found it a bit too cheesy at times.

What poets does he like, besides John Betjeman and Edith Sitwell?

I was shocked when he said he didn't like Sylvia Plath's poetry, but that he did like Anne Sexton's... and then named "Daddy" as Sexton's poem he liked!!

 

[Dougal]

Yes, that one is one of the few exceptions. I've read it too... but to be honest, I'm not sure if I liked it, I found it a bit too cheesy at times.

What poets does he like, besides John Betjeman and Edith Sitwell?

I was shocked when he said he didn't like Sylvia Plath's poetry, but that he did like Anne Sexton's... and then named "Daddy" as Sexton's poem he liked!!

Am being pedant here but, if I remember correctly, it was a caller to a radio show who mistakenly named 'Daddy' as their favourite Sexton poem. Might be wrong! Don't know if anyone's mentioned his bent for A E Housman? Incredibly poignant verse if conventional in form. Like all great poetry, it expresses the seemingly unexpressible. Oh, and Marianne Moore.

 

[Worm]

He's also mentioned Stevie Smith and (I think) Emily Dickinson.

I'm very surprised he's never admitted to liking Philip Larkin.

Speaking of radio shows, he once had this exchange with KROQ's Richard Blade:

R: Which writers do you admire?
M: [Can't remember first part. Probably Delaney and Wilde.]...and George Eliot.
R: Eliot, right, right.
M: Do you know his work?
R: Yeah, sure.
M: He's a woman.
​

 

[Dougal]

He's also mentioned Stevie Smith and (I think) Emily Dickinson.

I'm very surprised he's never admitted to liking Philip Larkin.

Speaking of radio shows, he once had this exchange with KROQ's Richard Blade:

R: Which writers do you admire?
M: [Can't remember first part. Probably Delaney and Wilde.]...and George Eliot.
R: Eliot, right, right.
M: Do you know his work?
R: Yeah, sure.
M: He's a woman.
​

Yes, have always felt a very strong Larkin/ Morrissey connection, Louis MacNeice in a certain light too. I recall that KROQ interview- he set the trap somewhat too easily, I squirmed a little. He also exhibited that delightfully contradictory tic of his by stating flatly that he doesn't read fiction then moments later saying that if he was to go out and buy a book it would be Eliot or one of the Brontes. Was having a Nancy Friday phase too.

 

[nightandday]

Am being pedant here but, if I remember correctly, it was a caller to a radio show who mistakenly named 'Daddy' as their favourite Sexton poem. Might be wrong! Don't know if anyone's mentioned his bent for A E Housman? Incredibly poignant verse if conventional in form. Like all great poetry, it expresses the seemingly unexpressible. Oh, and Marianne Moore.

I'm very glad to report, after checking the transcript, that you are right. All I can say in my defense is that transcripts can be confusing sometimes. I'm just not willing to forgive him for not liking Plath. In "Hanging with MTV" he was asked if he liked Plath and Sexton, and said he did like Sexton, "and as for Sylvia Plath, I think that her life was far more interesting than anything she ever wrote. Don't you think so?" No, I don't. It's annoying when people go on about her life all the time. I wouldn't give a damn about her if she hadn't written poems like "The Colossus", "The Stings", "Daddy", "Mirror", "The Applicant", "The Hanging God" etc.

However, there are similarities between "Daddy" and an earlier poem by Sexton, called "My Friend, My Friend" - maybe that's why the listener got confused (if that's an excuse).

And I forgot to say that Morrissey also likes Maya Angelou.

 

[Dougal]

I'm very glad to report, after checking the transcript, that you are right. All I can say in my defense is that transcripts can be confusing sometimes. I'm just not willing to forgive him for not liking Plath. In "Hanging with MTV" he was asked if he liked Plath and Sexton, and said he did like Sexton, "and as for Sylvia Plath, I think that her life was far more interesting than anything she ever wrote. Don't you think so?" No, I don't. It's annoying when people go on about her life all the time. I wouldn't give a damn about her if she hadn't written poems like "The Colossus", "The Stings", "Daddy", "Mirror", "The Applicant", "The Hanging God" etc.

However, there are similarities between "Daddy" and an earlier poem by Sexton, called "My Friend, My Friend" - maybe that's why the listener got confused (if that's an excuse).

And I forgot to say that Morrissey also likes Maya Angelou.

Feel even more of a pedantic turd now. But thanks for looking it up. Agree with you on MTV clip- felt there was something unnecessarily harsh and dismissive in his summing up of Sylvia P. Clearly the woman who asked the question treated his answer as rhetorical- or more likely was too paralysed with nerves to argue. Then Moz is never one to stand on ceremony- rather delights in giving it a good kicking.

 

[Christine]

Yes, that one is one of the few exceptions. I've read it too... but to be honest, I'm not sure if I liked it, I found it a bit too cheesy at times.

I think though it probably was this sincere love/obsession, plus I think 'cheesyness' comes generally hand in hand with poetry/ prose plus it's just so skillfully written with such unusual images& ideas for it's time that although I didn't like the story, I liked the way it was written.
I love Plath's poetry. Yes she had an intreguing life but apart from basic facts the real reason we know that, is because her poetry was a 'mirror' into her own perspective and thoughts. I've felt Sexton's poems never had the grasp of Plaths

 

[Christine]

Moz has often said that his adoration of James Dean came more from Dean as an icon than his work. I was just wondering if it's the same for Wilde. I heard Moz talk about Wilde's brilliant wit and persona but never his work.
On things that influenced Moz James Dean is definitly uo there, just as how it gave him such a good understanding of iconography and now we have the gladolis

 

[Danny]

Moz has often said that his adoration of James Dean came more from Dean as an icon than his work. I was just wondering if it's the same for Wilde. I heard Moz talk about Wilde's brilliant wit and persona but never his work.
On things that influenced Moz James Dean is definitly uo there, just as how it gave him such a good understanding of iconography and now we have the gladolis

There's a quote from Morrissey where he spells out exactly why he loves Wilde. He said it was the fact that Wilde used simple easy to understand language that attracted him. As a working class kid with little education it was the first time he realised that you didn't have to be an esoteric intellectual using long complicated words to be a great writer. So it gave him some hope.

 

[nightandday]

He said that he loved everything Wilde ever wrote, so I think he does love Wilde's work.

He once mentioned Wilde's short story that he particularly liked - "The Nightingale and The Rose".

<spoiler>










It's about a nightingale who sacrifices her life to help a student win the girl he loves, by creating a perfect red rose that he thinks he has to give the girl to show her his love. To do this, the nightingale has to sing and sing while the thorn is piercing her chest and her blood is dripping over the rose. The story is both romantic and cynical, as it turns out that the girl doesn't appreciate the gift and the student didn't really love her all that much, and that both of them are rather shallow people - and nightingale's sacrifice for other people's love was for nothing.</spoiler>

 

[imogen11]

If they are fake, then someone must have done a terrifyingly good job in imitating Morrissey's handwriting, writing style and sense of humour, not to mention making the effort to make all those little drawings imitating Ludus record sleeves. That would be one hell of a Moz impersonator.

There's a readily available Morrissey Handwriting Font online. The rest could be faked.

 

[floodzonex]

Well i diidnt know about his attachment to his mother. How do you know about it? Is he still connected with mum that much or are you talking about some early period?

I can't speak for now but in the mid 90s when something didn't go his way he was on a plane to his mother quickly

 

[floodzonex]

I'd say the biggest influence on lyrics at least is film

Obviously it was with the Smiths (Billy Liar, A Taste Of Honey most of all)
I always though ti t funny that many times he's said he became aware of the film before the book

He still quotes here and there from films he likes but not as much since '97

 

[nightandday]

There's a readily available Morrissey Handwriting Font online. The rest could be faked.

That guy, Robert Mackie, supposedly photocopied the letters and sold the copies in the late 1980s. (Obviously, I can't vouch for that, it's just what the person who posted them on the Internet claims.)

There is always a possibility that it could be a fantastic forgery, but I don't see any reason to believe it is. The style and content are typical Moz. And I would be more surprised if none of his former pen-pals had ever tried to sell the letters he sent them at the time when he wasn't famous.

 

[Kewpie]

In August This charming man. was asking us if we're interested in reading Morrissey's letters to a girl called Julie.



It doesn't look fake nor hoax, but unfortunately he stopped posting and disappeared.