Which has been the best decade for Morrissey songs?

[Worm]

Where is this 'dull' music?

Sorry, that's just my opinion. I wouldn't waste ten seconds listening to instrumental versions of most of the tracks on his last three albums. I would gladly listen to instrumental versions of "Viva Hate" and most of his other solo albums; as for The Smiths, I've often enjoyed listening to soundcheck versions of tracks that were played without vocals. In fact I prefer the Moz-less "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out" from an '86 soundcheck to the version on "Live at Earl's Court".

Yes, of course music is a foundation for the 'Voice' of a song, but as such it is a vital framing device and not something to just be churned out. You have to give him credit...

I do. Maurice separated the music for a moment, and I was responding to that. I think the music works very well in tandem with Morrissey's vocals and, in some cases, the songs as a whole are better than they would've been had there been more intrusive backing music. I like that Morrissey is putting his voice out front. He should. It's a beautiful voice.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

If I can be arsey and seld indulgent for a moment...

80s - Viva Hate; 90s - Vauxhall; 00s - Quarry.

As for the quality - there have been two ongoing zeniths - the songwriting of both Stephen Street and Alain Whyte. When they're not involved the music has taken a dive, aside from the odd Boz gem. The words are still high quality, though, come on, you have to admit that some have become a bit samey over recent albums. But that's just me.

Peter

I call 'Yes, I Am Blind' to the stand.

 

[Uncleskinny]

I call 'Yes, I Am Blind' to the stand.

Good song, but Gilbert O'Sullivan wrote it. Oh yes.

Peter

 

[Mr Reynolds]

Good song, but Gilbert O'Sullivan wrote it. Oh yes.

Peter

But where words are concerned, nothing rhymed...

 

[lainey]

I call 'Yes, I Am Blind' to the stand.

I love that song.

 

[Uncleskinny]

But where words are concerned, nothing rhymed...

As you well know, Mr Moz keeps dragging us back, and I for one struggle to understand why sometimes..."And all too soon I did return, just like a moth to a flame ".

Peter

 

[Mr Reynolds]

As you well know, Mr Moz keeps dragging us back, and I for one struggle to understand why sometimes..."And all too soon I did return, just like a moth to a flame ".

Peter

There'll Be Blood On The Cleaver Tonight...Mark my words...

 

[spacehopper]

Speaking of which (and sorry to lower the tone), does anyone remember Mark Miwurdz ? I think I saw him about 25 years ago and I'm still under the surgeon's knife to straighten my toes.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

I was mopping up blood thinking about this thread when a thought struck me - how we often tend to talk as if what we think is pretty solid opinion, immutable and concrete. I've noticed that my relationship with various pieces of music have often changed over time. I found 'I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now' and 'On The Streets I Ran' pretty dull at first and tended to skip them. But they gradually weaved their mojo over me and I now really appreciate them, eager to listen when they pop up on my ipod. So, its not just the music or the song per se but our own temporal orbit around them that makes a vast difference to our appreciation of material...

I'll get on with my mopping...

 

[Maurice E]

Sorry, that's just my opinion. I wouldn't waste ten seconds listening to instrumental versions of most of the tracks on his last three albums. I would gladly listen to instrumental versions of "Viva Hate" and most of his other solo albums; as for The Smiths, I've often enjoyed listening to soundcheck versions of tracks that were played without vocals. In fact I prefer the Moz-less "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out" from an '86 soundcheck to the version on "Live at Earl's Court".

It's an interesting issue. The Smiths/Viva Hate/Bona Drag songs all have wonderfully composed and complete pieces of music with very strong chord sequences and extremely melodic guitar and keyboard lines.
When one of the lesser known Bona Drag co-writers (possibly Armstrong) was first asked to compose a song for Moz he said (words to the effect of) "I thought I should write a piece of music that stood up on its own before the singing was added, like Johnny Marr did with the Smiths". Think he may have been referring to November Spawned a Monster.
It seems like an obvious way to approach a song but presumably it just isn't a very easy thing to do...

 

[Uncleskinny]

I was mopping up blood thinking about this thread when a thought struck me - how we often tend to talk as if what we think is pretty solid opinion, immutable and concrete. I've noticed that my relationship with various pieces of music have often changed over time. I found 'I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now' and 'On The Streets I Ran' pretty dull at first and tended to skip them. But they gradually weaved their mojo over me and I now really appreciate them, eager to listen when they pop up on my ipod. So, its not just the music or the song per se but our own temporal orbit around them that makes a vast difference to our appreciation of material...

I'll get on with my mopping...

You have to have a pretty good musical ear to hear a song or the first time and realise that it's a classic. I do not have that. What I do appreciate is skill, and skilful tunesmithery or wordsmithery. I've just compiled a list of what I think are Johnny's sparkiling moments, and there's no denying that The Headmaster Ritual, Back To The Old House or Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me are works of stunning genius. Likewise, I Am Hated For Loving from Alain, Hairdresser On Fire From Stephen Street - I'm being really subjective here, but these, to me, are songs that stand the test of time as classy examples of great songwriting. As for wordsmithery - is there a match for Morrissey? Possibly Neil Hannon, Bob Dylan, Joe Strummer, Joni Mitchell...I'm sure there's others to be added. There are impenetrable songs like This Charming Man, but songs that speak, like Will Never Marry, Used To Be A Sweet Boy - I find it hard to believe that anyone can look at these and say they're not touched. But that's just me.

Peter

 

[Mr Reynolds]

Good post Peter.

Another thought I had was how do we actually come to 'like' a song. Or anything in particular for that matter? How much of that relationship is 'decided upon' by us and how much is 'non volitional' or 'imposed' by our prejudices? Associations that colour our opinion of the whole? A certain tune or rhythm played in a certain mode or a feel that reminds us of something else...usually unconsciously?

I send you all to sleep or repeat dialling Dignitas saying this because I was thinking and I realised how much I consciously decide I want to like a song. When I hear a new Morrissey composition I WANT to enjoy it. And if I am not bowled over immediately, I certainly strive to consciously learn to like or even love it. I struggle to think of a track I would wholeheartedly condemn as worthless. Even Sweetie-Pie.

Am I still ill?

 

[Uncleskinny]

Good post Peter.

Another thought I had was how do we actually come to 'like' a song. Or anything in particular for that matter? How much of that relationship is 'decided upon' by us and how much is 'non volitional' or 'imposed' by our prejudices? Associations that colour our opinion of the whole? A certain tune or rhythm played in a certain mode or a feel that reminds us of something else...usually unconsciously?

I send you all to sleep or repeat dialling Dignitas saying this because I was thinking and I realised how much I consciously decide I want to like a song. When I hear a new Morrissey composition I WANT to enjoy it. And if I am not bowled over immediately, I certainly strive to consciously learn to like or even love it. I struggle to think of a track I would wholeheartedly condemn as worthless. Even Sweetie-Pie.

Am I still ill?

I loved Sweetie Pie even when it was shit. Even when Mikey hadn't released his version.

Anyway, just an observation before I go to bed with Private Eye - you're becoming more, well, not verbose, but intellectually, your postings are a cut above. I think it's about time I came to see you, ply you with beer and curry, and give you some Northern education to dull that burgeoning wit. I will.

Peter

 

[bored]

And yet.

The Smiths
Hatful of Hollow
Meat Is Murder
The Queen Is Dead
The World Won't Listen
Strangeways Here We Come
Rank
Viva Hate
Most of the "funny little singles" that comprise Bona Drag

I'm in awe just reading that list.

And he really didn't do much in 80-82.. this list could be even bigger. Crazy. Easily got my vote.

 

[Worm]

And he really didn't do much in 80-82.. this list could be even bigger. Crazy. Easily got my vote.

And if somebody ever shoots those Coronation Street scripts he wrote in those years, his decade will have been completely full!

 

[Dave]

I'd like to choose the 90's, but Viva Hate and ALL OF THE SMITHS?

 

[Billtwasreallynowt]

1980s, closely followed by 90s, then 00s....

I don't think he intends to ram the newer stuff down our throats MozE (See 'Moz' thread )

I think its more an effort not to just be a nostalgic act. If its accepted that his current output isn't good enough, I don't think he would want to be onstage night after night performing 'the good old days'

Basically, he doesn't solely want to be his own tribute act......which incidently, I would very much enjoy!

 

[ummagumma]

the 80's obviously.

 

[skull]

Many of those who think Morrissey's best decade was the eighties with the Smiths, think so because it's just a habit. I'm not so fond of the Smiths even though I own every record they made. But I'm a huge fan of Morrissey solo work, that really, really changed my life. Please, try to be more objective, and you'll find that even the last records are GREAT records. I love them all in different ways, actually, maybe not just Kill Uncle, that I really consider having great songs but badly produced. There are many songs by The Smiths I really can't stand listening to or don't manage to rate well. Just my opinion.

 

[This charming man.]

I didn't read the 'all the Smiths' stuff part, so I need to change my vote to the 80's, now.