What the h... is wrong with music today?

[David]

Qvist,

And I humbly submit that I made it quite clear that I haven't followed contemporary music closely for a while, and that I was giving my impressions based on checking out a relatively limited number of bands. If my impression so far should be proven wrong, believe me, no one will be happier than me.

Then the whole premise of your question is ludicrous. How can you ask such a pointed question while simultaneously admitting you don't have a wide perspective on the field?

I do however know a good handful of the bands on this list, and they do lead me to the conclusion that pop music is stagnant.

Let's be clear about this means. There's quite a bit of difference between liking something, and thinking it's stagnant. I don't like hip-hop, for instance. But I know it's an extremely alive, innovative genre, with lots of new material being constantly churned out that critics and fans alike love. So I wouldn't call it stagnant. The sheer mass of diverse new pop music being produced cannot possibly be called stagnant. It's impossible.

 

[the judge]

you should try the electric soft parade. my favourite band of this decade. great melodies. i don't know if some obscure band wrote songs like that in 1987, i'm not a music encyclopedia.
i can't quite see what's the deal with the killers, they're no better than coldplay. 1 good album and that's it. they just became unexplicably big. like the f***ing arctic monkeys. did their last single chart?

i see moz's point, but then again he's released an album of crap called years of refusal. and he's anything but innovative. but he's loved all the same.

i dunno, did conversations like this take place in mid seventies as well, like 'today bands lack something'? in 5 years we'll be nostalgic about amy winehouse.

 

[Dario_Western]

It's because each successive generation is more watered down than the previous one, plus changes in technology and production techniques are partly to blame.

The music industry as well as most other industries have become sterile, too politically correct and lost the 'edge' that made the likes of Elvis, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, T-Rex, and The Sex Pistols so good.

There isn't much in music from this decade that has really fascinated and interested me because I've frankly heard it all before from previous decades. Bands like The Veronicas, La Roux, McFly, Franz Ferdinand are good but they are really just rehashing music and styles that have been born from the golden decades of rock'n'roll (i.e. the 60's - 80's).

Plus bands have become a lot more disposable than they were in the past. About the only 'new' band from this decade that any casual music listener can recognise is Coldplay.

Added to that anti-establishment types are becoming rather passe, nobody is really shocked by what Marilyn Manson says or does anymore and Horrorcore rap is on the way out after one of its chief songwriters got sprung last week for killing a Christian minister and his family.

There's no other way to go but repetition. Go and watch the film "American Graffiti" and listen to the song "American Pie" because both those pieces of work are the REAL story of rock'n'roll music.

 

[fuckfrankie]

Well, but then the OP wasn't about mainstream music.

it didn't seem to specify and i was just throwing that out there...

Who's being nostalgic? On the contrary, I'm loooking hard for current acts to like, eager to be pleased. I'm not expecting 1977 all over again. It's just that what I'm finding doesn't impress me.

you kinda are...passive aggressively. i don't think i've ever seen someone start a thread on how good music is at the moment at any point in the history of the internet. not that you have to take responsibility for that, but it's hard not to lump your sentiments in with every other jaded music fan. this is coming from a jaded music fan who has noticed an improvement in music in the last few years. maybe you're just not looking in the right places?

Foals and Friendly Fires, thanks, they go on the check-out list.

good luck!

 

[Worm]

An enormous amount of good music is being produced now. What we have to understand is that the structure of popular music has dramatically shifted -- it is no longer as monolithic an entity as it once was. The proliferation of the internet and other new media is principally responsible for this. The result is a kind of intense splintering and simultaneous mixing of genres -- there is just a startling amount of types of music now, with very specific audiences for each one. And those types often blur the old distinctions between genres. There is something out there for everyone. If you restrict yourself to modern rock radio, as I did, then yeah, music is going to suck. But use the internet. Use blogs. Use independent publications. You'll see.

I don't think you were replying to me, but I'll jump in and say that I also tried to talk about the need to recognize how some of the major changes in the production and consumption of music force us to re-define pop.

However, pop is many things besides a three-minute single. If the fundamental mechanics of music consumption have changed, as you accurately describe, it doesn't just mean there are new ways to get the same fix. (Remember Morrissey calling music a drug?) The "drugs", so to speak, change too. If you follow the logic all the way you reach the absurd idea, implied in many of these "new technology" debates, that all "content delivery systems" are merely different channels for the same substance. An MP3 of "A Day In The Life" gives you the same Beatles-content as the original LP, the theory goes. Not true.

I'm not arguing that everything's shit. To the contrary, for a person born in the 90s, the Aughties might be every bit as exciting a time for new music as the Sixties or Seventies. A big portion of the music I listen to now was recorded in the last decade and I like it. But there's been a change, and older listeners like me (and clearly a few others in this thread) can spot it, even if we can't put our finger on why, exactly, we prefer the older era to the present. It's natural and unavoidable, and probably exactly what John Peel experienced (as mentioned above).

I'm not much of a music theorist but I'll put this forward. Leaving aside the question of whether or not contemporary music is "good" or "bad", if we just try and isolate the quality of "vitality" in today's music, it seems to me that music is good when it reflects the new conditions of production and consumption-- borderless hybridity coupled with radical disposability, often to the point of rendering irrelevant the "artist" who composed the work-- and almost always mediocre when it attempts to adopt older forms in any way, even archly.

To give one example of what I mean-- and this will surely impress anyone who knows of my undying love for New Order-- although for me "Blue Monday" is genius and Kylie Minogue is God-awful, Kylie's mash-up of "Blue Monday" and "Can't Get You Out of My Head" was more vital and contemporary-sounding than any track on New Order's "Waiting For The Sirens' Call" album. I don't give the credit to Kylie so much as the producer who created the track to exploit both New Order and Kylie in a clever but ruthless, unsentimental way for a disco track that had a shelf-life of six minutes. Kylie's producer was in tune with the times in a way New Order (and Kylie herself) weren't.

I chose an extreme example. I don't like Kylie's song and I don't think the good stuff sounds like her. But I do think the song reflects the new realities of the pop landscape. This is why, though I do like lots of contemporary songs, I pretty much dismiss guitar-based rock as moribund. No matter what you do with it, you're still playing a guitar within a generic straitjacket. It's almost categorically impossible for an indie rock band to release an album as vital as "The Queen Is Dead". Not to say they won't be "good", or that we can't like them a lot. I'm speaking about the thrill that people like Qvist (and many of us, it seems) got from listening to music that seemed plugged directly into the culture's central nervous system. It's important that pop music have that kind of connection to the culture. Without it, the music can often be good ("fluent", as Morrissey said) but there's always a ceiling, always a limit. When I heard The Smiths I loved the music because I felt I was listening to the universe itself; when I hear the Yeah Yeah Yeahs I like the music but it's never more than the brilliant work of a few Brooklyn hipsters.

There can never be another "Anarchy In The U.K." because figuratively speaking Johnny Rotten's U.K. no longer exists-- not changed, mind you, vanished completely. In today's world, if a song like "Anarchy In The U.K." was released, Rotten couldn't speak for an entire youth culture, couldn't be railing against a single nation, couldn't even achieve anything close to the same kind of sneering nihilism. You wouldn't hear it and think, "This is a wave of anger that's going to drown the whole f***ing world, and I want to surf it". No. You'd think, "Cool, one of those neo-punk London fashion-victim art bands that DesEsseintes77 told me about in the Pitchfork discussion forum. I'll download it and check it out!"

Which is better? I don't know. I know that listeners of a certain age live in a very different world than the one they grew up in, that's all. I'm sympathetic. I've been there. The only way out is to step into the brave new world and seek out what's good, because the old days are gone and they're not coming back. Million-fueled, culture’s bonfire burns on.

 

[David]

Worm,

Interesting points. Certainly it's become seemingly impossible for rock to achieve a so-called "crossover" classic these days. The very fact that such a term exists is a sad commentary. What I mean is that very few bands to have emerged in the last, say, decade could produce a record listened to and appreciated by disparate audiences. Radiohead, whom I loathe, has done this, but they've been around a bit longer. I think the Strokes were the last to come close. Anyway, this touches upon the splintering effect I was discussing. You view this as negative, and you have every right to. I understand that. I'm 19 (and Morrissey is far and away my favorite artist) and to me the splintering effect isn't so bad.

It's a trade-off of sorts. We lose the possibility of absolute classic status for a record, but gain a proliferation of mini-classics, of records that intensely plug themselves into the consiousnesses of different groups. Merriweather Post Pavilion was this for indie and electronic; Ys and Set Yourself on Fire were this for chamber-pop; Mirrored was this for contemporary prog; For Emma, Forever Ago was this for folk; and so on. And new records by Tom Waits, Morrissey, Dylan, and other giants still thrill. So to me, the vitality of pop still cannot be denied. It has simply been fractured, and therefore multiplied. As fellow Smiths fans, surely we can all appreciate the appeal of insularity in pop music.

 

[Qvist]

Qvist,

Then the whole premise of your question is ludicrous. How can you ask such a pointed question while simultaneously admitting you don't have a wide perspective on the field?

Let's be clear about this means. There's quite a bit of difference between liking something, and thinking it's stagnant. I don't like hip-hop, for instance. But I know it's an extremely alive, innovative genre, with lots of new material being constantly churned out that critics and fans alike love. So I wouldn't call it stagnant. The sheer mass of diverse new pop music being produced cannot possibly be called stagnant. It's impossible.

Well, if anything is ludicruous, it is your extraordinary assertion that it is "impossible" to find the state of music today unsatisfactory. As many responses on this thread clearly shows. You may think it's innovative, my impression so far is the exact opposite.

And, I'm not talking of music I don't like because it's the wrong kind. I'm talking of music that belong to genres I do like. Otherwise I would not have bothered to check it out at all.

A difference between not liking something and finding it stagnant. Gee, you don't say, that would never had occurred to me. And do let's be clear about what this means. "Stagnant" was in fact a concept introduced by you into this discussion, and what that implies is an absence of development. I didn't challenge it because I assumed, overoptimistically as it turned out, that you had read the post you responded to more or less attentively and were using it as a general if not very satisfactory term to summarise my remarks. You will find however that I have not in fact criticised the music of today for failing to show development. What I have pointed to is rather a shortage of distinctiveness, passion, songwriting craft and artistic ambition, as far as I can tell.

 

[Qvist]

you kinda are...passive aggressively. i don't think i've ever seen someone start a thread on how good music is at the moment at any point in the history of the internet. not that you have to take responsibility for that, but it's hard not to lump your sentiments in with every other jaded music fan. this is coming from a jaded music fan who has noticed an improvement in music in the last few years. maybe you're just not looking in the right places?

With all due respect, I think I know better than you do what my thoughts are. It's very simple. I expect neither more nor less from current music than I do or did from any other period. If I wanted to wallow in nostalgia or expected nothing from current music, I'd just have sat around playing old records by The Fall, rather than spend hours on the internet checking out new acts in the hope of finding maybe one good thing in five attempts. Present music is just an integral part of being seriously into music, and if you neglect it for a while you will miss it. And I do. I wasn't being facetious when I wrote that I'm eager to be pleased.

cheers

 

[fuckfrankie]

With all due respect, I think I know better than you do what my thoughts are. It's very simple. I expect neither more nor less from current music than I do or did from any other period. If I wanted to wallow in nostalgia or expected nothing from current music, I'd just have sat around playing old records by The Fall, rather than spend hours on the internet checking out new acts in the hope of finding maybe one good thing in five attempts. Present music is just an integral part of being seriously into music, and if you neglect it for a while you will miss it. And I do. I wasn't being facetious when I wrote that I'm eager to be pleased.

cheers

again, being that this thread is titled "what the h... is wrong with music today" it gives the impression that you are being nostalgic. you say that you hope to find 1 good act in 5, and i say that's still a pretty good ratio. i don't think it's ever going to get any better than that unless one seriously lowers their standards and starts listening to top 40... and no one should ever do something so drastic

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

I would agree that there seems to be a slight lack of originality and artistry (particularly lyrically) in music at the moment, at least in the mainstream. However, I should think that unless you dig quite deep and really persevere in finding music that suits your tastes and expectations, it would be the same in any era.

 

[spleenhead]

I would agree that there seems to be a slight lack of originality and artistry (particularly lyrically) in music at the moment, at least in the mainstream. However, I should think that unless you dig quite deep and really persevere in finding music that suits your tastes and expectations, it would be the same in any era.

I'm with you on that one. Music isn't dead by any means.

 

[Qvist]

again, being that this thread is titled "what the h... is wrong with music today" it gives the impression that you are being nostalgic. you say that you hope to find 1 good act in 5, and i say that's still a pretty good ratio. i don't think it's ever going to get any better than that unless one seriously lowers their standards and starts listening to top 40... and no one should ever do something so drastic

Look. This is perfectly simple. It's my head. I know what's going on in there, whatever impressions you derive from the wording of the title. So, could you please take my word for it and stop telling me what I really mean?

1 in 5 is a pretty good ratio yes. The trouble is I'm not finding 1 good act in 5, am I. And that's from checking out critically acclaimed bands only (at least if we count recommendations here in that category). As for the top 40, I don't have the faintest idea what is on it. I never listen to the radio if I can help it.

cheers

 

[Dow Jones]

The Antlers

This. Very this.

 

[anon x]

"Blue Monday" is genius and Kylie Minogue is God-awful, Kylie's mash-up of "Blue Monday" and "Can't Get You Out of My Head" was more vital and contemporary-

"the new lead singer of Joy Division is Kylie Minogue "
Paul Morley.
Have you read "Words and Music: A History of Pop in the Shape of a City" ?

Here's the soundtrack "version"
"Raiding the 20th Century"
Morley and DJ Food

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ELEB1JXJ

Tracklist:
Pt 1 - Time Machine
20th Century Fox theme intro
Negativland - Downloading (Seeland)
MCSleazy / Franzie Boys - Triple Take (Half Inch Recordings)
DJ BC - Surebladi (mp3)
Danger Mouse - Encore (CD)
Wayne Butane - Elderly (Sucks Bigtime)
Big City Orchestra - Bulldog (The Beatlerape)
Jay-Z - Encore (accapella) (Roc A Fella)
The Beatles - Glass Onion (2 versions) (Apple)
Avril Plays The Beatles (mp3)
Loo and Placido - Safari Love (mp3)
Jrb - Busta vs Steptoe & Son (mp3)
Loo & Placido - Kids Will Rock You (mp3)
Braces Tower - Special Child (mp3)
Exactshit - Crazy (CDR)
Cropstar - Crazy Prado (mp3)
Tacteel vs Britney - Overprotected (CDR)
Will Smith v Mr Trick - Nod Ya Head (Boot Camp)
Osymyso - Intro inspection (Radar)
fLeXuS - It Ain’t Nothin’ (CD-R)
unknown - Spandau Fillet (mp3)
Go Home Productions - Turn Out The Light Slave And Give Me Some Rhythm (mp3)
Go Home Productions - Work It Out With A Foxy Lady (mp3)
Beyonce - Crazy In Love (poj mix) (mp3)
Skkatter - Diddy (mp3)
Wobbly - Yo Yo Yo Yoyo, Hey… (Wild Why)
Frenchbloke & Son - Sound of da S Club (CDR)
Lemon Jelly - Soft Rock (LJ)
dsico - Bille Jean Dancehall Edit (mp3)
People Like Us - Nobody Does (ubuweb mp3)
2 Many Djs - Smells Like Booty (mp3)
fLeXuS - White Love (CDR)
Evil Twin - The Lady & The Lake (CDR)
Justin Timberlake - Like I Love U (Ochre remix) (mp3)
Osymyso - Intro Expansion Pt 2 (mp3)
Go Home Productions. - Ray Of Gob (Half Inch Recordings)
Madonna - WTF? (mp3)
Player - Angel of Theft (JefAm Recordings)
Osymyso - Wegoddim (mp3)
Flashbulb - Mama Said Knock You Out (mp3)
Pt 2 - The Time Before Time
Alvin Lucier - I Am Sitting In A Room (Lovely Music Ltd)
Pierre Schaeffer - Etude aux Chemins De Fer (EMF Media)
Pierre Henry - Souffle 1 (Phillips / 21st Century Prospective Siecle)
PM - 1954 - Varese - Deserts (Columbia)
John Cage - Imaginary Landscape No.1 (Hungeroton)
William Burroughs - Origin and Theory of the Tape Cut-Ups (Sub Rosa)
Coldcut (Let Us Play LP outro) (Ninja Tune)
James Tenney - Collage no.1 (Blue Suede) (New World Records)
Marshall McLuhan - The Medium Is The Massage (Columbia)
Steve Reich - It’s Gonna Rain (Odyssey/Music of Our Time)
The Monkees - Head Opening Ceremony (Rhino)
Frank Zappa - Lumpy Gravy (Verve)
John Rydgren - Christmas Montage (Silhouette Segments)
Holger Czukay & Rolf Dammers - Boat - Woman - Song (Spoon)
Radiophonic Workshop - Major Bloodnock’s Stomach (BBC Records)
The Beatles - Revolution No.9 (Capitol)
Radiophonic Workshop - Talk Out (BBC Records)
Kenny Everett Musical Works - (acetate / mp3)
Pt 3 - Say Kids, What Time Is it?
Grandwizard Theodore & Kevie Kev Rockwell - Military Cut - Scratch Mix
(Animal Records)
Grandwizard Theodore Speaks (Hip Hop Slam)
Grandmaster Flash in Fab 5 Freddy’s kitchen from Wildstyle (DVD rip)
Monica Lynch interviews Grandmaster Flash for WFMU (mp3)
(Orig.) Big Apple Productions Vol. 2 - Genius At Work (J & T Records)
The Art of Noise - Close (To The Edit) (ZTT)
Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five - Adventures On The Wheels of
Steel (Sugarhill)
Cold Crush Brothers vs The Fantastic 5MCs (Music of Life)
Malcolm McLaren - Buffalo Gals - (Charisma)
Double D & Steinski - Lesson 2 (The James Brown Mix) (Disconet)
Double D & Steinski - The Payoff Mix (aka Lesson 1) (Disconet)
Big Apple Productions - Genius At Work Vol. 2 (J & T Records)
Mr. K (aka Danny Krivit) - Rock The House (T.D. Records Inc.)
Double D & Steinski - Lesson 3 (The History of Hip Hop) (Tommy Boy)
Buchannan & Goodman - Flying Saucer Pt.1 (Cash Records)
Bomb The Bass - Beat Dis (Mister-Ron/Rhythm King)
Steinski & Mass Media - The Motorcade Sped On (NME)
Steinski radio interview with Jon Nelson from Some Assembly Required (mp3)
Coldcut - Say Kids, What Time Is It? (White Label)
Coldcut - Beats & Pieces (Ahead Of Our Time)
Eric B & Rakim - Paid In Full (Coldcut Seven Minutes of Madness mix)
(4th & Broadway)
M/A/R/R/S - Pump Up The Volume (4AD)
Eric B & Rakim - Micheal Jackson Got Soul (mp3)
Think Tank - Hack One (The Internet Worm mix) (Hakattack Records)
Big Apple Productions - Genius At Work Vol. 2 (J & T Records)
3D - Tommy Boy megamix (Tommy Boy)
Axel F - The Latin Rascals (Streetheat)
Arthur Baker - Breaker’s Revenge (Atlantic)
Kurtis Blow - America (Dub Mix) (Mercury)
Cindy Mizelle - This Could Be The Night (Atlantic)
Rochelle - My Magic Man (Machine Gun Dub) (Warner Bros)
Word of Mouth & DJ Cheese - King Kut (Bonus Beats) (Beauty & The Beat)
T La Rock - This Beat Kicks (Fresh Records)
Tricky Tee - Leave It To The Drums (Dub) (Sleeping Bag)
Mantronix - Bassline (Stretched) (10 Records)
Mantronix - Mega-Mix (from The Album) (10 Records)
Mantronix - Scream (Primal Scream Dub) (10 Records)
Mantronix - Mega-Mix (from Music Madness) (10 Records)
T La Rock - Bass Machine (Club Version) (10 Records)
T La Rock - Breakin Bells (Omar Santana Edit) (10 Records)
Skyywalker’s Bass Waves Mega Mixes - Mega Mix 1 (Luke Skyywalker)
Matt Black & the Coldcut Crew - The Music Maker (Ahead of Our Time)
James Brown - The Payback mix (Coldcut meets the Godfather) (Urban)
Mantronix - King of the Beats (Sleeping Bag)
Pete Smith & DJ Cesare - Beat Bytes (white label)
Dr Funnkenstein & DJ Cash Money - Scratchin’ to the Funk Pt.1 (Sound
Makers Records)
Grandmixer D.ST - American Mega-Mix (CBS)
James Brown - Payback (The Final Mixdown) (Norman Cook & DJ Streets
Ahead) (Urban)
Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince - He’s the DJ, I’m the Rapper (Jive)
DJ Shadow - Lesson 4 (Hollywood Basic Promo)
Hiroshi & Kudo feat. DJ Milo - Return of The Original Artform (Major
Force)
Derek & Clive - Records (DK re-edit) (Virgin/mp3)
De La Soul - Cool Breeze on the Rocks (Tommy Boy)
Zeb Rockski & Steiber Twins - The Revenge (B Boys Revenge ‘97) (Mzee)
Bronx Dogs - Tribute To Jazzy Jay (Death Mix) (Kontranand)
DJ Format - English Lesson (Bomb Hip Hop Records)
Dynamix 2 - Just Give the DJ A Break (Dynamix)
Beat Junkies - Scratch Monopoly Pt II (Bomb Hip Hop Records)
Mr Dibbs - B Boys Revenge (Turntable Scientifics cassette)
DJ Craze - 1st ITF chamionship set (cassette)
Invisibl Skratch Piklz - Vs Da Klamz Uv Deth (Asphodel)
The Herbaliser - Wall Crawling Flying Insect Breaks (Ninja Tune )
Cut Chemist - Lesson 6 (The Lecture) (Pickininny)
Pt 4 - Pressed For Time
Cassetteboy - Fly Me To New York (Barrys Bootlegs)
Jive Bunny & The Mastermixers - Swing The Mood (Music Factory)
Stars On 45 - Stars On 45 (?)
The Jams - All You Need Is Love (KLF Communications)
Age Of Chance - Kisspower (unreleased mix) (FON)
Negativeland - The Perfect Cut (Good As Gold) (SST)
Christian Marclay - Pandora’s Box (Organik/RecRec)
Jon Oswald - Way (Plunderphonics)
Evolution Control Committee - Rebel Without A Pause (The Whipped Cream
mix) (Pickled Egg)
Jon Oswald - Brown (plunderphonics)
Tape Beatles - Concern About (Staalplaat)
Jon Oswald - dab (Plunderphonics)
Tape Beatles - Short History of the Tape Beatles (Staalplaat)
The KLF - Rock Radio Into The Nineties and Beyond (KLF Communications)
People Like Us - Sound Escape (Solielmoon Recordings)
Negativeland - The Letter U & The Numeral 2 (acapella mix) (Seeland)
Emergency Broadcast Network - Behaviour Modification / We Will Rock You (TVT Records)
Black Helicopters - Hammered Gods (Leaf)
People Like Us - Sound Escape (Solielmoon Recordings)
Tape Beatles - Thus (Staalplaat)
Forest J. Ackerman - Music For Robots (Science Fiction Records)
Pt 5 - Time’s Up
Osymyso - Intro Inspection (Radar)
The Freelance Hellraiser - A Stroke of Genius (white label)
Girls On Top - We Don’t Give A Damn About Our Friends (Black Melody)
Kurtis Rush - George Gets His Freak On (white label)
Copywrong - Too Much Freakin’ (mp3)
Girls On Top - Being Scrubbed (Black Melody)
2 Many DJs - Dreadlock Woman (white label)
Osymyso - Pat n Peg (3 Sevens)
The Freelance Hellraiser - Got My Lovely Money (CDR)
The Freelance Hellraiser - Step On Man (CDR)
Osymyso - Intro Inspection (Radar)
Osymyso - John’s Not Mad (mp3)
Picasio - Do You Really Like It? (Barrys Bootlegs)
The Freelance Hairdresser - Marshall’s Been Snookered (mp3)
Mky - I’ve Created A Monster (mp3)
B.R.K. - JackoNim (mp3)
Mr On - Breathe, Don’t Stop (white label)
The Freelance Hellraiser - Can You Lick Shots? (CDR)
Skkatter - Madonna Is A Filthy Slut (V/Vm Test Records)
Mcsleazy - Don’t Call Me Song 2 (mp3)
Wayne Butane - Elderly (Wild Why)
Girls On Top - I Wanna Dance With Numbers (Black Melody)
Kylie - Can’t Get You Out Of My Head (Soulwax Electrosoul mix) (PIAS)
Kylie Minogue - Can’t Get You Out Of Blue Monday Live @ the Brits 2002 (mp3)
20th Century Fox theme outro

First 10 mins on youtube:



(interesting what Lennon says @ 4:45)

That's my work done for the day.Off to watch Telstar(the Joe Meek bio pic)with a nice glass of merlot and a homemade scone:bliss!

 

[Worm]

Worm,

Interesting points. Certainly it's become seemingly impossible for rock to achieve a so-called "crossover" classic these days. The very fact that such a term exists is a sad commentary. What I mean is that very few bands to have emerged in the last, say, decade could produce a record listened to and appreciated by disparate audiences. Radiohead, whom I loathe, has done this, but they've been around a bit longer. I think the Strokes were the last to come close. Anyway, this touches upon the splintering effect I was discussing. You view this as negative, and you have every right to. I understand that. I'm 19 (and Morrissey is far and away my favorite artist) and to me the splintering effect isn't so bad.

It's a trade-off of sorts. We lose the possibility of absolute classic status for a record, but gain a proliferation of mini-classics, of records that intensely plug themselves into the consiousnesses of different groups. Merriweather Post Pavilion was this for indie and electronic; Ys and Set Yourself on Fire were this for chamber-pop; Mirrored was this for contemporary prog; For Emma, Forever Ago was this for folk; and so on. And new records by Tom Waits, Morrissey, Dylan, and other giants still thrill. So to me, the vitality of pop still cannot be denied. It has simply been fractured, and therefore multiplied. As fellow Smiths fans, surely we can all appreciate the appeal of insularity in pop music.

I didn't realize you're only nineteen. I think it was the quality of your posts that threw me off.

I kid, I kid.

You have the perspective I'd imagine a nineteen-year old to have, which is that the splintering (a good word for it) has created lots of smaller classics rather than the few, big unifying classics. It's impossible that Animal Collective will ever release a "London Calling", but whereas we have one "London Calling" we might have five "MPP"s. I'd revise this by saying we will never have another "London Calling" but we might have nineteen great tracks by nineteen different bands. Either way we're on the same page. As I said above, I really don't know if this situation is better or worse. I don't understand it fully, just as you will never know what it's like to rely solely on a record shop to get your fix.

I think a day will come, maybe ten or twenty years from now, when you will be in a position to compare the new technology-- whatever it may be-- with the old technology. There will of course be an entirely different "content delivery system" in place in the future. You might be nostalgic for the days of MP3s and file-sharing. By that time, I might be nostalgic for MP3s, too. Anyway, my point is that I think some of the people writing in this thread, though they may disagree on certain points, are grappling with changes in how music is made and consumed. They're talking about a span of years and the changes therein.

Like I said, I really can't say if the new paradigm is better than the old. I will hazard a disagreement with your last line, however. In my view The Smiths did not want an insular place within the music industry, they wanted to take it over. Early on, Morrissey and Marr articulated a sweeping ambition to re-make the pop charts in the mold of The Smiths, not to carve out a little niche for themselves. So did the Sex Pistols, even if it was only to "destroy" (in reality they were art rockers, so "destroy" is meant a little ironically here). To me it doesn't matter if the ambition is realistic or not. Many bands used to form with a certain, shall we say, Napoleonic impulse which was probably no more realistic than the impulse that makes us buy lottery tickets. Many bands didn't form that way, of course, but enough did to make that era feel very different than this one. The Jam's "In The City" today sounds so distant it might as well be a battle cry from the French Revolution.

For what it's worth I think whatever healthy shape the world takes in the future-- a Utopia, if the planet survives-- will probably come from several generations of listeners who grew up listening to a "splintered" music scene rather than the hoary old Valhalla model I've described. But that will mean the great heroes have passed into a distant golden age. Music may be better off with a thousand Odysseuses but those of us who remember Achilles...

 

[Worm]

Wow, anon x, thanks for that. I can't listen/watch now but I look forward to very soon.

Paul Morley is a treasure.

 

[anon x]

Wow, anon x, thanks for that. I can't listen/watch now but I look forward to very soon.

Paul Morley is a treasure.

There's some nice stuff there(and if you haven't read that book,i think you might like it).

Oh,heard Foxbase Beta yet ?

 

[Anaesthesine]

Early on, Morrissey and Marr articulated a sweeping ambition to re-make the pop charts in the mold of The Smiths, not to carve out a little niche for themselves. So did the Sex Pistols, even if it was only to "destroy" (in reality they were art rockers, so "destroy" is meant a little ironically here). To me it doesn't matter if the ambition is realistic or not. Many bands used to form with a certain, shall we say, Napoleonic impulse which was probably no more realistic than the impulse that makes us buy lottery tickets. Many bands didn't form that way, of course, but enough did to make that era feel very different than this one. The Jam's "In The City" today sounds so distant it might as well be a battle cry from the French Revolution.

...Music may be better off with a thousand Odysseuses but those of us who remember Achilles...

There's the problem - no more visionary megalomaniacs.

The success of DIY made music smaller, no question about it; whether this is a good or a bad thing remains to be seen. In hindsight, I feel lucky to have taken that feeling of musical revolution for granted. It really seemed, for a moment there, like we were on the edge of something Terribly Important.

 

[Worm]

There's the problem - no more visionary megalomaniacs.

The success of DIY made music smaller, no question about it; whether this is a good or a bad thing remains to be seen. In hindsight, I feel lucky to have taken that feeling of musical revolution for granted. It really seemed, for a moment there, like we were on the edge of something Terribly Important.

Have you read Kristin Ross' "The Emergence of Social Space"? It's about Rimbaud and the Paris Commune of 1871. She explains that a useful conceptual model for future revolutions would be the "swarm" rather than the historical form of social revolt. It's not just an overwhelming "wave" of people but something more like modern computer code: cellularity, scalability and modularity replace traditional hierarchical movements.

The idea of the swarm was of course appropriated masterfully by the Wu-Tang Clan.

 

[Anaesthesine]

^^

Sounds like a good read, and a logical thesis in this fragmented day and age.

Somehow an incremental swarm doesn't seem nearly as romantic as a sudden wave. The meme is replacing the grand gesture; I guess it had to happen.