Morrissey and the BNP

Anaesthesine

Angel of Distemper
I know this is an unpopular subject, but help me settle a bet.

I have a business associate who flies over from Paris once a month. We usually have dinner together, and we argue for hours over everything: religion, politics, love... and Morrissey. He is a self-identified far-right conservative (in the French sense), and I am a lefty-liberal (in the American sense).

We are both big Moz fans, but obviously we don't see eye-to-eye on most other things. Last night, the subject of Morrissey came up, and he was arguing that Moz was a racist, a nationalist, and a border-line fascist; I, of course, was arguing the other side. My friend, who claims to know quite a bit about Morrissey, said that he was once a member of the British National Party, and did a fund-raiser for them. I, of course, said that was bull***t, and Morrissey would do nothing of the kind. We shook hands and made a bet.

I will be seeing my friend next week, and I want to know: who has their facts straight?

On a side-note, my business associate has a friend who is planning to write a book on Morrissey, so I would love to disabuse him of these ridiculous notions.
 
I think if Morrissey had ever associated himself with the BNonceP then that would've certainly come out in the wash (which it hasn't), considering quite few elements in the press have it in for him...or have in the past.
 
I know this is an unpopular subject, but help me settle a bet.

I have a business associate who flies over from Paris once a month. We usually have dinner together, and we argue for hours over everything: religion, politics, love... and Morrissey. He is a self-identified far-right conservative (in the French sense), and I am a lefty-liberal (in the American sense).

We are both big Moz fans, but obviously we don't see eye-to-eye on most other things. Last night, the subject of Morrissey came up, and he was arguing that Moz was a racist, a nationalist, and a border-line fascist; I, of course, was arguing the other side. My friend, who claims to know quite a bit about Morrissey, said that he was once a member of the British National Party, and did a fund-raiser for them. I, of course, said that was bull***t, and Morrissey would do nothing of the kind. We shook hands and made a bet.

I will be seeing my friend next week, and I want to know: who has their facts straight?

On a side-note, my business associate has a friend who is planning to write a book on Morrissey, so I would love to disabuse him of these ridiculous notions.


You win the bet!

Morrissey once - 1994? - a little controversially, suggested extreme parties like BNP should be given a chance to express their views - there being a law about freedom of speech and all - and this was misinterpreted by people who like to misinterpret these things. Probably via a chain of Chinese whispers this is what your associate heard a twisted version of...
 
You win the bet!

Morrissey once - 1994? - a little controversially, suggested extreme parties like BNP should be given a chance to express their views - there being a law about freedom of speech and all - and this was misinterpreted by people who like to misinterpret these things. Probably via a chain of Chinese whispers this is what your associate heard a twisted version of...


Yes, Morrissey meant that if you're intelligent enough you could distinguish right and wrong, no need for gagging idiots like BNP.

However, as OS pointed out his remarks were misiterpreted.
 
I agree w/ Moz. Give the BNP a voice. The BNP's website is hilarious!! Here is an example they give as a warning to all Britons!!!

"No one sees red squirrels in England any more. They used to be everywhere. A symbol of the peaceful life of Native Britons. What happened?

Well, they had their own immigration problem. Their cousins the grey squirrel came to stay, proved to be more aggressive than the red squirrel, and took over their territory.

Soon the red squirrel was pushed out, now it can only be found on places like Brown Sea Island, places where the grey squirrel could not go.

Once it gained entry to England, it was just a matter of time before it wiped out the red squirrel It breeds faster than the red squirrel.
"
 
Your friend says silly things. Feed him to a lion and forget all about it.
 
Why do they use a picture of two gay dudes on their site, though:
joinus.jpg
 
Please read earlier related discussion of the subject in here.


I'll add actual Morrissey's quote in an interview about BNP later.


Also suggest to read Is Morrissey Conservative?

Thanks Kewpie, that's just what I needed - I'm going to print out that quote. :)

The argument is not over whether Morrissey is conservative - he's too complex to pigeonhole (which is why I love him). The argument was over actual membership in the BNP, and whether he did a fundraiser for them. :rolleyes:

My friend wanted to bet cash, and I refused on principle. Oh well, maybe I can get another dinner out of him. :D
 
I swear you're just bored and making this up to fill some time.
Cash? Dinner? Just imagine you slept with him get over it.
 
The Smiths final live gig at Brixton was an Anti Apartheid fundraiser.
Hardly the actions of a BNP member:rolleyes:

Jukebox Jury
 
Re:How to analyse Morrissey's political position

Also I'd like to quote our marvel Worm's great analysis:



Well, in trying to work out this question you have to concede, from the beginning, that Morrissey is really closer to apolitical. Most of his viewpoints about society are motivated purely by his emotions and little else. He's against cruelty to animals so he's against systems of exploitation and those in the government who support them, for example, but I don't find his musings on the English and American governments to be well informed or political as such. His comments seem more like kneejerk reactions based on his great sensitivity to suffering and oppression. Mind you, I'm not saying this invalidates his opinion, just that it is not "political" in the sense that most people think of the term.

Having said that, I believe that if Morrissey could choose his ideal form of government it would be something like libertarianism-- but I also think he would be fine in other forms of government. In fact, if society were properly ordered, I think he probably wouldn't even mind living under a monarchy. This is because he is a cultural conservative. Vicious attacks on modern culture can come from the right as often as they do from the left, and such attacks, when not of the usual, obvious, stereotypical character-- that is, patriarchal, Judeo-Christian, Western etc-- are often assumed to be left-leaning by default. But often they come from essentially right-leaning perspectives that bear some of the earmarks of leftist positions, such that it is assumed Morrissey would be for socialism and other left causes.

In fact, I think Morrissey's primary concern is culture, and any society which did not oppress its citizens and allowed and rewarded the absolutely free expression of its artists is to be preferred over all others, no matter what form it takes. In a negative sense, Morrissey's dislike of society comes from its cruelty and oppression. But in a positive sense, Morrissey is attracted to-- well, what's the word he most often associates with things and people he likes? They're "interesting". And "interesting" is pretty broadly defined and open-ended. If the queen were glamorous, free-thinking, and tasteful enough to be "interesting" I don't think he'd mind the monarchy one bit.

When you couple this with his evident love of the past, whether post-war Manchester or fin-de-seicle London or whatever, I think it's clear that he looks backward with fondness at an idealized past and yet, at the same time, recognizes the limitations of that past. In a funny way, he wants both the Elizabeth Smarts of the world and universal emancipation for women. You can't have both. "Emma Bovary hit by lightning" (as Angela Carter called the woman in "By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept") doesn't exist in a perfectly equal, truly enlightened society. This is why his position is difficult and complicated, but in the end, in my opinion, if he could have the Manchester of his perfect, idealized past, but one in which women were equal to men and both could create their own sexual identiity, he'd take it, regardless of who was in power or what system was in place.

Most of his other opinions are similarly divided. On the subject of sexuality, for instance, he's mostly been rather conservative insofar as people's relations with each other. He sees a sort of cheapness prevalent in people's crude understanding of sex. But he also wants full freedom to experiment. On the subject of race, he is not a racist and wants everyone in the world to be treated fairly. But he also identifies with nationalism. This is why any attempt to paint him as a gay martyr or sneering racist are fundamentally wrong, yet not so easy to refute when people bring up the strong gay content in the imagery or some of the ambiguous lyrics like "Bengali In Platforms". They're wrong, but the case isn't open and shut.

I'm not arguing that it's as simple as saying "Morrissey is a right-winger". I'm arguing that Morrissey is a cultural conservative of a special kind, an artist, and his opinions pretty much conform to the type that goes back centuries. And before anyone brings up "The Soul of Man Under Socialism", they ought to consider that that essay, above all others, validates what I am saying. Wilde's conception of a socialist Utopia privileges many culturally conservative artistic viewpoints without adopting any hardline Marxist positions. (If I'm not mistaken, the title alone would cause most serious Marxists to reject it.) People assume Wilde was socially radical but he was a decorated scholar of Classics from Trinity and Oxford who venerated society even as he assaulted it with his devastating epigrams. He was a proud Irishman who dropped his accent within days of arriving at Magdalen. This doesn't make him a hypocrite. It makes him complicated, just like Morrissey.

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=65591&page=2#38 :clap::clap::clap:
 
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They just pretended it was AA and actually gave the money to the BNP. That's what my imaginary friend says.
 
I swear you're just bored and making this up to fill some time.
Cash? Dinner? Just imagine you slept with him get over it.

I'm not making it up: my friend (very handsome, by the way :D) is a history-geek, just like me. We argue about everything, every time I see him. He is also a staunch Catholic and anti-science; you should hear the ruckus when I start going after the Vatican. :rolleyes:

You're right, however; is there anything more pleasurable than a good, long, deep intellectual give-and-take with an attractive man over a good meal? I think not. :D I don't want to sleep with him (I've got a beauty at home), but I'll share a meal any time.
 
...and his name would have been on the BNP members address list that was accidentally on purpose published on the interweb the other week eh ;)
(Well I don't remember seeing it after much scanning of anyone in and around Gtr Manchester to see if I knew anyone ;) :D) *











*which thankfully, I don't!
 
...and his name would have been on the BNP members address list that was accidentally on purpose published on the interweb the other week eh ;)
(Well I don't remember seeing it after much scanning of anyone in and around Gtr Manchester to see if I knew anyone ;) :D) *









*which thankfully, I don't!


not necessarily;)
 
Morrissey is not BNP.....if he had been that is his business. He just loves his heritage too much....that does not make him a fascist.
 
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