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ALLIE WALLS

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Jake Walters in 8th Wonder Shocker!! (Score:1)
Time to end the debate about the two Jakes (although I don't suppose the evidence I produce will stop some people deluding themselves).

There has only ever been 'one' Jake, as I'm sure Moz would attest to.

There was a photo credited to Jake Owen on the More You Ignore Me cover and this has been where the confusion has started. Why Owen? I don't know maybe it is his middle name (like saying 'photo by Steven Patrick')or it's his mother's maiden name or whatever.

However what I think everyone can agree on, is that the Jake photographed with Moz during his Vauxhall signings is the Jake who got a 'very special thanks' on the album and whom about much speculation has been written.

Well that guy is definately called Jake WALTERS.

Don't believe me? Well the most shocking discovery I have uncovered is that he was the original drummer in Patsy Kensit fronted pop combo Eighth Wonder!!!

He drummed on their first hit 'Stay with Me' and if you check out the video on DailyMotion you'll see him there in the back so to speak flailing away with long hair (what is it with Moz and drummers?)

Also check out the track 'Loser in Love' on Youtube. It is a montage of a B-side that some fan has put together. If you can bear listening to the song long enough freeze it on 1.23 into the track. Check out the dude on the far right, put your thumb over the top of his head to cut out the crappy hairdo and hey presto! You've got the same (albeit much younger) Jake photographed with Moz circa 1994. Same beady eyes and ponty nose.

Now we also know that Jake Walters, the same Jake Walters went on to be the band Big Hard Excellent Fish with Josie Jones. They wrote 'Imperfect List' a favourite track of Mozzy's.

How do we know it's the same Jake as the guy from Eighth Wonder? Because the NME ran a photo of him and Josie Jones in the very issue that they covered Moz's Vauxhall signings in. They even ran the article explaing to fans who may be wondering, that Moz's new best mate Jake was in the band BHEF. (They didn't mention his earlier effort with Eighth Wonder though and I don't blame them).

Again the guy in the photo with Josie Jones is the SAME Jake as pictured with Moz and the same Jake as pictured in early promo shots of Eighth Wonder.

Check out the credits on BHEF and it is JAKE WALTERS not Jake Owen whose name is in the brackets.

If in doubt just follow the photos it's the same guy all the way through form Eighth Wonder to the 1994 sigings.

Much has been made of him being a former boxer but I'm not sure where that really came from. Maybe he boxed a bit as an amateur but he hardly looks like he did much professionally. His nose for one is far too unscathed for him to have gone far (some fans may think I'm joking about this but as a big time boxing fan I'm deadly serious; he just hasn't got enough wear and tear on his face to have been a vetern pro). You must also remember that Moz was going through a real tough guy phase at the time, knuckle dusters and lager and purpotrating himself as hanging out with a 'former boxer' may have been better for his image than to announce he was hanging out with former Eighth Wonder drummer!

As for his supposedly chequered past, well as I say a drummer in Eighth Wonder is about as chequered as you can get!

I figure after his association with Moz he may have gone on with his photography. After all Bryan Adams has gone on to have a respected career as a photographer (far better than those awful songs of his)and I think has even 'shot' Morrissey. Helena Christensen now works primarily as photographer and we all know that after fronting Ludus linder went on to publish a book of beautiful Morrissey pictures so why not Jake Walters?

Some others have also pointed out that Jake Walters is the son of a respected artist Ian Walters and therefore can't posibly be the Jake in question. So? Maybe he got a few tatoos, cut his hair short, did some amateur boxing and then formed a couple of dodgy groups. It's called rebellion, some kids do it, as I pointed out in an earlier post take Domino Harvey as a prime example (terrible film unfortunately).

Certainly if he had wanted to explore his photography he would have had the right connections.

Anyways peeps go and enjoy those Eighth Wonder videos and have a giggle at the young Mr Jake WALTERS.

As I always say, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.........it's usually the drummer from Eighth Wonder!!!!

the artful roger -- Thursday February 07 2008, @11:10PM (#295218)
 
It's more believable than the "mirror trick" theory about the photo in the archive of jakewalters.com.
 
Methinks journalists and fans alike just saw the short haircut and made all sorts of assumptions about this Jake guy. A lot of prejudice being revealed. Much as journalists had been quick to label Morrissey's band as "thugs" because they had rockabilly haircuts and cockney accents.

As far as I know Morrissey has never spoken about Jake, so the boxer story didn't come from him. Nor did the story about him being an addict/drug dealer. Shows the danger of repeating rumours on the internet.
 
Those Kensit songs are insufferable!

It's been a debate for years, but I always had my doubts about the Two Jakes (pun intended), if for no other reason than what are the bloody odds of two different british guys named Jake hanging around Moz at the *exact* same time his career, not before or after. Silly to have thought otherwise but there it is...

Here's even more proof that I posted on the Mojo thread about Morrissey's greatest hits posterior shot:

"Despite the alias "Jake Owen" cropping up once or twice, the "Two Jakes" are in fact one and the same. This has now been proven as video footage and photos including the "PA" Jake (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gpClg8PJMg4) have been matched to the Jake Walters that appears in a group photo of British professional photogs that which can been seen at the National Portrait Gallery."
 
I agree with that as far as people speculating what type of relationship they had, but Morrissey is inviting it a bit by bringing up old photos (including the now infamous posterior shot) and bringing up Jake's name in credits again.

Anyway, sorting out whether the photographer and PA were one and the same has nothing to do with Morrissey's privacy.

Morrissey said recently that we are all reporters. I bet he wished we weren't detectives too and gave him more privacy.
 
I agree with that as far as people speculating what type of relationship they had, but Morrissey is inviting it a bit by bringing up old photos (including the now infamous posterior shot) and bringing up Jake's name in credits again.

Anyway, sorting out whether the photographer and PA were one and the same has nothing to do with Morrissey's privacy.

If he wants to use the photographs, he has to credit the photographer. Why should he restrict what photos he uses just because people will spread gossip? To be honest, I expect he probably finds it all very amusing.
 
They were obviously fairly erm...private shots, not pro photo sessions paid for by a record label.

I'm sure if Moz wanted to run them without credit, Mr. Walters would've agreed.

But I too think that he can run any photo he wants. I have no problem with the Morrissey shot of the year. I was amazed about how over the top people went about it. I agree with the one theory that it's sort of his jibe at the whole Greatest Hits release. He's not releasing it by choice, as a lot of people seem to think.

If he wants to use the photographs, he has to credit the photographer. Why should he restrict what photos he uses just because people will spread gossip? To be honest, I expect he probably finds it all very amusing.
 
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Those Kensit songs are insufferable!

It's been a debate for years, but I always had my doubts about the Two Jakes (pun intended), if for no other reason than what are the bloody odds of two different british guys named Jake hanging around Moz at the *exact* same time his career, not before or after. Silly to have thought otherwise but there it is...

Here's even more proof that I posted on the Mojo thread about Morrissey's greatest hits posterior shot:

"Despite the alias "Jake Owen" cropping up once or twice, the "Two Jakes" are in fact one and the same. This has now been proven as video footage and photos including the "PA" Jake (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gpClg8PJMg4) have been matched to the Jake Walters that appears in a group photo of British professional photogs that which can been seen at the National Portrait Gallery."

Hey king Leer,

As you probably already know from previous posts on this subject we both agree about the validity of 'Two Jakes'.

You make an interesting point about the unlikely nature of 2 Jakes knowing Moz at the exact same time.

But lets take that a step further, would it also be safe to acknowledge that both jakes DISAPPEARED from view at the same time?

As far as I know no Jake Walters photos exist of Moz post 1994 early 1995,surprise surprise the EXACT same time that Jake Owen also disappeared.

The more you apply logic to this the more obvious it becomes.
 
Exactly. Obviously Jake Walters didn't disappear as a photographer -- he became a lot more famous, actually. But once his connection to Moz ended, so did the photos.

Whatever the reason, it's interesting that Morrissey has gone back and mined those archives.



Hey king Leer,

As you probably already know from previous posts on this subject we both agree about the validity of 'Two Jakes'.

You make an interesting point about the unlikely nature of 2 Jakes knowing Moz at the exact same time.

But lets take that a step further, would it also be safe to acknowledge that both jakes DISAPPEARED from view at the same time?

As far as I know no Jake Walters photos exist of Moz post 1994 early 1995,surprise surprise the EXACT same time that Jake Owen also disappeared.

The more you apply logic to this the more obvious it becomes.
 
But lets take that a step further, would it also be safe to acknowledge that both jakes DISAPPEARED from view at the same time?

As far as I know no Jake Walters photos exist of Moz post 1994 early 1995,surprise surprise the EXACT same time that Jake Owen also disappeared.

The more you apply logic to this the more obvious it becomes.

maybe the two Jakes ran off together
 
Jake Walters in 8th Wonder Shocker!! (Score:1)
Time to end the debate about the two Jakes (although I don't suppose the evidence I produce will stop some people deluding themselves).

There has only ever been 'one' Jake, as I'm sure Moz would attest to.

There was a photo credited to Jake Owen on the More You Ignore Me cover and this has been where the confusion has started. Why Owen? I don't know maybe it is his middle name (like saying 'photo by Steven Patrick')or it's his mother's maiden name or whatever.

However what I think everyone can agree on, is that the Jake photographed with Moz during his Vauxhall signings is the Jake who got a 'very special thanks' on the album and whom about much speculation has been written.

Well that guy is definately called Jake WALTERS.

Don't believe me? Well the most shocking discovery I have uncovered is that he was the original drummer in Patsy Kensit fronted pop combo Eighth Wonder!!!

He drummed on their first hit 'Stay with Me' and if you check out the video on DailyMotion you'll see him there in the back so to speak flailing away with long hair (what is it with Moz and drummers?)

Also check out the track 'Loser in Love' on Youtube. It is a montage of a B-side that some fan has put together. If you can bear listening to the song long enough freeze it on 1.23 into the track. Check out the dude on the far right, put your thumb over the top of his head to cut out the crappy hairdo and hey presto! You've got the same (albeit much younger) Jake photographed with Moz circa 1994. Same beady eyes and ponty nose.

Now we also know that Jake Walters, the same Jake Walters went on to be the band Big Hard Excellent Fish with Josie Jones. They wrote 'Imperfect List' a favourite track of Mozzy's.

How do we know it's the same Jake as the guy from Eighth Wonder? Because the NME ran a photo of him and Josie Jones in the very issue that they covered Moz's Vauxhall signings in. They even ran the article explaing to fans who may be wondering, that Moz's new best mate Jake was in the band BHEF. (They didn't mention his earlier effort with Eighth Wonder though and I don't blame them).

Again the guy in the photo with Josie Jones is the SAME Jake as pictured with Moz and the same Jake as pictured in early promo shots of Eighth Wonder.

Check out the credits on BHEF and it is JAKE WALTERS not Jake Owen whose name is in the brackets.

If in doubt just follow the photos it's the same guy all the way through form Eighth Wonder to the 1994 sigings.

Much has been made of him being a former boxer but I'm not sure where that really came from. Maybe he boxed a bit as an amateur but he hardly looks like he did much professionally. His nose for one is far too unscathed for him to have gone far (some fans may think I'm joking about this but as a big time boxing fan I'm deadly serious; he just hasn't got enough wear and tear on his face to have been a vetern pro). You must also remember that Moz was going through a real tough guy phase at the time, knuckle dusters and lager and purpotrating himself as hanging out with a 'former boxer' may have been better for his image than to announce he was hanging out with former Eighth Wonder drummer!

As for his supposedly chequered past, well as I say a drummer in Eighth Wonder is about as chequered as you can get!

I figure after his association with Moz he may have gone on with his photography. After all Bryan Adams has gone on to have a respected career as a photographer (far better than those awful songs of his)and I think has even 'shot' Morrissey. Helena Christensen now works primarily as photographer and we all know that after fronting Ludus linder went on to publish a book of beautiful Morrissey pictures so why not Jake Walters?

Some others have also pointed out that Jake Walters is the son of a respected artist Ian Walters and therefore can't posibly be the Jake in question. So? Maybe he got a few tatoos, cut his hair short, did some amateur boxing and then formed a couple of dodgy groups. It's called rebellion, some kids do it, as I pointed out in an earlier post take Domino Harvey as a prime example (terrible film unfortunately).

Certainly if he had wanted to explore his photography he would have had the right connections.

Anyways peeps go and enjoy those Eighth Wonder videos and have a giggle at the young Mr Jake WALTERS.

As I always say, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.........it's usually the drummer from Eighth Wonder!!!!

the artful roger -- Thursday February 07 2008, @11:10PM (#295218)

Could you put this in bullet points please?!?!?:eek:
 
i have always thought it obvious there was only one real jake

the eighth wonder thing seems real enough , people make mistakes

the big hard excellent fish thing is a logical next step and the guy took some photos of morrissey proved to be good and went on to have success


there is another clear way to find out the truth ... email him and ask , his details are on his website as are some good pics of morrissey
 
Don't want to hear about bloody Jake.:mad:Who ever or whatever he was he's done and dusted.
 
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