Non-Brits views on his quintessentially English Lyrics

snapyou

snapyou

Humdee,dumdee,homocide
Just wondered what those from outwith the UK think of Mozzers's more quintessentially English lyrics/songs?

Songs like Munich Air Disaster 1958,Suffer Little Children,Margaret on The Guillotine , among others deal with matters very close to the British collective memory/psyche.

Or even lyrics which include references to Newport Pagnell,Carlisle
Dundee, Humberside,Euston ?

In my opinion,only those who've lived in the UK can REALLY appreciate them to their fullest...but would like to know other's opinions.
 
snapyou said:
Just wondered what those from outwith the UK think of Mozzers's more quintessentially English lyrics/songs?

Songs like Munich Air Disaster 1958,Suffer Little Children,Margaret on The Guillotine , among others deal with matters very close to the British collective memory/psyche.

Or even lyrics which include references to Newport Pagnell,Carlisle
Dundee, Humberside,Euston ?

In my opinion,only those who've lived in the UK can REALLY appreciate them to their fullest...but would like to know other's opinions.
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im 26 and from the US so munich air disaster does not move me at all and in fact I don't really dig it. I undetstand it was a tragedy and all but well Pol Pot killed 1.7 million cambodians and I don't see any songs about that anywhere.
If it makes you feel better I feel equally indignant about any 9/11 songs that came out in the US, I know moz didnt write that song to make money, but by jove the US ppl who wrote 9/11 songs certainly did.
 
bogdana said:
im 26 and from the US so munich air disaster does not move me at all and in fact I don't really dig it. I undetstand it was a tragedy and all but well Pol Pot killed 1.7 million cambodians and I don't see any songs about that anywhere.
.
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I guess this is what I'm getting at:there are SO many references in Moz's lyrics that , i believe,only those from the Uk and maybe even of a similar age can really truly "get"

I mean i can appreciate Bruce Springsteen but not to the same extent from those from New Jersey and so on..

OR..am i talking nonsense?
 
You may be right. Because I'm a non-Brit I might never fully understand some of his lyrics but that doesn't mean that I couldn't love them. For example "Margharet On The Guillotine", I have never lived in UK and I'm too young to even remember the days when Margharet was the PM, so I cannot truly "get" Morrissey's anger, but I do know enough about her to find the song amusing.

The themes Morrissey uses are universal, so on the other hand I don't think one has to be a Brit to really appreciate his lyrics.
 
As an American, I'm not the least bit put-off by the numerous British references in Morrissey's lyrics -- just the opposite. I've always been fascinated by English people and culture in particular.

I *still* don't know what Busby Babes are though :)

P.S. I agree with Jossu, it's the humanity and emotion that people are relating to deeply in Morrissey's lyrics.
 
snapyou said:
I guess this is what I'm getting at:there are SO many references in Moz's lyrics that , i believe,only those from the Uk and maybe even of a similar age can really truly "get"

I mean i can appreciate Bruce Springsteen but not to the same extent from those from New Jersey and so on..

OR..am i talking nonsense?
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You're not talking nonsense. The Springsteen comparison is apt.

But the gap in understanding is minor in most cases. Listeners who don't live in New Jersey get Springsteen perfectly well. They just don't get Springsteen the way people from Asbury Park do. There's a distinction, but it doesn't put non-Garden Staters completely in the dark.

The same is true of Morrissey. Englishness plays a big role in his writing, but where does this argument go, really? I can say that as a male I understand him better then women, but a gay man can say he understands Morrissey better than I do. Or perhaps I could tell a younger fan that I understand Morrissey better than she does because she was born the year "Hand In Glove" was released, but she can counter that she lives in Salford and I still say "That costs thirty quids". And what about English fans? Do Southerners "get" Morrissey like Northerners do?

I'm not discounting the point completely, but I don't think it's an issue. Whatever references I don't understand right away I can easily learn. English culture is not the impenetrable mystery it's made out to be (and I love the fact that most of us first heard the term "quintessentially English" in an Australian radio interview). That said, no, I don't for a minute imagine that I "get" Morrissey the way English listeners do. Doesn't make me insecure, doesn't make me wonder what I'm missing. There's enough.

How do you feel about ROTT, despite not being an Italian? Doesn't really matter, right?
 
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Mars_Rover said:
I *still* don't know what Busby Babes are though :)

.
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They were a group of young footballers who played for Manchester United in the late '50s and the manager of the team was a Scotsman called Matt Busby. They were regarded as England's greatest football team and were mainly young guys(hence the babes).On returning from a game in Germany their plane crashed,in Munich, and killed 8 and injured more.
It was deemed a very great national tragedy at the time (think along the lines of Princess Diana's death)
I'm sure if you wikipaedia it there will be lots more there than i've just given you.
 
Worm said:
Englishness plays a big role in his writing, but where does this argument go, really? I can say that as a male I understand him better then women, but a gay man can say he understands Morrissey better than I do.

I'm not discounting the point completely, but I don't think it's an issue. Whatever references I don't understand right away I can easily learn. English culture is not the impenetrable mystery it's made out to be (and I love the fact that most of us first heard the term "quintessentially English" in an Australian radio interview). That said, no, I don't for a minute imagine that I "get" Morrissey the way English listeners do. Doesn't make me insecure, doesn't make me wonder what I'm missing. There's enough.

How do you feel about ROTT, despite not being an Italian? Doesn't really matter, right?
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Your points are valid but I'm not talking so much about his lyrics more so of those songs that refer to UK events such as the Munich Air Disaster or the Moors Murderers which are ingrained in the UK psyche.
 
Worm said:
I love the fact that most of us first heard the term "quintessentially English" in an Australian radio interview).
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What interview was that..have i unconsciously quoted someone else?
 
snapyou said:
Your points are valid but I'm not talking so much about his lyrics more so of those songs that refer to UK events such as the Munich Air Disaster or the Moors Murderers which are ingrained in the UK psyche.
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Every nation has their own traumas. I may not truelly understand what the Moors Murders did to the psyche of Brits as a nation but then again, you wouldn't truelly understand how traumatic the Lake Bodom murders ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Bodom ) were to Finns.
 
snapyou said:
Your points are valid but I'm not talking so much about his lyrics more so of those songs that refer to UK events such as the Munich Air Disaster or the Moors Murderers which are ingrained in the UK psyche.
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And now, because of "Suffer Little Children", the Moors Murders are ingrained on my psyche, too. Not in the same way, of course. But great artists take the local and the particular and make them into the universal and the general, and that's what Morrissey does.

I don't know where you got "quintessentially English" from but it's a cliche that seems to have made the rounds in Morrissey circles-- crops up here a lot, or so it seems-- and a possible source is from a 1985 Australian radio interview with Morrissey, an interview which everyone of a certain age has probably heard because for a long time it was one of the few interviews that was commercially available. Because of nervousness the poor man can't spit out the word. Morrissey has to help him. The question referred to "Meat Is Murder" being 'quintessentially English', and whether that was an obstacle for some fans, and Morrissey answered that no, it didn't really put people off the record.
 
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jossu said:
Every nation has their own traumas. I may not truelly understand what the Moors Murders did to the psyche of Brits as a nation but then again, you wouldn't truelly understand how traumatic the Lake Bodom murders ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Bodom ) were to Finns.
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This is true,so would a song about the Lake Bodom murders have more resonance for you than for me?
Definately yes .
Likewise,SOME of Moz's songs mean much more to Brits.
 
Worm said:
And now, because of "Suffer Little Children", the Moors Murders are ingrained on my psyche, too. Not in the same way, of course. But great artists take the local and the particular and make them into the universal and the general, and that's what Morrissey does.

I don't know where you got "quintessentially English" from but it's a cliche that seems to have made the rounds in Morrissey circles-- crops up here a lot, or so it seems-- and a possible source is from a 1985 Australian radio interview with Morrissey, an interview which everyone of a certain age has probably heard because for a long time it was one of the few interviews that was commercially available. Because of nervousness the poor man can't spit out the word. Morrissey has to help him. The question referred to "Meat Is Murder" being 'quintessentially English', and whether that was an obstacle for some fans, and Morrissey answered that no, it didn't really put people off the record.
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Agree with that first paragraph.
As for the "quintessentially English" it's a term long used WAY before Morrissey appeared on the cultural radar.
 
jossu said:
Every nation has their own traumas. I may not truelly understand what the Moors Murders did to the psyche of Brits as a nation but then again, you wouldn't truelly understand how traumatic the Lake Bodom murders ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Bodom ) were to Finns.
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and the real lake bodom killer was... Hans Assmann! What a name! Argh! bad germans makin' germany look bad. poo.

in the US, in new jersey (home of bruce), we just had 3 murders and 1 survivor, similar setup to the lake bodom, strange isn't it. but the one that survived is not thought to be the killer, there were witnesses that heard shots behind the elementary school and saw men running.
 
My thoughts on all previous posts include:

I too agree that there were songs, movies etc created in the US post 9/11, that were "intended" to give us comfort, information etc, but I saw it all as a plot to make money as well. Why else would Nick Cage be the lead in the 9/11 movie?

As for feeling some sort of connection with Bruce Springstein? The Boss was perfect for the time. Jersey does have have a bad rep around here so having themes such as "Born in the USA", coming from Jersey must have been a good thing in the 80's...right? So what if "Thunder Road" was a masterpiece, it still seems silly looking back.

And finally, on a personal note, the more "British" lyrical content in Moz's songs, I think have to do with his overall sense of politics. His attention seems to have shifted west in the past few years. Is that because he lived in the states for some time? Who can say? But what I do know is he has an opinion about everything, and right or wrong I will always hear him out.
 
snapyou said:
Likewise,SOME of Moz's songs mean much more to Brits.
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Let's go back to the beginning. You said: "In my opinion,only those who've lived in the UK can REALLY appreciate them to their fullest".

Are you saying that non-British fans appreciate and understand the songs too, but that there are certain Morrissey songs which British fans appreciate and understand more fully? Are we talking about the distinction between "understanding" and "fullest possible understanding"?

Or are you saying that there are some songs which can be accurately interpreted and fully appreciated only by British fans, and fans in the rest of the world don't really "get" them at all?
 
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Skinner said:
And finally, on a personal note, the more "British" lyrical content in Moz's songs, I think have to do with his overall sense of politics. His attention seems to have shifted west in the past few years. Is that because he lived in the states for some time? Who can say? But what I do know is he has an opinion about everything, and right or wrong I will always hear him out.
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I've always found it humorous that moz shames the US for thinking they're the world, yet he has had some very me-oriented "I am the world" type of quotes, hee hee hee. Well, I guess it takes one to know one!
 
bogdana said:
I've always found it humorous that moz shames the US for thinking they're the world, yet he has had some very me-oriented "I am the world" type of quotes, hee hee hee. Well, I guess it takes one to know one!
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Oh come now. "All You Need Is Me" is the "We Are The World" of the 00's.
 
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