How do feel about Mike Joyce
- Thread starter bored
- Start date
anotherordinaryboy
Cheeky Scamp
Good drummer....bad, bad man.
Above-average drummer, and entirely justified in suing for his 25% share. Sure, he and Andy are probably are a bit dumber than your average bear and may or may not have been totally ignorant of how they were getting screwed, but a band is a band (as opposed to a star + band, or a star alone). Johnny & Moz obviously get the songwriting credits and royalties, but every member of a band should get an equal share of the performance & ticket sales. Compare other bands: do you think that Mick & Keith receive the lion's share of performance royalties for The Stones? The Beatles split their performance & sales equally. In fact, can anyone think of another example of a Smiths-like business arrangement?
bored
not bitter but bored
I thought of this poll because of the off-topic threads that are talking about mozwa.. and one of Morrissey's complaints has been the supporters here of Mike Joyce.
I think that Dale Hibbert states he knew the band was Moz and Marr from the get go shows that what M/M are claiming has some credibility.
I don't know if all that stuff about Joyce trying to seize assets of Morrissey's family are true but they probably are because Morrissey made such a public statement about it that Joyce would have responded by now.
I also think its interesting that Joyce acts like nothing happened. At least in the footage I've seen, he does.
I think that Dale Hibbert states he knew the band was Moz and Marr from the get go shows that what M/M are claiming has some credibility.
I don't know if all that stuff about Joyce trying to seize assets of Morrissey's family are true but they probably are because Morrissey made such a public statement about it that Joyce would have responded by now.
I also think its interesting that Joyce acts like nothing happened. At least in the footage I've seen, he does.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Mike Joyce had a hand in making music I love, music that changed my life for the better. No matter how small or subservient his role may have been, he was a vital part of the band. This is The Smiths to me, laid out tastefully and beautifully on every record sleeve:
What they were legally or creatively is another story. When I play the songs I hear Mike loud and clear, and I appreciate him for that.
Beyond the music, I think he was justified in suing Morrissey and Marr but his behavior in seeking to extract money from Morrissey after the judgment has been indefensible. He's made a lot of money off of Morrissey and Marr and regardless of what the judge said he was due, he should have taken what he got from the settlement, even if it was less than he was owed, and quit the scene when it was apparent he could get no more. Legally that makes no sense, perhaps, but it would have been the action of an honorable man. Stories of him harrassing Morrissey and his family in England are pretty damning.
He also told me in Chat one day that he doesn't rate Stephen Morris of New Order very highly. That brought him down several rungs.
Morrissey, Voice.
Johnny Marr, Guitars.
Andy Rourke, The Bass Guitar.
Mike Joyce, The Drums.
Johnny Marr, Guitars.
Andy Rourke, The Bass Guitar.
Mike Joyce, The Drums.
What they were legally or creatively is another story. When I play the songs I hear Mike loud and clear, and I appreciate him for that.
Beyond the music, I think he was justified in suing Morrissey and Marr but his behavior in seeking to extract money from Morrissey after the judgment has been indefensible. He's made a lot of money off of Morrissey and Marr and regardless of what the judge said he was due, he should have taken what he got from the settlement, even if it was less than he was owed, and quit the scene when it was apparent he could get no more. Legally that makes no sense, perhaps, but it would have been the action of an honorable man. Stories of him harrassing Morrissey and his family in England are pretty damning.
He also told me in Chat one day that he doesn't rate Stephen Morris of New Order very highly. That brought him down several rungs.
Last edited:
Joyce, as good as he is, pales in comparison to Morris. Let me rethink my earlier statement. Just imagine New Order if they'd asked a very young Steven Morrissey to take over the vocals after Ian left the group dangling.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Ahahaha! My God, how long do you think it would have taken Peter Hook to smash a bottle on his amp and cut our man's throat clean through? Two minutes? Three?
Cheers for the "dangling" line, that was funny and brutally tasteless. I liked it.
Neal Peart is the most technically flawless drummer I've ever heard but I'd take Morris or Joyce any day of the week and twice on Sunday. As John Lydon once sneered, "I'm not interested in music".
Last edited:
Worm
Taste the diffidence
That's why Morrissey-Solo is superior. It isn't a site that kow-tows to Morrissey. Cult-like as it often seems, in the end we're not a bunch of Cambodians and ex-GIs living in a ghoulish cannibal plantation under the iron fist of a demented 'warrior poet'. I wish that site all the best and I hope it catches on with thousands of fans but I will never visit because of its title. Morrissey wouldn't approve of me. I learned to live with that certainty a long time ago. I'd rather not censor myself to please someone who doesn't give a damn about me aside from a hazy feeling of abstract gratitude. What are those wonderful lines about disappointment? "And you find/That you've organized your feelings/For people/Who didn't like you then/And do not like you now".
bored
not bitter but bored
I agree.. that is why I don't really care to participate at mozwa.. I'm not in the business of pleasing strangers... heck, I'm barely interested in the approval of people I know and love.
bored
not bitter but bored
It really depends what you are looking for in a drummer.
If you want someone who is going to lay down a steady 4/4 beat with some modest fills, Neil Peart is not your guy.
If you want someone who builds and builds on something and takes the song from point a to point b from a percussive standpoint, you are not going to be very happy with Morris or Joyce.
I'm pretty sure Peart would be very very bored if he was Morrissey's drummer.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Yes. This is the best Morrissey site on the web. Honestly, I really don't understand why Solo has a bad reputation. All big sites have their share of crazy visitors and occasional mistakes (i.e. posting stories that turn out to be nasty rumors) but this site has done Morrissey OVERWHELMING good and the negatives have been fairly minimal. The amount of adulation and love he gets on this site is remarkable. Is it really such a crime that some visitors don't scream for Joyce's head, or that David allows all kinds of news stories, flattering or not?
Last edited:
AllYouNeedIsMoz
Queen Bee
What little poking around I've done on other Moz sites leads me to be very glad I'm here. You're going to find people who actually don't all like the same exact songs for the same exact reasons. You're going to find people who stubbornly eat meat while listening to Meat Is Murder. You're going to find good and bad opinions. But hey, as someone posted last night on another thread, at least Morrissey knows about "So-Low".
As for Mike Joyce, I was indifferent until reading Morrissey's statement on True-To-You. Pretty sad.
As for Mike Joyce, I was indifferent until reading Morrissey's statement on True-To-You. Pretty sad.
Sad in what way?
Jukebox Jury
Retired
Interesting.
In the chat over the years, I have had a chat with Nelson Mandela, Roy Keane, George W Bush and Joe Strummer (about 4 months after he died).
How did you know it was the real Mike Joyce?
In answer to the original question, Mike is one quarter of the best band in the whole wide world ever (in my opinion) and on Wednesday night I had the pleasure of buying him a pint of coke (with ice) at Dry Bar in Manchester where he was DJ-ing.
It's the music I'm interested in, not the side show, hence my non participation on the poll.
Jukebox Jury
Last edited:
kissmyshadestoo
Nobody ever looks at me twice
Mike was a pretty good drummer....watching the Salford video will provide proof.
I think he deserved some $ from the band....but I think he is going above and beyond with all the crap he's pulling with Mozz. He's got enough to live comfortably...let it go! I know Andy is buds with him but I wonder if Andy ever says "what are you doing?" to him in private, knowing full well Andy has rec'd WAY less.
Sad to see the band in such a state.
I think he deserved some $ from the band....but I think he is going above and beyond with all the crap he's pulling with Mozz. He's got enough to live comfortably...let it go! I know Andy is buds with him but I wonder if Andy ever says "what are you doing?" to him in private, knowing full well Andy has rec'd WAY less.
Sad to see the band in such a state.
Agreed.
A
Alcoholic Afternoons
Guest
You should listen to Bill Bruford for technical proficiency. Try King Crimson's Three of a Perfect Pair or Discipline. Terry Bozzio was flippin' great as well.
As for Joyce, I enjoy his drumming but thousands of drummers could have been fortunate enough to have been selected by M/M and The Smiths still would have been legend. Same with Andy. The Smiths were great because of Morrissey and Marr. Competent to quality bass and drums helped, sure, but the genious was guitar/songwriting and vocals/lyrics.
IMHO, of course.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jukebox Jury
Retired
Or does Andy ever say, 'I wish I had carried on with you and collected my rightful share'?
How do you know he has enough to live on comfortably?
Jukebox Jury
I agree. 25% of performance & sales. I said before that I think they (Mike and Andy) deserved some songwriting credits, even if it was 1% each one.
Last edited:
Worm
Taste the diffidence
I don't. But it seemed legitimate at the time. Perhaps some other people can confirm or deny that it was really him, but back in 1998 or 1999 (I don't remember when exactly) it was known that he visited from time to time. I wouldn't bet my life on it having been the real Mr. Joyce but I think "The Drums" was really him. Lots of people thought so. Next time you buy him a Coke ask him.
Similar threads
