Morrissey's plagiarism...some insight please?

nugz

nugz

SUPAHSTAR!
Ok, so I'm very much aware that Morrissey gets alot of his inspiration and ideas from other things such as movies and plays and Oscar Wilde. but I'm almost halfway through reading "Songs that Saved your Life" and I'm becoming frustrated, as it seems that almost EVERY song, the author refers to an exact line or idea that Morrissey completely plagiarized. I didn't realize he was SO blatant about it. Lines from "Well I Wonder" "Still Ill" and "That Joke isn't Funny Anymore" just for example, certain lines that I've sat and listened to and thought "wow, that line is amazing, how did he come up with that?"...turns out he didnt come up with it at all!! I was halfway reading through the section on "That Joke..." and as soon as i read that the line "I've seen this happen in other peoples lives, and now its happening in mine" was word for word taken from something else, i went "ahhhh!" and threw the book down in disgust. In another part of the book (I forget exactly what song it was) but Morrissey was saying how some people were upset about a certain line that he had plagiarized, and he went on to say "well the rest of the lyrics are completely from my brain." and then the author went on to say (and im paraphrasing) "well not really, he took such and such line from THIS. and then such and such line from HERE." I'm kinda upset over this. Am I being silly? I mean, I know they say "genius steals" but cmon! Has anyone else had a similiar experience when they read this book (or other material) and discovered these things?? Please, someone make me feel better about this!!! I don't want to be disappointed in Morrissey, but I'm feeling slightly deceived. help! :( :confused:
 
my advice: don't read books like that. i made myself hate and lose belief in many lyricist upon finding how they wrote some songs that mean so much to me. in the end, what it comes down to, is how you relate to those songs and what they mean to you...i know it can be hard...but when you think about it, everything is plagarized from somewhere...and once you accept that fact, you can move on and enjoy the end result of combinations of interesting lines, messages and metaphors that Morrissey enjoyed enough to cleverly and effectively combine in his lyrics. He is by far one of the most honest lyricists out there...and I think the line he used are the ones that mean to him as much as his songs mean to you.
 
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal." -- Picasso
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." -- Isaac Newton
"Art is either plagiarism or revolution." -- Paul Gaugin
 
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Not Right in the Head said:
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal." -- Picasso
"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." -- Isaac Newton
"Art is either plagiarism or revolution." -- Paul Gaugin
Click to expand...
WittRealschuleCrop.jpg

and bad painters make holocausts -- me :o, as in i said that, not that i'm hitler or a holocaust :rolleyes:
 
check this

I don't mind knowing the source. I haven't read the book you're talking about and i don't know if they are trying to put him down, but I see it as part of his working process.
 
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nugz said:
Ok, so I'm very much aware that Morrissey gets alot of his inspiration and ideas from other things such as movies and plays and Oscar Wilde. but I'm almost halfway through reading "Songs that Saved your Life" and I'm becoming frustrated, as it seems that almost EVERY song, the author refers to an exact line or idea that Morrissey completely plagiarized. I didn't realize he was SO blatant about it. Lines from "Well I Wonder" "Still Ill" and "That Joke isn't Funny Anymore" just for example, certain lines that I've sat and listened to and thought "wow, that line is amazing, how did he come up with that?"...turns out he didnt come up with it at all!! I was halfway reading through the section on "That Joke..." and as soon as i read that the line "I've seen this happen in other peoples lives, and now its happening in mine" was word for word taken from something else, i went "ahhhh!" and threw the book down in disgust. In another part of the book (I forget exactly what song it was) but Morrissey was saying how some people were upset about a certain line that he had plagiarized, and he went on to say "well the rest of the lyrics are completely from my brain." and then the author went on to say (and im paraphrasing) "well not really, he took such and such line from THIS. and then such and such line from HERE." I'm kinda upset over this. Am I being silly? I mean, I know they say "genius steals" but cmon! Has anyone else had a similiar experience when they read this book (or other material) and discovered these things?? Please, someone make me feel better about this!!! I don't want to be disappointed in Morrissey, but I'm feeling slightly deceived. help! :( :confused:
Click to expand...

Some girls are bigger than others...
"Send me the pillow you dream on" was an old Dean Martin song late 50s early 60s

Kumo
 
In all his songs, he takes bits of pop culture (mostly British, I think) and snips them and twists them to suit his purposes. Isn't that part of his charm? The man is a walking encyclopedia of pop culture, as much as he seems to hate it. But that's not exactly plagiarism. I don't even feel it's disingenous. Which I just spelled wrong. Crap. Too tired and busy to look it up right now, sorry all.
 
Kumo said:
Some girls are bigger than others...
"Send me the pillow you dream on" was an old Dean Martin song late 50s early 60s

Kumo
Click to expand...

yes but have you heard the dean martin song...? nothing, nowhere near some girls... nowhere near....
In fact, I admire Morrissey for finding the diamond and breathing life into those words. He saw the potential and breathed life into them somehow. Dean Martins words were empty shells... when Morrissey sang them... they took on an entirely different existence.
 
Beamish said:
A Taste of Honey. As Important a novel as the Smiths themselves. You'll see why.
Click to expand...
yeah, and thats one of the things i luv about mozzy babie so
he takes bigger things, like plays, books and movies & through the crucible of his mind refines them down to their distinct unique gemlike essences :)
 
Can anyone confirm or deny that "How Soon Is Now" is a direct quote from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock?

The following dialogue occurs as Dr. McCoy is trying to hire an alien in order to get him to the Genesis planet:

ALIEN: Available ship stands by.

McCOY: Good. How soon and how much?

ALIEN: How soon is now. How much is where?

The movie came out in June 1984. "How Soon Is Now" was released in August 1984 and made its live debut in September 1984.

Coincidence?
 
Wow, you are a big geek. I thought only my husband could quote Star Trek like that!

Could be... does Morrissey like Star Trek? It's a great phrase. And again, he took a compelling combination of words and gave it a new purpose. The context is drastically different in his song. But, the timetable is very tight. How long does an album take to be remixed and whatnot?

The question is, is he a cultural magpie or a pickpocket?
 
suparni said:
yes but have you heard the dean martin song...? nothing, nowhere near some girls... nowhere near....
In fact, I admire Morrissey for finding the diamond and breathing life into those words. He saw the potential and breathed life into them somehow. Dean Martins words were empty shells... when Morrissey sang them... they took on an entirely different existence.
Click to expand...

Dean Martin far more talented vocalist... far more...
and Moz would be the first to agree and shun anyone would didn't...

Kumo
 
Oso Blanco said:
Can anyone confirm or deny that "How Soon Is Now" is a direct quote from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock?

The following dialogue occurs as Dr. McCoy is trying to hire an alien in order to get him to the Genesis planet:

ALIEN: Available ship stands by.

McCOY: Good. How soon and how much?

ALIEN: How soon is now. How much is where?

The movie came out in June 1984. "How Soon Is Now" was released in August 1984 and made its live debut in September 1984.

Coincidence?
Click to expand...

I am gonna guess coincidence... but with moz you really never know...

Kumo
 
Every artist draws inspiration from other art forms.. it just happens. It's also part of Morrissey's mystique and mythology. Those influences are as much conversation points as Wolverhampton, Finsbury Park, stage invaders, sound bites, intro music, cover songs, etc. etc. Everything is documented and blended together for this very unique experience.

"talent borrows, genius steals"
 
boyleastlikelyto said:
Every artist draws inspiration from other art forms.. it just happens.
Click to expand...
well, true, but "borrowing" lines right off is not really just "drawing inspiration". I don't have a problem with it generally as he doesn't in any way claim not to do it. I have sometimes like nugz felt a little disappointed when I've found out that the line I love is not Morrissey's, but still if it hadn't been for Moz I had never heard it so I'm pretty glad he does it after all.
 
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