Teenager Sam Holt's behaviour would leave most parents in despair - drinking, smoking, taking drugs and having sex.
But the 13-year-old's mother thinks it is 'sweet' rather than shocking.
Tracy Holt even rewards her daughter with cigarettes on the rare occasions when she does behave.



Miss Holt, 43, knows Sam drinks but is just relieved that it's not more than a couple of cans of lager a night.
And she decided not to get angry about her daughter losing her virginity at 12, instead insisting that Sam uses contraception.
Miss Holt, a jobless single mother with two other adult children, told Closer magazine: 'I don't see the point in punishing her.
'If I ground her, I'm just punishing myself because I have to put up with her in the house. Instead, I reward her good behaviour by giving her cigarettes. If she's bad, she goes without.
'She's a little comedian. I let her get away with a lot of cheek. It's sweet.'
Giving out cigarettes as a reward 'works', she insisted.
Miss Holt said: 'There are a lot worse things she could be doing.
'We've all got to die sometime. I haven't got cancer from smoking so she'll probably be all right anyway.'
Sam 'only drinks a couple of cans a night'
Miss Holt explained away her daughter's under-age sex. 'I didn't punish her,' she said. 'It wasn't a one-night stand. She had been dating the guy for a couple of weeks.
'I took her to the doctor's the next day to get her on the Pill. I've told her to use condoms as well.'
Sam admits having had four sexual partners in less than a year but said: 'I only sleep with boyfriends. I worry about getting pregnant because I don't want kids until I'm married so I always use condoms.'
The teenager claims being given cigarettes for her 15-a-day habit has helped her behaviour.
Sam said: 'If Mum tells me to tidy my room, I ignore her but if she offers me a fag, I do it.'
Miss Holt, who smokes 20 a day, also appears relaxed about her daughter's other pastimes. She said: 'Sam often hangs out with her mates on the streets and they'll drink lager and smoke pot.
'I think she only drinks a couple of cans a night, so I'm lucky she isn't a proper drunk.
'She smokes a joint every now and then. I don't think she's tried anything harder.'
Sam's record at school would also concern most parents. She has been excluded for bad behaviour more than 40 times.
Miss Holt believes her daughter began to go off the rails after her partner left the family home in Gosport, Hampshire, three years ago.
'Sam got suspended for the first time after she climbed on to the school roof,' she said.
'I shouted at her and then explained she shouldn't climb on roofs because she could fall off. I didn't know what else to do.'

Recalling the moment Sam blurted out that she had lost her virginity when she was just 12, Miss Holt said: 'I thought it was a joke, so I laughed. I was disappointed. No mother wants to know her 12-year-old is having sex but I'm glad she told me. I didn't show I was angry and just kept it to myself.'
Miss Holt blames teachers at Sam's former school for being 'too soft'. She said: 'Now she is at a special school where there are fewer kids in each class.
'Hopefully these teachers will be stricter and she will finally get the discipline that's needed.'

That's sweet. :)

It wasn't a one-night stand. She had been dating the guy for a couple of weeks.

HAHAHA. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

That's sweet. :)

Awww, definately. :)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/21/article-0-022FCA04000005DC-160_468x537.jpg

So cute.

It's like Sharon and Kelly Osbourne but without all the Chanel and Louis V.

Teenager Sam Holt's behaviour would leave most parents in despair - drinking, smoking, taking drugs and having sex.
But the 13-year-old's mother thinks it is 'sweet' rather than shocking.
Tracy Holt even rewards her daughter with cigarettes on the rare occasions when she does behave.



Miss Holt, 43, knows Sam drinks but is just relieved that it's not more than a couple of cans of lager a night.
And she decided not to get angry about her daughter losing her virginity at 12, instead insisting that Sam uses contraception.
Miss Holt, a jobless single mother with two other adult children, told Closer magazine: 'I don't see the point in punishing her.
'If I ground her, I'm just punishing myself because I have to put up with her in the house. Instead, I reward her good behaviour by giving her cigarettes. If she's bad, she goes without.
'She's a little comedian. I let her get away with a lot of cheek. It's sweet.'
Giving out cigarettes as a reward 'works', she insisted.
Miss Holt said: 'There are a lot worse things she could be doing.
'We've all got to die sometime. I haven't got cancer from smoking so she'll probably be all right anyway.'
Sam 'only drinks a couple of cans a night'
Miss Holt explained away her daughter's under-age sex. 'I didn't punish her,' she said. 'It wasn't a one-night stand. She had been dating the guy for a couple of weeks.
'I took her to the doctor's the next day to get her on the Pill. I've told her to use condoms as well.'
Sam admits having had four sexual partners in less than a year but said: 'I only sleep with boyfriends. I worry about getting pregnant because I don't want kids until I'm married so I always use condoms.'
The teenager claims being given cigarettes for her 15-a-day habit has helped her behaviour.
Sam said: 'If Mum tells me to tidy my room, I ignore her but if she offers me a fag, I do it.'
Miss Holt, who smokes 20 a day, also appears relaxed about her daughter's other pastimes. She said: 'Sam often hangs out with her mates on the streets and they'll drink lager and smoke pot.
'I think she only drinks a couple of cans a night, so I'm lucky she isn't a proper drunk.
'She smokes a joint every now and then. I don't think she's tried anything harder.'
Sam's record at school would also concern most parents. She has been excluded for bad behaviour more than 40 times.
Miss Holt believes her daughter began to go off the rails after her partner left the family home in Gosport, Hampshire, three years ago.
'Sam got suspended for the first time after she climbed on to the school roof,' she said.
'I shouted at her and then explained she shouldn't climb on roofs because she could fall off. I didn't know what else to do.'

Recalling the moment Sam blurted out that she had lost her virginity when she was just 12, Miss Holt said: 'I thought it was a joke, so I laughed. I was disappointed. No mother wants to know her 12-year-old is having sex but I'm glad she told me. I didn't show I was angry and just kept it to myself.'
Miss Holt blames teachers at Sam's former school for being 'too soft'. She said: 'Now she is at a special school where there are fewer kids in each class.
'Hopefully these teachers will be stricter and she will finally get the discipline that's needed.'

i'm interested in the title of this thread.

if the mother were black, for example, and raised her daughter as described, would you have entitled your thread, "black trash mother of the year" or, from your perspective, would the word "trash" have been redundant? :confused:

.
'Hopefully these teachers will be stricter and she will finally get the discipline that's needed.'

:o Please God!:D

I thought this was the White Trash Mom of the Year:

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/sarah_palin.jpg

Then again, if she was 16 or older this wouldn't be of any interest to anyone, would it? :confused:

i'm interested in the title of this thread.

if the mother were black, for example, and raised her daughter as described, would you have entitled your thread, "black trash mother of the year" or, from your perspective, would the word "trash" have been redundant? :confused:

Objection, Sir. That's a leading question.

I realize you are just trying to "cut to the chase" but you are making the rope too obvious.

Objection, Sir. That's a leading question.

I realize you are just trying to "cut to the chase" but you are making the rope too obvious.

it is and i was. i respectfully withdraw the question, your honour. the fact that it still seems to be quite common, i think, is an interesting point, though.

I thought this was the White Trash Mom of the Year:

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/sarah_palin.jpg


you leave Tina Fey alone :mad: OH sorry its the real palin:o

Awww, definately. :)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/21/article-0-022FCA04000005DC-160_468x537.jpg

So cute.

That girl looks like someone I know... :eek:

Good to know she only drinks a few cans a night. :rolleyes:

it is and i was. i respectfully withdraw the question, your honour. the fact that it still seems to be quite common, i think, is an interesting point, though.

I had a discussion with someone the other day about the MOBO awards. He reckoned all hell would be let loose if there was a MOWO awards. I'm inclined to agree, although I can see where the arguments about subjugation and under-representation come in. As Bart once said of Homer "He's always complaining about Whitey keeping him down." Shouldn't the same rules, rights, be for everyone?

Peter

Sam 'only drinks a couple of cans a night'


Sounds like half a person!:D

That girl looks like someone I know... :eek:

Good to know she only drinks a few cans a night. :rolleyes:

Ack! Someone that cute is going to turn into someone that ugly in about 30 years. :tears:

We have this issue where I live, too.

HIM is 100% correct. "white trash" is a racist term, but it's pretty common for racism against those perceived to be on top to be acceptable. You can say "white trash" and not be considered a racist, but if you look at where the term comes from it is definitely a culture where to be other than white is to be second class at best.

Ack! Someone that cute is going to turn into someone that ugly in about 30 years. :tears:


you think that young girl is 'cute':confused:

you think that young girl is 'cute':confused:

You don't?

You don't?

no, i am old enough to be her father:rolleyes:

Ack! Someone that cute is going to turn into someone that ugly in about 30 years. :tears:

She has porcelain doll skin, but other than that I don't think she's cute with that tracksuit and cigarette.

no, i am old enough to be her father:rolleyes:

Kee-rist, I said she's cute; I didn't say she looks boneable. Sheesh. She has the same eyes & hair as my daughter. :mad:

http://i34.tinypic.com/2r3uni9.jpg

Kee-rist, I said she's cute; I didn't say she looks boneable. Sheesh. She has the same eyes & hair as my daughter. :mad:

OKAY......lets leave it at that!

'It wasn't a one-night stand. She had been dating the guy for a couple of weeks.


:confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRdJ49ItMnc

I can't embed these things.

'It wasn't a one-night stand. She had been dating the guy for a couple of weeks.

:confused:

Don't pretend you guys don't know the difference. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRdJ49ItMnc

I can't embed these things.

:rolleyes: I'd rather my daughter be "scared to death of pickles"! :p

Has anyone seen this movie?
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/applepie7566/thirteen.jpg
Scary stuff. My girls are never leaving the house.

Has anyone seen this movie?
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/applepie7566/thirteen.jpg
Scary stuff. My girls are never leaving the house.

Yes, that's a good movie.

We have this issue where I live, too.

HIM is 100% correct. "white trash" is a racist term, but it's pretty common for racism against those perceived to be on top to be acceptable. You can say "white trash" and not be considered a racist, but if you look at where the term comes from it is definitely a culture where to be other than white is to be second class at best.

It's not overtly racist. There are undertones of it but I think think ultimately it represents a lifestyle and any sub-context is only there if you really look for it.

I had a discussion with someone the other day about the MOBO awards. He reckoned all hell would be let loose if there was a MOWO awards. I'm inclined to agree, although I can see where the arguments about subjugation and under-representation come in. As Bart once said of Homer "He's always complaining about Whitey keeping him down." Shouldn't the same rules, rights, be for everyone?

Peter

But Peter
We do have the MOWO awards.
When was the last time a black artist / band won the Mercury Prize? NME Awards? Q Awards etc etc etc.:confused:

Jukebox Jury

But Peter
We do have the MOWO awards.
When was the last time a black artist / band won the Mercury Prize? NME Awards? Q Awards etc etc etc.:confused:

Jukebox Jury

Mercury Prize:

2003 - Dizzee Rascal - The Boy In Da Corner
2002 - Ms Dynamite - A Little Deeper
1999 - Talvin Singh - OK
1997 - Roni Size - New Forms

Look - I'm not being deliberately obtuse here, I'm just saying I think it's a little insular in this day and age to have something like the MOBOs. In my opinion music should be all-encompassing. And I can't believe I looked down a list to look for people of a certain skin-colour to make a point. I'm as guility as everyone.

Peter

But Peter
We do have the MOWO awards.
When was the last time a black artist / band won the Mercury Prize? NME Awards? Q Awards etc etc etc.:confused:

Jukebox Jury


In 2003 Dizzee Rascal won Mercury Music Prize.

Ooops, Peter beat me. :o

It's not overtly racist. There are undertones of it but I think think ultimately it represents a lifestyle and any sub-context is only there if you really look for it.

Of course it's racist, Jimmy, if you accept the term "white" as a substitute for the cultural concept, "Caucasian".

You're confusing "racist" as a judgment about a person's intentions with the language itself. the truth is that you can use "racist" language without a "racial" intent, like defamatory statement or "hate speech" but the language "white trash" is inferently racist as it relates to race, and is clearly derogatory.

I am not saying that using the term is a violation of anuthing especially if this is something that you are involved with as a moderator. I'm simply saying that the words, the term, is racist, and undeniably so.

It's not overtly racist. There are undertones of it but I think think ultimately it represents a lifestyle and any sub-context is only there if you really look for it.

Does the term "White Trash" refer to any other ethnic group? No. If I was to start using the term "Mexican Trash" or "Asian Trash" I would be called racist in a heart beat.

Any term used to describe a particular race of people in a negative fashion is racist.

Case Closed

Does the term "White Trash" refer to any other ethnic group? No. If I was to start using the term "Mexican Trash" or "Asian Trash" I would be called racist in a heart beat.

i think it does refer to other ethnic groups indirectly and that it is a racist term - against black people, not whites. i don't live in the u.s.a. [it isn't an expression that i've ever heard anybody in the u.k. use (that isn't meant in an anti-american way)], so i'm not completely sure of its origins or normal usage, but i get the impression when i hear it on t.v. or wherever that the term 'white trash' is used to differentiate the people in that category from white people who are educated, not poor & have a 'normal'/'decent' 'lifestyle'. it is as though no such differentiation is necessary when talking about black people since they are presumed to be poor, uneducated & immoral etc. i could be wrong, but that's how i've always thought of it.

(i don't know if that makes sense.)

i think it does refer to other ethnic groups indirectly and that it is a racist term - against black people, not whites. i don't live in the u.s.a. [it isn't an expression that i've ever heard anybody in the u.k. use (that isn't meant in an anti-american way)], so i'm not completely sure of its origins or normal usage, but i get the impression when i hear it on t.v. or wherever that the term 'white trash' is used to differentiate the people in that category from white people who are educated, not poor & have a 'normal'/'decent' 'lifestyle'. it is as though no such differentiation is necessary when talking about black people since they are presumed to be poor, uneducated & immoral etc. i could be wrong, but that's how i've always thought of it.

(i don't know if that makes sense.)

I keep reading about Camilla having a meltdown and demanding a billion dollar divorce in my papers. Do you know about that?

The phrase "white trash" isn't racist, it's classist.

I keep reading about Camilla having a meltdown and demanding a billion dollar divorce in my papers. Do you know about that?

camilla who?

The phrase "white trash" isn't racist, it's classist.

that's a good point.

isn't it both, though?

camilla who?

horsey face, bad wig?

horsey face, bad wig?

what kind of papers do you read, dave?

you're black, aren't you?

that's a good point.

isn't it both, though?

No. It's more likely to be used by whites than blacks, I think. It's definitely just classist.

horsey face, bad wig?

:confused: You've seen me? Where?

i think it does refer to other ethnic groups indirectly and that it is a racist term - against black people, not whites. i don't live in the u.s.a. [it isn't an expression that i've ever heard anybody in the u.k. use (that isn't meant in an anti-american way)], so i'm not completely sure of its origins or normal usage, but i get the impression when i hear it on t.v. or wherever that the term 'white trash' is used to differentiate the people in that category from white people who are educated, not poor & have a 'normal'/'decent' 'lifestyle'. it is as though no such differentiation is necessary when talking about black people since they are presumed to be poor, uneducated & immoral etc. i could be wrong, but that's how i've always thought of it.

(i don't know if that makes sense.)

How is White Trash racist against Blacks? Now, White N----- that is a derogatory term towards blacks.

that's a good point.

isn't it both, though?

If Another ethnic group was to call me "white trash", it is most definitely racist.

what kind of papers do you read, dave?

you're black, aren't you?

How can you assume this? Maybe you assume too much?

If Another ethnic group was to call me "white trash", it is most definitely racist.

Non racist statement: "Hey! Look at that white guy!"
Non racist statement: "Hey! Look at that white trash guy!"

The difference deals not with the subject's skin color, but their appearance, values, behavior--their culture. It's classist. If a black person pointed to certain of my relatives and said they were white trash, I wouldn't be offended on behalf of white people, or personally humiliated. Just slightly embarrassed to be related to them... but you can't choose your family, right?

Non racist statement: "Hey! Look at that white guy!"
Non racist statement: "Hey! Look at that white trash guy!"

The difference deals not with the subject's skin color, but their appearance, values, behavior--their culture. It's classist. If a black person pointed to certain of my relatives and said they were white trash, I wouldn't be offended on behalf of white people, or personally humiliated. Just slightly embarrassed to be related to them... but you can't choose your family, right?

I a person of a different race calls me "White Trash", "White Boy" or any insulting term that refers to my skin color it is JUST AS racist as me using a derogratory term towards them. If I was to call another white person white trash, yes that would be classist. Just as when Chris Rock uses the n-word to refer to a specific group of black people, he's being classist

I seriously get annoyed when people try to say Only White People can be racist. Anyone who hates or uses hateful language against another race (regardless of power or number) is acting racist.

I a person of a different race calls me "White Trash", "White Boy" or any insulting term that refers to my skin color it is JUST AS racist as me using a derogratory term towards them. If I was to call another white person white trash, yes that would be classist. Just as when Chris Rock uses the n-word to refer to a specific group of black people, he's being classist

I seriously get annoyed when people try to say Only White People can be racist. Anyone who hates or uses hateful language against another race (regardless of power or number) is acting racist.

I'll give you "white boy," "white bitch," etc. etc., but white trash, no. It's like redneck or hilbilly, it means something quite specific.

I agree that the n-word is probably used as a rough equivalent to "white trash." But, as I'm not black, I really can't speculate or comment on the usage of the n-word. However, I am eminently qualified to ponitificate on the usage of "white trash." ;)

Must go. Bye now.

what kind of papers do you read, dave?

you're black, aren't you?

you too, right?

you too, right?

Maybe no, but jealous :)

I'll give you "white boy," "white bitch," etc. etc., but white trash, no. It's like redneck or hilbilly, it means something quite specific.

I agree that the n-word is probably used as a rough equivalent to "white trash." But, as I'm not black, I really can't speculate or comment on the usage of the n-word. However, I am eminently qualified to ponitificate on the usage of "white trash." ;)

Must go. Bye now.

You don't have to give anything. You can either see that a phrase that has a term indicating race refers to race or not. I didn't expect you to understand. :D

You don't have to give anything. You can either see that a phrase that has a term indicating race refers to race or not. I didn't expect you to understand. :D

Okay, so If White Trash isn't racist, then neither is "Black Trash" or any other racial group you decide to use as an adjective.

As I said, it depends on who is saying it and/or the intent behind it.

I don't know another way to say it. If "white" is a term referring to Caucasian then any statement regarding white trash is racial.

I don't know another way to say it. If "white" is a term referring to Caucasian then any statement regarding white trash is racial.

Thanks Dave :D

:confused: You've seen me? Where?

Awww--your wig isn't bad. ;)

Black is black

Los Bravos - Black Is Black

Black is black
I want my baby back
It's gray, it's gray
Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

If I had my way
She'd be back today
But she don't intend
To see me again, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

I can't choose
It's too much to lose
My love's too strong
Wow! Maybe if she
Would come back to me
Then it can't go wrong

Bad is bad
That I feel so sad
It's time, it's time
That I found peace of mind, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

I can't choose
It's too much to lose
My love's too strong
Wow! Maybe if she
Would come back to me
Then it can't go wrong

Black is black
I want my baby back
It's gray, it's gray
Since she went away, Ooh-Ooh
What can I do
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue
'Cause I-I-I-I-I'm feelin' blue

:) :D

I had a discussion with someone the other day about the MOBO awards. He reckoned all hell would be let loose if there was a MOWO awards. I'm inclined to agree, although I can see where the arguments about subjugation and under-representation come in. As Bart once said of Homer "He's always complaining about Whitey keeping him down." Shouldn't the same rules, rights, be for everyone?

Peter

Music of White Origin, though? If people are that much into folk music then they just hang out in real ale pubs, wearing knitted jumpers like the rest of us do. Then again that could well be the very site on which all Hell does break loose. You know what them Pagans are like.

How can you assume this? Maybe you assume too much?

dave reads papers whose content focuses on the marital circumstances of famous people.

you too, right?

yes i am, robby. i care about kerry katona and i'm hung like a donkey - a great, big african-american donkey ... and i'm in a gang.

It's definitely just classist.

i don't understand why it's 'just' 'classist'.

How is White Trash racist against Blacks? Now, White N----- that is a derogatory term towards blacks.

i don't mean to be arsey, but i already explained why i think it's a racist term:

i get the impression when i hear it on t.v. or wherever that the term 'white trash' is used to differentiate the people in that category from white people who are educated, not poor & have a 'normal'/'decent' 'lifestyle'. it is as though no such differentiation is necessary when talking about black people since they are presumed to be poor, uneducated & immoral etc. i could be wrong, but that's how i've always thought of it.

(but, as i said before, maybe i've misunderstood its use.)

If Another ethnic group was to call me "white trash", it is most definitely racist.

I seriously get annoyed when people try to say Only White People can be racist. Anyone who hates or uses hateful language against another race (regardless of power or number) is acting racist.

when i hear people say things like this, it sounds like a begrudged acknowledgement that white people are sometimes racially prejudiced, but with the (apparently) necessary qualification that non-white people are no better. it's sounds like somebody saying that racism isn't that bad because everybody does it. (don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that you, personally, are trying to excuse racism - i'm just explaining that that's how these things come across to me.) in any case, i don't think anybody's saying that non-white people can't be racist.

Non racist statement: "Hey! Look at that white guy!"
Non racist statement: "Hey! Look at that white trash guy!"

The difference deals not with the subject's skin color, but their appearance, values, behavior--their culture. It's classist.

i agree that it's 'classist', but isn't 'classism' the value system upon which a market/captialist economy rests?

Music of White Origin, though? If people are that much into folk music then they just hang out in real ale pubs, wearing knitted jumpers like the rest of us do. Then again that could well be the very site on which all Hell does break loose. You know what them Pagans are like.

best dance act at the MOWOs:

http://website.lineone.net/~teddodsworth/rcmd/CAT2.JPG

when i hear people say things like this, it sounds like a begrudged acknowledgement that white people are sometimes racially prejudiced, but with the (apparently) necessary qualification that non-white people are no better. it's sounds like somebody saying that racism isn't that bad because everybody does it. (don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that you, personally, are trying to excuse racism - i'm just explaining that that's how these things come across to me.) in any case, i don't think anybody's saying that non-white people can't be racist.


http://website.lineone.net/~teddodsworth/rcmd/CAT2.JPG

Maybe not on this forum per se, but when's the last time you went to Berkley or San Francisco. Lots of extremely liberal people who hold those types of views.

Maybe not on this forum per se, but when's the last time you went to Berkley or San Francisco. Lots of extremely liberal people who hold those types of views.

you need to have a word with them about it, then.

you need to have a word with them about it, then.

I do when I see them. I'm glad to see that we don't have any ignorant people like that on the forum..

In a related story, is Theo due back tonight?