I am really disappointed in this getting passed.
The government is not going to bail me out if I get into financial trouble. I get to pay tax dollars to save companies who are just going to continue to off-shore jobs. I'm now subsidizing employment in China. WTF.

America: Where stupidity and financial irresponsibility is rewarded. Where the stupid, ignorant and those unable to manage their finances have their hands held. The height of stupidity.

America is supposed to be a capitalist country, where the government stays out of things like this, correct? Yet when stupid morons who can't add properly spend more than they earn and banks keep lending them the money, they just bail them out.

Let the rats sink. It would be hard for a few years, but things would even out once again. What is the message they are sending now? "Go ahead and give loans to every moron who comes through your doors." "Mr/Mrs consumer: Go ahead and spend beyond your means. By all means buy that second SUV and that plasma screen. We have your back!"

I'm not even American and I'm disgusted at the whole situation.

i cant say it pleases me, but over 90 percent of the nations economists say it is our best economic interests and so i have to go with what they say,as i am no economist.
it should not have been needed in the first place.it just goes to show that wall street needs people to be watching over them.
i found it more disturbing that all the extra stuff that had to be thrown in there,mainly for republicans to come on board for the package, i thought they were the party of conservatism?

I am really disappointed in this getting passed.
The government is not going to bail me out if I get into financial trouble. I get to pay tax dollars to save companies who are just going to continue to off-shore jobs. I'm now subsidizing employment in China. WTF.
I'm not American, but the British government (ie the tax payers) have bailed out a couple of banks recently, while as a teacher, I watch the kids' have to take home old tatty books that have been repaired countless times and my whiteboard that I write on during every lesson broke. The school doesn't have the money for a new one, so I've had to beg the caretaker to do a shitty repair job on it and just pray it doesn't collapse on a child.

i cant say it pleases me, but over 90 percent of the nations economists say it is our best economic interests and so i have to go with what they say,as i am no economist.


Is that the same 90% of economists that DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING?

i cant say it pleases me, but over 90 percent of the nations economists say it is our best economic interests and so i have to go with what they say,as i am no economist.
it should not have been needed in the first place.it just goes to show that wall street needs people to be watching over them.


It doesn't please me either...but "they" do all say some sort of action was necessary.

I read, though I did not verify, that the draft which was voted on last Monday, had about a gazillion dollars allotted for Union pension plans...WTF?

I still think the decision was hasty and ultimately unnecessary. Nobody really knows what this means (esp for the middle class), it's like a 'let's just see how it goes' approach. I would have rathered EVERYONE tighten their belts a bit more and try to ride out the rough times. We've certainly done it before. I have this bad feeling it's going to get messier and we're going to be worse off.

But hey, a lot of good music comes out of depressions... Billie Holliday, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington... :rolleyes:

It doesn't please me either...but "they" do all say some sort of action was necessary.

I read, though I did not verify, that the draft which was voted on last Monday, had about a gazillion dollars allotted for Union pension plans...WTF?

yeah, i am not going to question the "experts" on this one. economics are a mystery to me in many regards, i know it sounds horrible that they are "giving wall street" all this money, but as many who know voted yes on it say, those angry emails about voting for it are now starting to become emails saying to pass the bill as it is slowly reaching the rest of the country.
without credit and loans the country will basically be dead.

both parties should be ashamed of what they tried doing with the bill,it was a free for all adding goodies and extras to the bill.

Is that the same 90% of economists that DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING?

many actually predicted it, but like most things in washington, they went ignored.

It doesn't please me either...but "they" do all say some sort of action was necessary.


I generally dislike Republicans but not even half of them voted for this bill. Isn't it strange that a bill like this was not even backed by Bush's party even though he was the one that came up with it.

I really like this quote...

Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Tex., a leader of the House conservatives said despite his increasing fears about the economy, he was not convinced the measure would truly work, and feared it would fundamentally change the nature of government.

"How can we have capitalism on the way up, and socialism on the way down?" Hensarling said. "If we lose our ability to fail will we not soon lose our ability to succeed."

BTW.. the vote went like this:

Dems yes: 172
Dems no: 63
Reps yes: 91
Reps no: 108

I will NEVER vote for anyone who supported this bill.

many actually predicted it, but like most things in washington, they went ignored.

Ralph Nader actually sent a letter to Congress asking them to do something about it before it happened. Sadly, it made no difference.

Ralph Nader actually sent a letter to Congress asking them to do something about it before it happened. Sadly, it made no difference.

yeah it is typical.


in reality, no republicans should really be for it, not economic conservatives anyways. its less a stretch for a democrat to support it.
lets say the plan works, it will be odd that a problem caused by perhaps too many conservatism ideals will be fixed by a liberal minded plan.

We shall see on Monday when the markets open.

Bad times, they are a'comin.

i dont know exactly what passed, but i am sure i wont like it :mad:
i mean the VA is over burdened to a point unlike any this country has seen in 40 years
but greed driven & possible criminals get a bail out? :confused:
and what about these supposed capitalists taking care of themselves?
i thought thats what capitalism was supposed to be about :cool:
i mean a lot of those Wall Street types lobbied hard for less regulation
shouldnt they suffer the costs of such as much as they did the rewards?
i include most of the investors in this, i personally have witnessed the greed disguised as a hunger for 'security' that grips many of the average investors
i keep waiting for people to learn that those that invest your money are at best committed to a blind faith in 'the market' no matter what
and are much more likely saying whatever they think they have to get your money
greed almost always works on people
and this bailout will only encourage more greed and blind faith
if the gov really wanted to give people 700 billion dollars it does not have
then it could have saved the homes of millions of hard working people like my mother
where's their bailout?
or how about just hiring some actual doctors at the VA!

I hope everyone likes Ramen noodles.

I hope everyone likes Ramen noodles.

I do. chkn flava

I think that the entire congress is corrupt and every incumbent that is seeking re-election should be voted out.

Whether the gov't should have done this bailout can be debated, but why were billions allocated for special "pork" projects such as:

Wooden arrows: This tax break, backed by Oregon's two senators, would benefit an Oregon manufacturer of wooden arrows for children by $2 million over 10 years.
Racetracks: Earmark would allow auto racetrack owners to depreciate their facilities over seven years, saving the industry $100 million over two years.
Rum: Offers rum producers in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands a rebate on excise taxes worth $192 million over two years.
Wool: Reduces tariffs for U.S. makers of wool fabric that use imported yarn, worth $148 million over five years. The measure was pushed by Reps. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., and Melissa Bean, D-Ill.
Exxon Valdez: Plaintiffs in the suit over the 1989 oil spill could spread their tax payments on punitive damages over three years, cutting their tax bill by $49 million. The measure was backed by Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska.
American Samoa: Allows certain corporations to reduce their tax liability on income earned in American Samoa, at a cost of $33 million over two years.
Hollywood: Extends a tax break for film and TV companies that keep their production in the United States, worth $478 million over 10 years. The provision was originally pushed by Rep. Diane Watson, D-Los Angeles.

I really like this quote...

Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Tex., a leader of the House conservatives said despite his increasing fears about the economy, he was not convinced the measure would truly work, and feared it would fundamentally change the nature of government.

"How can we have capitalism on the way up, and socialism on the way down?" Hensarling said. "If we lose our ability to fail will we not soon lose our ability to succeed."

It does forever change the role of government....

To carry the failure/success point a little further, society today has gone overboard trying to "protect" kids from failure....from select school districts giving only "effort" grades, to sports teams not keeping score...kids today are immune to failure, thus they don't even know what it takes to succeed.

I certainly don't want to break a kid's spirit, but as I think back to my childhood, the occasional, "you really screwed that one up trubz" usually inspired me to work a little harder.

Someone made the point that 30 years ago the Russians were involved in a conflict in Afghanistan and had Nationalised Banks...:)

We're all Communists now....:p

It does forever change the role of government....

i dont think it changes the role of this particular group of people that have governed for far too long in both the white house and congress
i was especially was struck when i read:

Both the Democratic and Republican parties pressed their members in the House to swing behind the revised bill and party leaders expect it to pass.

one more time, whether it is war with another country or leveraging all of our futures for the benefit of the few
its painfully obvious that the Democratic and Republicans are not rivals at all
more like friends engaging in a friendly competition for control over, well, all of us :eek:
as a matter of fact, i have just decided i wont vote for either of their nominees
and i will encourage everybody i know to do the same!

I am really disappointed in this getting passed.
The government is not going to bail me out if I get into financial trouble. I get to pay tax dollars to save companies who are just going to continue to off-shore jobs. I'm now subsidizing employment in China. WTF.

the government did bail you out. You don't understand what the bail out is preventing.

The point is the government now knows it must regulate this stuff more. For example, to prevent deception by these bankers. People complain they want less government. But we already have the government making sure we don't steal, murder, fuck kids, etc...what's wrong in making sure Wall Street doesn't do the same? It doesn't mean we get socialism. The market will still exist, it'll just be more honest...well, forced to be.

The point is the government now knows it must regulate this stuff more. For example, to prevent deception by these bankers. People complain they want less government. But we already have the government making sure we don't steal, murder, fuck kids, etc...what's wrong in making sure Wall Street doesn't do the same? It doesn't mean we get socialism. The market will still exist, it'll just be more honest...well, forced to be.
for the power elite, washington and wall street are a revolving door they simply pass from one side of it to the other
all the time knowing that they have almost nothing really threatening to fear from our legal system
its long been a fact here that the more you steal, the less you will be punished
now, if some brokers, bankers and financiers were done in by somebody who lost everything
only then would you see that industry change http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/gulrober/cool.gif
until then criminals who keep their hands clean will only multiply
and encourage even more of the best & brightest to waste their talent on wall street
whilst the latest middle class sucker is born to earn, save and lose their hard earned $ :cool:

the pigs all have too much dirt on each other and they know that if one of them goes down he'll try to take as many as he can with him, so they do a bailout.

Bring back debtor prisons and institute the death penalty for corrupt CEO's.

That'll clean up the market!

The free-market will even itself out. It always does... right... right?!?! :confused:

*jumps out window*

for the power elite, washington and wall street are a revolving door they simply pass from one side of it to the other
all the time knowing that they have almost nothing really threatening to fear from our legal system
its long been a fact here that the more you steal, the less you will be punished
now, if some brokers, bankers and financiers were done in by somebody who lost everything
only then would you see that industry change http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/gulrober/cool.gif
until then criminals who keep their hands clean will only multiply
and encourage even more of the best & brightest to waste their talent on wall street
whilst the latest middle class sucker is born to earn, save and lose their hard earned $ :cool:

nothing criminal happened. It's called deregulation. If you don't like it...vote Democrat.

It is a ridiclous move that I still view as unconstitutional.

I still contend that the majority of people were NOT taken advantage of by coorperations and banks and that they gambled and they lost. Basic premise is that a large quantity of people spent more than they were capable of earning or repaying in the hopes that they would one day earn what they could to pay off their debt. Now I have to pay for their mistakes.

It is a ridiclous move that I still view as unconstitutional.

I still contend that the majority of people were NOT taken advantage of by coorperations and banks and that they gambled and they lost. Basic premise is that a large quantity of people spent more than they were capable of earning or repaying in the hopes that they would one day earn what they could to pay off their debt. Now I have to pay for their mistakes.

yes...but do you believe that without loans, small businesses now would face closure. and the dollar would continue to drop. the market would further crash. unemployment will skyrocket? regardless who is at fault, we need to stomach it, fix it, and put safeguards in place to prevent this in the future.

I do believe that all $700 billion will not be used. According to the bill, the money comes in steps...if necessary. and i believe that with the right administration, the money will be paid back. I like the salary cap put in place.

yes...but do you believe that without loans, small businesses now would face closure. and the dollar would continue to drop. the market would further crash. unemployment will skyrocket? regardless who is at fault, we need to stomach it, fix it, and put safeguards in place to prevent this in the future.

I do believe that all $700 billion will not be used. According to the bill, the money comes in steps...if necessary. and i believe that with the right administration, the money will be paid back. I like the salary cap put in place.

I believe that if you buy a home with the thought process of, I can afford this if I rent out the basement then you have no business going after a mortgage. That mentality is what pushed the housing values up across Brooklyn, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk. You were here. You saw what was going on.

My own parents were trying to get me to buy a home and I said they were nuts. You do not purchase a home unless you can pay for it. If you take a tenant then that tenant should not be the determining factor in meeting your mortgage each month. It should be icing on the cake.

As much as teenage, socialist liberals will cry out in anger, I look forward to taking advantage of this in the upcoming year and profiting off of everyone else's stupidity. NOW is the time for a tenured teacher, at max step salary with 10+ years in the system to buy someone's about to be foreclosed home.

Anyone who has the true financial ability to buy a home should consider that right now as more "for sale" signs are being hammered into front lawns.

Anyone who has the true financial ability to buy a home should consider that right now as more "for sale" signs are being hammered into front lawns.

But nobody can get a mortgage right now, even if they have impeccable credit. That's the problem.

But nobody can get a mortgage right now, even if they have impeccable credit. That's the problem.

Someone such as myself will be at the top of the list of acceptable mortgage "risks." As they say in Italian families and the stereotype may be:

"Dat guy there hes a good earner"

Someone such as myself will be at the top of the list of acceptable mortgage "risks." As they say in Italian families and the stereotype may be:

"Dat guy there hes a good earner"

I'm tellin' ya--that's not enough right now. Banks are petrified.

We will see then, we will see...

In the meantime I am simply throwing things up on eBay and in disbelief as people are buying the things that they are and spending more than they should. Liquidate any and all things that I do not need and throw as much into the bank as possible.

I'm tellin' ya--that's not enough right now. Banks are petrified.

The days of loans for people with bad credit or 100% financing for anyone are over - but mortgages and car loans are closing every day, even now. :confused:

Toyota announced this week an offer of 0% financing for people with good credit to boost sales. It's a sign of the times to see Toyota doing it, but apparently the money for loans to customers is still out there. (And if you have a 10mpg SUV in the driveway and excellent credit, 0% on a Corolla sounds like a pretty good deal right about now).

And FWIW, the offers of pre-approved credit cards and offers to refinance our mortgage haven't slowed down a bit at our house.

nothing criminal happened. It's called deregulation. If you don't like it...vote Democrat.

nothing? just because people in the investment racket are rarely charged does not mean they do not commit plenty of crimes :cool:
its just that a lot of people in the 'securities industry' are heavily insulated from 'the law' BECAUSE THE SEC PROTECTS THEM & NOT INVESTORS
see, we normal people are expected to do things like be honest and we demonstrate this with our deeds
on Wall Street, people take 'Ethics tests' to prove a how ethical they are
and plenty along the way learn what they can legally get away with
all that aside though, the real truth is that most investors are driven by greed and look for the wrong kinds of financial advisors
while most of the people wanting to invest other's people's money are basically over educated idiots that tend to rely on a few big fund managers they feel they have a personal relationship with
& what nobody wants to admit is there is no science to making money by investment
but there is faith http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/gulrober/prayerjv8.gif

the government did bail you out. You don't understand what the bail out is preventing.

I understand that the bailout is going to allow the banking industry to keep money flowing and free up the credit market but I don't want or need the help of the government. If the economy takes a massive hit because the people handling all the money were reckless I'd be happy. If we had a 10 year recession or even a depression, I really would be happy.

All we learned is that big business keeps on winning no matter what they do. This was not a government bailout, it was at taxpayer bailout. The government spent tax dollars they haven't collected yet.

If there was going to be some kind of bailout, it should have been much more methodical. Warren Buffet has some excellent ideas on how to make that happen while being fiscally responsible and measuring the amount of money needed for the bailout. He believed the $700B was far too much and based on his financial success I believe him over anyone that Bush was using as an adviser.

It is a ridiclous move that I still view as unconstitutional.

I still contend that the majority of people were NOT taken advantage of by coorperations and banks and that they gambled and they lost. Basic premise is that a large quantity of people spent more than they were capable of earning or repaying in the hopes that they would one day earn what they could to pay off their debt. Now I have to pay for their mistakes.

I don't feel bad for people who overspent.
I don't feel bad for banks who overlent.
I don't feel bad for companies that insured the loans even though they didn't have the money to actually back the policies.

All 3 should suffer, not me.

I have a mortgage. It was signed when the sub-prime market was the latest craze. I told the lender there was no chance I would do anything other than a fixed rate loan on a house I could afford even if I took a 20% pay cut.

Why should my sensible spending be rewarded with a bill for a bunch of greedy gamblers?

I understand that the bailout is going to allow the banking industry to keep money flowing and free up the credit market but I don't want or need the help of the government. If the economy takes a massive hit because the people handling all the money were reckless I'd be happy. If we had a 10 year recession or even a depression, I really would be happy.

.

Sorry...I didn't know you are an anarchist. In that case :guitar:

the government did bail you out. You don't understand what the bail out is preventing.

agreed

The days of loans for people with bad credit or 100% financing for anyone are over - but mortgages and car loans are closing every day, even now. :confused:

Toyota announced this week an offer of 0% financing for people with good credit to boost sales. It's a sign of the times to see Toyota doing it, but apparently the money for loans to customers is still out there. (And if you have a 10mpg SUV in the driveway and excellent credit, 0% on a Corolla sounds like a pretty good deal right about now).

And FWIW, the offers of pre-approved credit cards and offers to refinance our mortgage haven't slowed down a bit at our house.

TBH, if you have a bad credit rating you shouldn't be getting credit. That is in part how you get a wonky economy. Don't care was made to care, but can't pay, won't pay.

You do not purchase a home unless you can pay for it. If you take a tenant then that tenant should not be the determining factor in meeting your mortgage each month. It should be icing on the cake.


Tell my landlady that! I have to pay rent early so that she can pay the mortgage on her second home.

But nobody can get a mortgage right now, even if they have impeccable credit. That's the problem.

Yeah, but there's them rich folk with ready money awaiting.

Bet it's not our dear old ma's anymore with mattresses full cash.

TBH, if you have a bad credit rating you shouldn't be getting credit. That is in part how you get a wonky economy. Don't care was made to care, but can't pay, won't pay.

Absolutely. This "credit crunch" we're in as it applies to the average American living beyond their means is a good thing.

I want reparations!

Tell my landlady that! I have to pay rent early so that she can pay the mortgage on her second home.



Yeah, but there's them rich folk with ready money awaiting.

Bet it's not our dear old ma's anymore with mattresses full cash.

Exactly what I mean, if you decide to move somewhere immediately she could be in default on that mortgage. I mean really WTF? Idiots. You do not buy what you cannot afford.

On SNL Weekend Update:

"Guess what? That house you couldn't pay for? You can pay for it."

But nobody can get a mortgage right now, even if they have impeccable credit. That's the problem.

That's not true. They are much harder to get but they are available.

Bring back debtor prisons and institute the death penalty for corrupt CEO's.

That'll clean up the market!

Where do I vote for that?

I'll be first in line.

America: Where stupidity and financial irresponsibility is rewarded. Where the stupid, ignorant and those unable to manage their finances have their hands held. The height of stupidity.

America is supposed to be a capitalist country, where the government stays out of things like this, correct? Yet when stupid morons who can't add properly spend more than they earn and banks keep lending them the money, they just bail them out.

Let the rats sink. It would be hard for a few years, but things would even out once again. What is the message they are sending now? "Go ahead and give loans to every moron who comes through your doors." "Mr/Mrs consumer: Go ahead and spend beyond your means. By all means buy that second SUV and that plasma screen. We have your back!"

I'm not even American and I'm disgusted at the whole situation.

Um yeah. I don't know if you realize this, but, the thing you're talking about DID NOT HAPPEN. It was a proposal, but it didn't get passed along with the bill. It was cut out.

All the bailout did was bail out CORPORATIONS. Individuals will get nothing from this. It only helped WALL STREET.
:mad:

Um yeah. I don't know if you realize this, but, the thing you're talking about DID NOT HAPPEN. It was a proposal, but it didn't get passed along with the bill. It was cut out.

All the bailout did was bail out CORPORATIONS. Individuals will get nothing from this. It only helped WALL STREET.
:mad:

I blame the mentality of individuals such as my coworker's tenants who decided to purposely default on their rent so they could go on vacation knowing that they would have to pay a hefty penalty. It is nice and easy to blame the faceless corporations but people DO indeed need to analyze their spending habits.