The arrogance of Chinese Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong to call protesters "disgusting" shows that the message that China must change it's position on human rights to be accepted by the international community is not getting through. It's a shame that the athletes are being cheated by having the moment they've worked for wind up tainted by political concerns, but this is a chance to send a message, and we must boycott the Olympics. The United States will send athletes, and Bush may even attend the opening ceremonies, but as consumers, as individuals, we can say make our feelings known.

Here is a small section of the story. Click the link to read the whole thing.

China condemns Olympic torch relay disruptions (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080410/tc_nm/olympics_torch_dc)

China's ambassador to the United States condemned a purported attempt to disrupt the U.S. leg of the Beijing Olympic torch relay, saying such "disgusting" conduct was doomed to fail, state media said on Thursday.

The torch's only stop in North America turned into a game of hide-and-seek on Wednesday as the San Francisco route was abruptly changed by city officials, angering anti-China protesters and disappointing supporters.

Thousands of people converged along the scenic Embarcadero waterfront route in the city. But after the opening ceremony, the first runner, flanked by blue-clad Chinese security officials, carried the torch into a warehouse.

The torch eventually turned up miles away from the original planned route.

"A tiny group of people ignored the spirit of the Olympic charter and tried to disrupt and sabotage the Beijing Olympic Games," the official Xinhua news agency quoted Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong as saying. He did not elaborate on the purported plot.

The group also tried to "damage Sino-U.S. relations and tarnish China's image. This disgusting conduct is unpopular and doomed to fail," Zhou said without elaborating.

The torch was a magnet last week for chaotic demonstrations in London and Paris over China's human rights record and a recent government crackdown on monk-led protests in Tibet.

Groups unhappy about China's human rights record and its policies on Sudan's Darfur region have sought to pressure Beijing as it prepares to host the Olympics in August.

Bush and other Western leaders are facing a delicate balancing act as calls mount for them to boycott the Olympics opening ceremony.

The route for the torch relay on May 2 in Hong Kong, its first stop in China, will be cut short "to avoid embarrassing scenes," Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported, quoting an unnamed government source.

(Additional reporting by Duncan Martell, Robert Galbraith, Erin Siegal and Philipp Gollner in San Francisco, Richard Cowan in Washington, Guo Shipeng and Nick Mulvenney in Beijing and John Ruwitch in Hong Kong; Editing by Ken Wills and David Fogarty)

Boycott caring for stupid causes.

Q: What is the reason why Chinese people don't voice their opinions about Tibet or Sudan?

A: They will disappear if they do.

EDIT: Mao Zedong killed 77 million people during his ruling of China (1923–1976) making him the most deadly dictator in all of history. I don't think anyone can top him. Maybe.

Boycott caring for stupid causes.

is life a stupid cause? If so you are welcome to boycott it!

It's high time we got rid of capitalism, be it the Chinese variant or the Western version, that we see still making a mint for those at the top off the rest of us at the bottom, as we struggle more & more. It's the same market!

love

Grim

is life a stupid cause? If so you are welcome to boycott it!

It's high time we got rid of capitalism, be it the Chinese variant or the Western version, that we see still making a mint for those at the top off the rest of us at the bottom, as we struggle more & more. It's the same market!

love

Grim

And replace it with what?

Q: What is the reason why Chinese people don't voice their opinions about Tibet or Sudan?

A: They will disappear if they do.

EDIT: Mao Zedong killed 77 million people during his ruling of China (1923–1976) making him the most deadly dictator in all of history. I don't think anyone can top him. Maybe.

I'm not asking the Chinese people to do anything, though if they wanted to, they could, and some of them have. (Think of the picture of the person in Tiananmen Square standing in front of the tanks.)

What I'm saying is that we, as consumers, should not watch the Olympics and should not buy any Olympic merchandise. Those are things you can do by not doing anything except being observant. Then if people feel they can take the time, we could write to sponsors that will be using the Olympic symbol on their products, especially, or just buying ads during the broadcasts, and tell them that we won't be buying these products.

By the way, where can i get a free tibet?

Go to a Tesco or a Walmart and check the rear bumper of each compact or mid-sized vehicle. When you find a "FREE TIBET" sticker wait for the owners of that vehicle, surprise attack them, and steal their recently purchased items and wallet. Send all proceeds to a Tibetan charity.

I have already started to boycott.....by knowing that i won't watch it on the telly anyway:)

By the way, where can i get a free tibet?

When you start speaking in this matter you have to give a "nod" to the "source" of material like that.

http://www.spurgeonworld.com/blog/images/groucho.jpg

And replace it with what?

well I know what I'd like to see in place but how about you?

love

Grim

I'm not asking the Chinese people to do anything, though if they wanted to, they could, and some of them have. (Think of the picture of the person in Tiananmen Square standing in front of the tanks.)

What I'm saying is that we, as consumers, should not watch the Olympics and should not buy any Olympic merchandise. Those are things you can do by not doing anything except being observant. Then if people feel they can take the time, we could write to sponsors that will be using the Olympic symbol on their products, especially, or just buying ads during the broadcasts, and tell them that we won't be buying these products.

I support this idea. Speak with your money people!

Boycott caring for stupid causes.

like this (http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showpost.php?p=730397&postcount=1) one (http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showpost.php?p=730631&postcount=12)?

Some of the athletes might start boycotting when they all start dropping like flies with respiratory problems.:(

I boycott the olympics every four years anyway, but this time consciously. ;)

By the way, where can i get a free tibet?

I'm pretty much free tonight for a couple hours after the kids go to bed.

I'll be boycotting due to the squat toilets.

I'm pretty much free tonight for a couple hours after the kids go to bed.

I am one of the few people that actually got that.

By the way, where can i get a free tibet?

:D HA!:D

righty o...will do that at lunch time:) will you visit me in jail?


I will visit you cornelius blaze, and I will bring jigsaw puzzles! ;)

I'm pretty much free tonight for a couple hours after the kids go to bed.

Hey...me too ;)

I am one of the few people that actually got that.

The few and the proud....I got it too.
Who else "got it?"
Discuss.

Not watch the Olympics? Not buy any Olympic merchandise?

Yeah. I think I can, uh, I think I can handle that.

Not watch the Olympics? Not buy any Olympic merchandise?

Yeah. I think I can, uh, I think I can handle that.

i dont know if i can keep myself from buying Olympic merchandise. i mean, whew...that's gonna be tough...

Not watch the Olympics? Not buy any Olympic merchandise?

Yeah. I think I can, uh, I think I can handle that.

Ok, then, boycott all Chinese-made goods. Try it for a month. It's fucking impossible. Even some of the organic produce at Trader Joe's is grown there now. I mean, how unfair is it when you have to compromise one pet cause in order to satisfy another?

i dont know if i can keep myself from buying Olympic merchandise. i mean, whew...that's gonna be tough...

they are not talking about the special olympics buddy

:p

they are not talking about the special olympics buddy

:p

dar dar ner ner.

they are not talking about the special olympics buddy

:p

If only there were a graphic about the Special Olympics...

If only there were a graphic about the Special Olympics...

Anyone know of one?

Anyone know of one?

you dont need one. just read my last post outloud and use your imagination.

Anyone know of one?

oh you wouldn't... :p

I'll do my best to boycott, but I love watching track and field... :rolleyes:

p.s. :guitar:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/amazingranda/chicago2016olympics.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/amazingranda/chicago2016olympics.jpg

That is a fucking beautiful logo. It would be so cool if Chicago got picked.

Not watch the Olympics? Not buy any Olympic merchandise?

Yeah. I think I can, uh, I think I can handle that.

http://i27.tinypic.com/iylt1w.jpg

I'll confess, if Tanya Harding is not involved I don't care anyway, but a bread I buy, for example, is an olympic sponsor, and they will be carrying the symbol on the package. Many of the popular brands we buy everyday will have the symbol.

It's possible that everyone reading this wouldn't buy a t-shirt that looked like this one anyway.
http://i28.tinypic.com/nx9ff6.jpg

Here are some alternatives (http://www.printfection.com/politicalpoints/Genocide-Skull/_s_167217), though I'm not sure if wearing one of these is going to get anyone laid, either. :D

http://i29.tinypic.com/wujor8.jpg

That is a fucking beautiful logo. It would be so cool if Chicago got picked.

There's a lot of other similarly cool sports-related logos. And yes, it'd be sooooo cool :cool: Solo sleepover at my place! :D oh, wait a minute :eek: ;)

There's a lot of other similarly cool sports-related logos. And yes, it'd be sooooo cool :cool: Solo sleepover at my place! :D oh, wait a minute :eek: ;)

Think your remodeling will be done by then? ;)

Mrs. NRitH's childhood best friend has a 6000+ square foot behemoth up in the north burbs. Hopefully they'll still have it 8 years from now.

I'm not really for boycotting the Olympics (I will be wathcing the swimming)...but I think a boycot of Chinese made products could be a better way of 'sending a message'.

I was reading in the paper today that some feel that China (govt) will just close itself off...which may be even worse for the Chinese people (and Tibetan).

Think your remodeling will be done by then? ;)

Mrs. NRitH's childhood best friend has a 6000+ square foot behemoth up in the north burbs. Hopefully they'll still have it 8 years from now.

*ugh* Dood! Kicking me when I'm down! :( :tears: ;)

I have 8 years to befriend your burby behemouth buds. :D

It's possible that everyone reading this wouldn't buy a t-shirt that looked like this one anyway.

Here are some alternatives (http://www.printfection.com/politicalpoints/Genocide-Skull/_s_167217), though I'm not sure if wearing one of these is going to get anyone laid, either. :D

http://i29.tinypic.com/wujor8.jpg


Very nice Dave! :D

I'm not asking the Chinese people to do anything, though if they wanted to, they could, and some of them have. (Think of the picture of the person in Tiananmen Square standing in front of the tanks.)

What I'm saying is that we, as consumers, should not watch the Olympics and should not buy any Olympic merchandise. Those are things you can do by not doing anything except being observant. Then if people feel they can take the time, we could write to sponsors that will be using the Olympic symbol on their products, especially, or just buying ads during the broadcasts, and tell them that we won't be buying these products.

Why? I haven't been watching the news lately :o Have they killed some people again?

I mean, how unfair is it when you have to compromise one pet cause in order to satisfy another?

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/you-make-bunny-cry.jpg

When you start speaking in this matter you have to give a "nod" to the "source" of material like that.

http://www.spurgeonworld.com/blog/images/groucho.jpg

One of my favorite New Yorkers ever, although Harpo was my hero early on, and Chico was no slouch.

I never pass by the Algonquin without getting a bit misty-eyed...

I would like to make a serious comment here. No, really, I mean it. Something happened the other day about this and it's been bothering the hell out of me since.

For those of you who don't know, I have a deep interest in certain aspects of Hong Kong culture and I have been studying Cantonese off-and-on for the last decade. I have a Chinese friend who used to live in the area but has now moved north. I still talk to him on Yahoo and we swap lanuage lessons (his English is in need of work). He is not from Hong Kong, but from Canton, so has grown up under Communist rule.

Anyway, the subject of Tibet came up. Now, belive me when I say this, my friend is the textbook definition of "mild-mannered". We have only discussed politics briefly where I said I do not like communism - and he agreed. When we were talking about Tibet, though, he went into what can only be described as a rant. He said that the BBC were misleading us and that the west is presenting a false view of the situation. He sent me a link to a video clip as proof, which showed how the riots were being reported by the west (CNN, BBC and a German TV station) against what is being reported in China.

The western reports were full of shots of violence from the Chinese authorities, whereas the Chinese one was just this old lady saying the Tibetans were causing trouble and the authorities were only maintaining order.

My friend vehemently denies that any wrongdoing has been done by the Chinese in this matter, and furthermore the Tibetans are troublemakers and ungrateful of the special status they have (they don't have to obey the one-child rule and they don't need as high test scores to get into college). He also stated that he hated the Dalai Lama, which shocked me a bit. Incidentally, he says the only fatalities in the violence has been eight people of Han ethnicity (i.e. Chinese, not Tibetan).

I argued that I didn't see what the BBC had to gain by falsifying or sensationalising the news, but he is adamant that we are being lied to. I was getting a bit narked myself, to be honest, saying I would rather believe the BBC than the Communist party. The whole thing has unsettled me a lot.

Thoughts?

Well you cannot know who are good guys and who are bad guys, can you? You'd have to live in China and in Tibet, and find out for yourself. Never trust any media!

Ok, then, boycott all Chinese-made goods. Try it for a month. It's fucking impossible. Even some of the organic produce at Trader Joe's is grown there now. I mean, how unfair is it when you have to compromise one pet cause in order to satisfy another?

No kidding. Chinese goods are inescapable. Whenever I'm in Bed Bath & Beyond I want to pull a clerk aside and say, "Excuse me, but could you tell me in which aisle I can find a #7B with extra plum sauce?"

http://i27.tinypic.com/iylt1w.jpg

Uncanny. That's the exact face I made when I found out Arrested Development was canceled.

Finally, a thread devoted to a real humanitarian cause as opposed to fuzzy-minded vegetarian proselytizing. I concur, the Chinese governments' treatment of Tibet, is horrible, not to mention all the other crimes of that government. Of course, it's not like we have an overwhelming degree of moral superiority, but thats' another story, and one must of course distinguish between the desires of the people and the actions of the state.

Finally, a thread devoted to something I agree with as opposed to something I don't.

Fixed that for you.

The IOC is a bunch of anti-American Euro-weenies anyway. Why else do ya think they're dropping baseball and softball? I don't know why they chose Red Commie China to host the games when they had so many fine cities in proper countries to choose from. At least the winter games (which are more fun) will be in a proper city - Vancouver. (Oops, I guess SoLowers gotta boycott all things related to Canada, but they'll be the envy of SoLowLand if they make it to the Moz gig in the gender-apartheid country of Iran.)

The best thing about the Olympics is how, over the decades, the good old USA made cool use of them back when they sorta kinda mattered. Cleveland's Jesse Owens stuck it to Hitler. Team USA hockey stuck it to the Soviets. Jimmy Carter even came through and used the Olympics to help speed up the downfall of the Soviet Evil Empire. I suppose an argument can be made that the Olympics shouldn't be politicized, but Americans have had the burden of saving the world several times over. The Olympics haven't meant much since America won the Cold War, but it'll be hard not tuning into Michael Phelps making history. And it's always funny when a Muslim refuses to wrestle an Israeli, unable to stomach the thought of a Jew kicking his ass.

I suppose an argument can be made that the Olympics shouldn't be politicized, but Americans have had the burden of saving the world several times over.

And that's why we're lucky to have you :sweet:

i think its good that world leaders are boycotting. do it for the tibetans and do it for those nice people from the falun gong. i love those falun gong members!

i think its good that world leaders are boycotting. do it for the tibetans and do it for those nice people from the falun gong. i love those falun gong members!

It's so cute that they believe they have a little spinning wheel in their tummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Controversy). And please, how cool is their logo?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ca/Falun8.svg/150px-Falun8.svg.png

Cue the "but that swastika spins clockwise, so it's not a Nazi symbol!" bullshit.

It's so cute that they believe they have a little spinning wheel in their tummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong#Controversy). And please, how cool is their logo?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ca/Falun8.svg/150px-Falun8.svg.png

Cue the "but that swastika spins clockwise, so it's not a Nazi symbol!" bullshit.

itotes mystical and kewl . i mean they just wanna sit in lotus position in a big old park and breathe and they get the crap beat outta them by the government. its fucked up. what we gotta do is get rid of scientology.
thats no bueno.

Cue the "but that swastika spins clockwise, so it's not a Nazi symbol!" bullshit.

Not sure where you're going with that, but to clarify, that symbol has nothing to do with the Falun Gong* or Nazi-ism. It's an acient Buddhist symbol that Hitler saw in Austria, inverted, and used for his own sick purpose.

*originally.

I would like to make a serious comment here. No, really, I mean it. Something happened the other day about this and it's been bothering the hell out of me since.

For those of you who don't know, I have a deep interest in certain aspects of Hong Kong culture and I have been studying Cantonese off-and-on for the last decade. I have a Chinese friend who used to live in the area but has now moved north. I still talk to him on Yahoo and we swap lanuage lessons (his English is in need of work). He is not from Hong Kong, but from Canton, so has grown up under Communist rule.

Anyway, the subject of Tibet came up. Now, belive me when I say this, my friend is the textbook definition of "mild-mannered". We have only discussed politics briefly where I said I do not like communism - and he agreed. When we were talking about Tibet, though, he went into what can only be described as a rant. He said that the BBC were misleading us and that the west is presenting a false view of the situation. He sent me a link to a video clip as proof, which showed how the riots were being reported by the west (CNN, BBC and a German TV station) against what is being reported in China.

The western reports were full of shots of violence from the Chinese authorities, whereas the Chinese one was just this old lady saying the Tibetans were causing trouble and the authorities were only maintaining order.

My friend vehemently denies that any wrongdoing has been done by the Chinese in this matter, and furthermore the Tibetans are troublemakers and ungrateful of the special status they have (they don't have to obey the one-child rule and they don't need as high test scores to get into college). He also stated that he hated the Dalai Lama, which shocked me a bit. Incidentally, he says the only fatalities in the violence has been eight people of Han ethnicity (i.e. Chinese, not Tibetan).

I argued that I didn't see what the BBC had to gain by falsifying or sensationalising the news, but he is adamant that we are being lied to. I was getting a bit narked myself, to be honest, saying I would rather believe the BBC than the Communist party. The whole thing has unsettled me a lot.

Thoughts?

I think this is interesting.
I would expect the Chinese news to feature a Chinese person saying the Tibetans are causing trouble, and to report the news differently. This is common. The US news reports the war in Iraq differently than other countries do, because I've seen it on Spanish language television and it's a lot bloodier.

Maybe it's because your friend has pride in where he is from and because of the education that I assume he received there. I think patriotism is something they attempt to teach the children in every country.

But why boycott the Olympics? :(

But why boycott the Olympics? :(

China Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China)

I understand that wikipedia might not be the best source, though you could google any claims made there, or click on sources cited, but here are Amnesty International's views on China. (http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/what-human-rights-legacy-beijing-olympics-20080401)

Here's an example.

Land rights activist Yang Chunlin was sentenced to five years in prison on 25 March for “inciting subversion” after he spearheaded a petition campaign under the banner “We don’t want the Olympics, we want human rights”. He was initially denied access to lawyers on the grounds that his case apparently involved “state secrets”. He was also reported to have been tortured by the police in detention, but was denied the opportunity to raise these allegations in court.

National statistics on executions remain classified as a state secret in China. Thousands of people are estimated to be sentenced to death and executed each year in the country. There are also regular reports of what are believed to be miscarriages of justice after hasty and unfair trials and widespread use of torture to extract confessions.

Another page says (http://zonaeuropa.com/20041202_1.htm)

There was another 60-something-year-old man, who made off with more than 600,000 yuan in graft payoffs. In the end, more than 200,000 yuan were still unaccounted for, so he got the death sentence. He was crying out that he was innocent all the way, so we had to pull the rope around his neck to stifle him and we almost strangled him. At a moment like that, we don't worry about anything else other than accomplishing our specific mission.

http://zonaeuropa.com/20041202_1.jpg

True, the US has the death penalty, too, but read that page for details on how it is carried out in China, and how often it happens. They are talking about performing eight executions at the same time, with no witnesses, in secret locations.

This page (http://zonaeuropa.com/20041202_2.htm) ahows this young woman's execution in detail.

http://zonaeuropa.com/20041202_3.jpg

^ Thanks for taking your time to answer, I knew they had death penalty, but I didn't know it was that bad... I thought this boycott had something to do with Tibet, I always seem to hear the Olympics and Tibet mentioned together, and I thought some genocide happened there and I missed it!

Well, from what I've heard on the news the Chinese are selling arms to those committing mass killings in Sudan's western border area. Also, they are treating Tibetans and Taiwanese pretty poorly (which is an understatement to say the least). Plus the Chinese gov't is just pretty poor all around with pollution and executions and quieting protesters through less-than-reputable means.

Viva La Revolucion in China!

But Taiwan is not part of China?

Yes it is silly!

A neighbouring country recognized Taiwan independence for a substantial amount of money, that's how I know :D

rats! :mad:

No, Macedonians :confused:

When Beijing won the Olympic bid, I was so excited 'cause I was studying Mandarin at the time. When my cousin announced her wedding in 8/08/08 taking place in Scotland, I was torn; when she asked me to be a bridesmaid, I had mixed feelings about not being able to go to China; now I am relieved that I will have nothing to do with the whole debacle (including feeling sorry for myself over "missing out") and will instead be somewhere better surrounded by family.:cool:

Sour grapes? ;)

I would like to make a serious comment here. No, really, I mean it. Something happened the other day about this and it's been bothering the hell out of me since.

For those of you who don't know, I have a deep interest in certain aspects of Hong Kong culture and I have been studying Cantonese off-and-on for the last decade. I have a Chinese friend who used to live in the area but has now moved north. I still talk to him on Yahoo and we swap lanuage lessons (his English is in need of work). He is not from Hong Kong, but from Canton, so has grown up under Communist rule.

Anyway, the subject of Tibet came up. Now, belive me when I say this, my friend is the textbook definition of "mild-mannered". We have only discussed politics briefly where I said I do not like communism - and he agreed. When we were talking about Tibet, though, he went into what can only be described as a rant. He said that the BBC were misleading us and that the west is presenting a false view of the situation. He sent me a link to a video clip as proof, which showed how the riots were being reported by the west (CNN, BBC and a German TV station) against what is being reported in China.

The western reports were full of shots of violence from the Chinese authorities, whereas the Chinese one was just this old lady saying the Tibetans were causing trouble and the authorities were only maintaining order.

My friend vehemently denies that any wrongdoing has been done by the Chinese in this matter, and furthermore the Tibetans are troublemakers and ungrateful of the special status they have (they don't have to obey the one-child rule and they don't need as high test scores to get into college). He also stated that he hated the Dalai Lama, which shocked me a bit. Incidentally, he says the only fatalities in the violence has been eight people of Han ethnicity (i.e. Chinese, not Tibetan).

I argued that I didn't see what the BBC had to gain by falsifying or sensationalising the news, but he is adamant that we are being lied to. I was getting a bit narked myself, to be honest, saying I would rather believe the BBC than the Communist party. The whole thing has unsettled me a lot.

Thoughts?

Okay, now I've realized why I had no idea what was happening in Tibet, it was in March and I was quite busy back then. So I (naturally) read what Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tibetan_protests) had about it, and it's f*cking brilliant! :D




First of all, I must make it clear that the Tibetan (rioters) have been non-violent throughout (the incident). From Tibetans' perspective, violence means harming life. From the video recordings you can see that the Tibetan rioters were beating Han Chinese, but only beating took place. After the beating the Han Chinese were free to flee. Therefore [there were] only beatings, no life was harmed. Those who were killed were all results of accidents. From recordings shown by the Chinese Communist government, we can clearly see that when Tibetan [rioters] were beating on their doors, the Han Chinese all went into hiding upstairs. When the Tibetan [rioters] set fire to the buildings, the Han Chinese remained in hiding instead of escaping, the result is that these Han Chinese were all accidentally burnt to death. Those who set and spread the fire, on the other hand, had no idea whatsoever that there were Han Chinese hiding upstairs. Therefore not only were Han Chinese burnt to death, some Tibetans were burnt to death too. Therefore all these incidents were accidents, not murder.

Why those silly Chinese didn't open the door when the mob politely knocked, is beyond me :D:D:D

Muslim countries are as bad at winning Olympic medals as they are at winning Nobel prizes in the sciences. But they lead the world in barbarism.

Muslim countries are as bad at winning Olympic medals as they are at winning Nobel prizes in the sciences. But they lead the world in barbarism.

man your gnarly.

Muslim countries are as bad at winning Olympic medals as they are at winning Nobel prizes in the sciences. But they lead the world in barbarism.

Idiot.

Idiot.


So you find that the Muslim countries excel in sports and the sciences and aren't very barbaric? I'd think it would be cool if, say, more Palestinian parents dreamed of their children growing up to be doctors and healing people, or working on a cure for a disease, instead of strapping bombs on and blowing up other parents' children. But that's just me. Maybe I'm the sicko.

Muslim countries are as bad at winning Olympic medals as they are at winning Nobel prizes in the sciences. But they lead the world in barbarism.

I've already addressed the inherent racism in this line of thinking, so I'll just offer a few figures in the way of a rebuttal..

During the Cold War the United States allied itself with several brutal dictatorships, some of whom the US brought to power, and sold them weapons.
United States Client Dictatorships Partial List 1950-Present Day
Civilian Deaths:
Chile 3,000+
Nicaragua 50,000+
El Salvador 70,000+
Guatemala 70,000+
Indonesia/East Timor Speculated as high as 2,000,000
Thats' leaving out Iran, Iraq, Zaire, Panama, and one or two others..
Direct Military Campaigns
Civilian Deaths
Korean War 200,000+
Vietnam 100,000+
Iraq 1990-2008 25,000+

These are conservative estimates, as in many bloodbaths the numbers can be difficult to ascertain.
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatx.htm

...You were saying something about barbarism?

I've already addressed the inherent racism in this line of thinking,


I'm talking about Islam but you keep talking about race. I guess that's your way of cutting off anyone who might think there's something troubling going on in Islamic culture, which apparently you believe someone must be insane to think. You yourself noted that there are a billion Muslims, and they are made up of every race. But I noticed you didn't venture a guess as to what percentage of those billion Muslims are down with Muslim barbarism. Jesus, I feel like Morrissey, who gets called a "racist" every time he brings up the topic of immigration, by people who don't want a discussion on the topic of immigration. BTW, even Muslims don't wanna live in Muslim-dominated countries -- I guess that's why they're flooding the Western countries as immigrants. But of course nothing's wrong in those Muslim countries.

BTW, if attacks on Islam makes one a racist, then your constant anti-Americanism must make you a racist against Americans.

Sour grapes? ;)

umm...no - change of perspective

I've already addressed the inherent racism in this line of thinking, so I'll just offer a few figures in the way of a rebuttal..

During the Cold War the United States allied itself with several brutal dictatorships, some of whom the US brought to power, and sold them weapons.
United States Client Dictatorships Partial List 1950-Present Day
Civilian Deaths:
Chile 3,000+
Nicaragua 50,000+
El Salvador 70,000+
Guatemala 70,000+
Indonesia/East Timor Speculated as high as 2,000,000
Thats' leaving out Iran, Iraq, Zaire, Panama, and one or two others..
Direct Military Campaigns
Civilian Deaths
Korean War 200,000+
Vietnam 100,000+
Iraq 1990-2008 25,000+

These are conservative estimates, as in many bloodbaths the numbers can be difficult to ascertain.
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatx.htm

...You were saying something about barbarism?

It doesn't matter what you say in arguing with Theo. He will always turn it around and avoid the ultimate point of your argument, then call you names and associate you bad things to try and ostracize you. Don't mind his bigotry, just ignore him. His arguments are inarguable, because if you try he acts snotty and treats you like an idiot.

http://deceiver.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/china-olypmic-hypocrite-cartoon.jpg

http://deceiver.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/china-olypmic-hypocrite-cartoon.jpg


Thanks... I just printed THAT out for my classroom.

Please use that message as a message of awareness and not as a message of resigned defeat. I put things back on the shelf that say "Made In China". Yes, you can go through my things and find "Made In China". I was shocked that some shoes I bought online were made in China, and there are a million little things that you might pick up that carry that mark, and sometimes there is not an option.

But please, let's not give up. If you put back 5 out of 10 things, 50%. If you search for alternatives to many items they are there, and as the demand grows, more alternatives will appear. They might cost a little more, but they will almost certainly be better made.

There are so many faulty dangerous Made in China (http://www.who-sucks.com/business/made-in-china-2007-danger-timeline) products that you don't save money by buying these "cheaper" products anyway.

Please use that message as a message of awareness and not as a message of resigned defeat. I put things back on the shelf that say "Made In China". Yes, you can go through my things and find "Made In China". I was shocked that some shoes I bought online were made in China, and there are a million little things that you might pick up that carry that mark, and sometimes there is not an option.

But please, let's not give up. If you put back 5 out of 10 things, 50%. If you search for alternatives to many items they are there, and as the demand grows, more alternatives will appear. They might cost a little more, but they will almost certainly be better made.

There are so many faulty dangerous Made in China (http://www.who-sucks.com/business/made-in-china-2007-danger-timeline) products that you don't save money by buying these "cheaper" products anyway.

I put it on the private bulletin board behind my desk where it is pinned on top of and next to printouts of Spiderman, Frank the Tank, Groucho Marx, The motivational poster of Captain Kirk (I cannot hear you over the sound of how awesome I am) a caricature of my own head that a kid drew me and countless other ridiculous things.

I know, I'm taking it too seriously. I just have an overall negative viewpoint which I try to overcome daily, and I hate seeing little messages of defeat.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x272/PashernatePoet/logochino1.gif

a bit grim, but yeah, satire..;)

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x272/PashernatePoet/logochino1.gif

a bit grim, but yeah, satire..;)

can I just confirm that I'm still alive & that I'll be boycotting the games!

love

Grim

Fareed Zakaria put it best, to me atleast, when he pointed out America's hypocrisies involving the issue. If people want to boycott China they should also pay attention to Russia's actions in Chechnya and their current policies regarding freedom of speech. Also, we should voice our opinions on Saudi Arabia, which has a terrible history of oppression and a depressing example of a justice system.

I'm not cutting China any slack here though. Over the past 100 years, it is said the Chinese government has killed over 80 million people, and over 100 million by some estimates. That would make the Chinese government the biggest executer of genocide in all of human history.

Personally, I know a few Chinese who want change in their government and personally I think we should not give the nationalists what they want by separating ourselves further from the Chinese people with a major boycott of the country. In the words of Mr. Zakaria... don't feed the Nationalists.

Free Tibet with shipping and handling costs

When Beijing won the Olympic bid, I was so excited 'cause I was studying Mandarin at the time.

Ni hao! That's as far as I got with Mandarin...I sometimes wish I'd picked it over Cantonese, as there are more learning materials for that dialect and only four tones instead of six.

A question for everyone: when you say "Free Tibet", what exactly do you mean? I'm slowly getting fed up with seeing that slogan without any basic understanding what people who use it actually want.

http://img.blogads.com/642400806/img.gif

A question for everyone: when you say "Free Tibet", what exactly do you mean? I'm slowly getting fed up with seeing that slogan without any basic understanding what people who use it actually want.

http://img.blogads.com/642400806/img.gif

cXE9mYpj2cA

cXE9mYpj2cA

Yes, that's about how clueless I am :p

A question for everyone: when you say "Free Tibet", what exactly do you mean? I'm slowly getting fed up with seeing that slogan without any basic understanding what people who use it actually want.

http://img.blogads.com/642400806/img.gif

I am not free. :mad: :p

I am not free. :mad: :p

Soon you will be :guitar::D


In the interest of full disclosure, I confess that whatever the layout is, I'd soooo do their lead designer. :horny:

Dear Friend,

There's a lot to celebrate about the Summer Olympics in China: The many nations of the world put politics aside and come together in peace so that the greatest human athletes on Earth can compete.

But there's an ugly side for animals living in the Olympic host country, a side that you won't see in this week's nonstop coverage: the Chinese fur industry's horrific abuse of animals.

By making an urgent donation today to support our work, you can help us draw the world's attention to the cruelty of the Chinese fur industry and keep people from unwittingly supporting it.

An estimated 2 million cats and hundreds of thousands of dogs are tortured and slaughtered for their fur in China every year. PETA's undercover video footage shows terrified animals crouched in tiny cages that are crammed so full of animals—both dead and alive—that the animals are unable to move. Some of the dogs and cats shown in the footage were still wearing the collars that their former families put on them. Animals are often hung upside-down by their legs or tails, and their skin is ripped off their bodies as they writhe and struggle.

China's fur industry unrepentantly continues to torture and kill animals for their skins.

China is one of the world's largest suppliers of animal fur. More than 95 percent of China's finished fur garments are exported for sale overseas, and many of them go to North America. Dog and cat fur is often intentionally mislabeled as "Asian jackal" or "rabbit" fur.

With so much attention focused on China right now, this is the time to demand an end to the Chinese fur industry's terrible torture of animals (https://ibiz.isiservices.com/peta-e/peta/donation.asp?section_code=H08T173P&ask4=--25-35-50-100-o).

china is crizzazy.

The arrogance of Chinese Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong to call protesters "disgusting" shows that the message that China must change it's position on human rights to be accepted by the international community is not getting through. It's a shame that the athletes are being cheated by having the moment they've worked for wind up tainted by political concerns, but this is a chance to send a message, and we must boycott the Olympics. The United States will send athletes, and Bush may even attend the opening ceremonies, but as consumers, as individuals, we can say make our feelings known.

Here is a small section of the story. Click the link to read the whole thing.

China condemns Olympic torch relay disruptions (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080410/tc_nm/olympics_torch_dc)

China's ambassador to the United States condemned a purported attempt to disrupt the U.S. leg of the Beijing Olympic torch relay, saying such "disgusting" conduct was doomed to fail, state media said on Thursday.

The torch's only stop in North America turned into a game of hide-and-seek on Wednesday as the San Francisco route was abruptly changed by city officials, angering anti-China protesters and disappointing supporters.

Thousands of people converged along the scenic Embarcadero waterfront route in the city. But after the opening ceremony, the first runner, flanked by blue-clad Chinese security officials, carried the torch into a warehouse.

The torch eventually turned up miles away from the original planned route.

"A tiny group of people ignored the spirit of the Olympic charter and tried to disrupt and sabotage the Beijing Olympic Games," the official Xinhua news agency quoted Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong as saying. He did not elaborate on the purported plot.

The group also tried to "damage Sino-U.S. relations and tarnish China's image. This disgusting conduct is unpopular and doomed to fail," Zhou said without elaborating.

The torch was a magnet last week for chaotic demonstrations in London and Paris over China's human rights record and a recent government crackdown on monk-led protests in Tibet.

Groups unhappy about China's human rights record and its policies on Sudan's Darfur region have sought to pressure Beijing as it prepares to host the Olympics in August.

Bush and other Western leaders are facing a delicate balancing act as calls mount for them to boycott the Olympics opening ceremony.

The route for the torch relay on May 2 in Hong Kong, its first stop in China, will be cut short "to avoid embarrassing scenes," Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported, quoting an unnamed government source.

(Additional reporting by Duncan Martell, Robert Galbraith, Erin Siegal and Philipp Gollner in San Francisco, Richard Cowan in Washington, Guo Shipeng and Nick Mulvenney in Beijing and John Ruwitch in Hong Kong; Editing by Ken Wills and David Fogarty)

For once we are actually in agreement. Any fellow Bostonians, the Tibetan Association of Boston has been holding vigils in Harvard Square every wednesday, from 5:30 to 8:00. All are welcome.

For once we are actually in agreement. Any fellow Bostonians, the Tibetan Association of Boston has been holding vigils in Harvard Square every wednesday, from 5:30 to 8:00. All are welcome.

I guess you can't count any more than you can spell "there", "their", and "they're" because we've agreed before.

A question for everyone: when you say "Free Tibet", what exactly do you mean? I'm slowly getting fed up with seeing that slogan without any basic understanding what people who use it actually want.

http://img.blogads.com/642400806/img.gif

What would I like to see happen? I'd like to see the Chinese government release the Panchen Lama who has been held since he was 11. To stop arresting and beating Tibetans. If they could case the periodic media blackouts in Tibet. If they could give the people of Tibet autonomy to govern themselves as they choose as they had for decades before the Chinese occupation. if they would allow the Dalai Lama, leader of the Tibetan people safe passage back to his native land instead of imposed exile. (Along with a large number of tibetan expatriates.) I think that would be a pretty good start.

I guess you can't count any more than you can spell "there", "their", and "they're" because we've agreed before.

You're such an asshole.

You're such an asshole.

It's a start. :)

Not too late to Boycott The Olympics.

Apparently news reports are coming in that the United States and other Democratic societies are not as bad as some people believe considering that if you decide to go against Chinese mandates concerning protesting upon behalf of the plight of Tibet that they do not want to hear shit about it and that instead of finding yourself on the news you find yourself in jail.

Apparently news reports are coming in that the United States and other Democratic societies are not as bad as some people believe considering that if you decide to go against Chinese mandates concerning protesting upon behalf of the plight of Tibet that they do not want to hear shit about it and that instead of finding yourself on the news you find yourself in jail.

I was just reading about the pollution and the conditions the athletes are being treated to. It doesn't sound like a great way to prepare for the performance of a lifetime. I guess that they are letting some foreigners have increased Internet access, but still trying to keep their own people in the dark about the outside world.

The good thing is I was reading the other day in the San Fransisco Chronicle that a lot of people in China are saving up and buying American goods. Maybe if the conditions get better for the people there it will help all of us. I mean, if they have more cash they will want better goods and the shoddy stuff China makes won't do, and also it creates a huge market for "Made in the USA" goods meaning more jobs for American workers.

Helping the standard of living, and the cause of human rights in China, besides being the moral thing to do, is also, the economically sensible thing to do. As it stands now though, I avoid Made In China goods whenever possible.

Actually the citizens in China are actually quite pleased with their current situation. Strange but true. Compared to where the country was at ten years ago, the progress that has been made was substantial and rapid enough to satisfy the majority of knowledgeable critics.

There is an outspoken well publicized minority that gains the majority of press, but according to the people they are pleased at what they have seen occur over the last few years.

Actually the citizens in China are actually quite pleased with their current situation. Strange but true. Compared to where the country was at ten years ago, the progress that has been made was substantial and rapid enough to satisfy the majority of knowledgeable critics.

There is an outspoken well publicized minority that gains the majority of press, but according to the people they are pleased at what they have seen occur over the last few years.

maybe, but how can you really trust that? It's like asking Elian Gonzalez how he likes life in Cuba.

maybe, but how can you really trust that? It's like asking Elian Gonzalez how he likes life in Cuba.

Elian G... should have gone back to Cuba as far as paternal rights... but that is for another topic.

I actually trust that due to chinese immigrant students that I teach. The 2-3% student asian population has a number of kids that come from China. They say that their parents thought that things were getting better in China until they came to the US to see what they were fully missing.

There is a level of progress that is felt in China but once they see what the rest of the world still has they realize that there is a length to still go. However according to them that is not to discount that the China of today is definitely different than the China of ten years ago.

me? I see a long ways to go... but I do not live there so I honestly have other things on my plate.

Elian G... should have gone back to Cuba as far as paternal rights... but that is for another topic.

I actually trust that due to chinese immigrant students that I teach. The 2-3% student asian population has a number of kids that come from China. They say that their parents thought that things were getting better in China until they came to the US to see what they were fully missing.

There is a level of progress that is felt in China but once they see what the rest of the world still has they realize that there is a length to still go. However according to them that is not to discount that the China of today is definitely different than the China of ten years ago.

me? I see a long ways to go... but I do not live there so I honestly have other things on my plate.

No, he should have been allowed to stay here, but that's another thread. Maybe this one can be combined with that one later. :D

But here's something. I would think that these people that were allowed to immigrate from China were privileged. If you can leave China and come to live in the US, no doubt you are a person with advantages, and probably that belief in the positive changes in China is partly a result of living with those advantages, and partly the result of being of a class of people that usually tries to be pro-government anyway.

I don't know. I'm just guessing. But obviously it's not possible for everyone in China to move to the US, so they must be wealthy and connected by the standards of that society.

No, he should have been allowed to stay here, but that's another thread. Maybe this one can be combined with that one later. :D

But here's something. I would think that these people that were allowed to immigrate from China were privileged. If you can leave China and come to live in the US, no doubt you are a person with advantages, and probably that belief in the positive changes in China is partly a result of living with those advantages, and partly the result of being of a class of people that usually tries to be pro-government anyway.

I don't know. I'm just guessing. But obviously it's not possible for everyone in China to move to the US, so they must be wealthy and connected by the standards of that society.

Some may simply not know any better... boy in the cave experiment and all.

Some may simply not know any better... boy in the cave experiment and all.

are you talking about Plato? I read that he was into that boy in the cave experiment big time. But that's for another thread. :D

are you talking about Plato? I read that he was into that boy in the cave experiment big time. But that's for another thread. :D

What happened in the dialogues stays in the dialogues.

The arrogance of Chinese Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong to call protesters "disgusting" shows that the message that China must change it's position on human rights to be accepted by the international community is not getting through. It's a shame that the athletes are being cheated by having the moment they've worked for wind up tainted by political concerns, but this is a chance to send a message, and we must boycott the Olympics. The United States will send athletes, and Bush may even attend the opening ceremonies, but as consumers, as individuals, we can say make our feelings known.

Here is a small section of the story. Click the link to read the whole thing.

China condemns Olympic torch relay disruptions (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080410/tc_nm/olympics_torch_dc)

China's ambassador to the United States condemned a purported attempt to disrupt the U.S. leg of the Beijing Olympic torch relay, saying such "disgusting" conduct was doomed to fail, state media said on Thursday.

The torch's only stop in North America turned into a game of hide-and-seek on Wednesday as the San Francisco route was abruptly changed by city officials, angering anti-China protesters and disappointing supporters.

Thousands of people converged along the scenic Embarcadero waterfront route in the city. But after the opening ceremony, the first runner, flanked by blue-clad Chinese security officials, carried the torch into a warehouse.

The torch eventually turned up miles away from the original planned route.

"A tiny group of people ignored the spirit of the Olympic charter and tried to disrupt and sabotage the Beijing Olympic Games," the official Xinhua news agency quoted Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong as saying. He did not elaborate on the purported plot.

The group also tried to "damage Sino-U.S. relations and tarnish China's image. This disgusting conduct is unpopular and doomed to fail," Zhou said without elaborating.

The torch was a magnet last week for chaotic demonstrations in London and Paris over China's human rights record and a recent government crackdown on monk-led protests in Tibet.

Groups unhappy about China's human rights record and its policies on Sudan's Darfur region have sought to pressure Beijing as it prepares to host the Olympics in August.

Bush and other Western leaders are facing a delicate balancing act as calls mount for them to boycott the Olympics opening ceremony.

The route for the torch relay on May 2 in Hong Kong, its first stop in China, will be cut short "to avoid embarrassing scenes," Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported, quoting an unnamed government source.

(Additional reporting by Duncan Martell, Robert Galbraith, Erin Siegal and Philipp Gollner in San Francisco, Richard Cowan in Washington, Guo Shipeng and Nick Mulvenney in Beijing and John Ruwitch in Hong Kong; Editing by Ken Wills and David Fogarty)
Dave, I think this is going to get really hairy. I feel a sense of unease about this whole thing. What could be EMBARRASSING about a torch relay? How can we boycott something so huge?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/oyeterence/spo_46.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/oyeterence/spo_46.jpg

Exactly! :eek:

Generally Olympic sports are so boring.

There is no GB football team and Cricket is not an olympic sport, what else is there?

I dont think i will watch anything but the mens 100 metres final.

Yep i will give this Olympics less than 10 seconds of my time. I reckon its taken longer to write this post.

Generally Olympic sports are so boring.

There is no GB football team and Cricket is not an olympic sport, what else is there?

I dont think i will watch anything but the mens 100 metres final.

Yep i will give this Olympics less than 10 seconds of my time. I reckon its taken longer to write this post.

I actually like the Winter Olympics more.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/oyeterence/spo_46.jpg

Will that be an event?

Perhaps broadcast on "The Ocho"

Will that be an event?

Perhaps broadcast on "The Ocho"

50jVa25gmWs

the strangest "sports" i have seen on cable was an actual rock,paper,scissors world championship and a mini golf championship.

Boycotting this would have been the wrong thing to do imo. It's completely unfair on those sportspeople who have trained for years so they can compete in this, they shouldn't be used as some sort of political tool.

one more...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/oyeterence/spo_50.jpg

What would I like to see happen? I'd like to see the Chinese government release the Panchen Lama who has been held since he was 11. To stop arresting and beating Tibetans.

They didn't break any laws?


If they could case the periodic media blackouts in Tibet. If they could give the people of Tibet autonomy to govern themselves as they choose as they had for decades before the Chinese occupation.

Would that be constitutional?

if they would allow the Dalai Lama, leader of the Tibetan people safe passage back to his native land instead of imposed exile. (Along with a large number of tibetan expatriates.) I think that would be a pretty good start.

Why did they sent him in exile?

Apparantley four billion people were going to be tuning into the opening ceremony.

I think boycotting the olympics is like asking the sun not to shine.

Many people were left homeless because the government kicked them out of "their" house... As if the Tibet issue wasn't enough. Tiber won't be free, at least not very soon, China gets a lot of money from there and they surely don't want to give it up and with a communist government? Even less possible... That's just my view anyways... I never cared about the olympics anyways.

Ummm... What time is basketball on?

Dave, I think this is going to get really hairy. I feel a sense of unease about this whole thing. What could be EMBARRASSING about a torch relay? How can we boycott something so huge?

We can boycott by not watching, not buying any products associated with it, and by talking about why. China is a horrible place for human rights, not to mention animal rights. The cruelty that is commonplace in the animal "processing" industries there is sickening. Of course we can't talk about that or the flesheaters will squeal like stuck pigs, so let's just concentrate on the secret executions the government carries out there on a regular basis, and how the people are tortured until they confess and then murdered in groups in secret locations, unobserved and unregulated, and it's all legal.

Boycotting this would have been the wrong thing to do imo. It's completely unfair on those sportspeople who have trained for years so they can compete in this, they shouldn't be used as some sort of political tool.

They already ARE being used as political tools to tell us how wonderful life is in China. It's nice to try to separate politics from world events involving many countries with different beliefs and so forth, but the host country receives lots of benefits especially in the way it is perceived by the rest of the world. It's impossible for it not to be political.

Apparantley four billion people were going to be tuning into the opening ceremony.

I think boycotting the olympics is like asking the sun not to shine.

But you don't have to. I think that this idea that "something horrible is happening but there is nothing I can do about it" is crippling our ability to control our world to whatever extent we can. I might think it's more and you might think it's less, but it's very important to care and not give up. They want you to give up.

They didn't break any laws?

The Panchen Lama's only crime was being born. China claims the right to choose who is appointed as a new Lama. According to Tibetan belief the Lama's are not simply appointed individuals but reincarnated spirits that have ascended to a higher plane but have chosen to return to guide us. So theres' sort of an inherent conflict. the Panchen Lama was abducted when he was about 11, he's been refferrede to as the worlds' "youngest political prisoner." He'd be about my age now. I hardly think being chosen as a religious leader justifies the imprisonment of an 11 year old boy, if that answers you're question, I don't think thats' a stretch. As for the protests, most are entirely nonviolent as Tibetans, being hardcore Buddhists generally regard violence as a heinous sin. For simply standing in a public square with a sign or shouting "Free Tibet" or "Long Live the Dalai Lama!" these people can be imprisoned, tortured, even executed.Now Chinese law forbids such expressions, but why should that matter? It is a, sadly, contagious mental disease to think the law has some kind of inherent validity because it exists. In Germany in the 1930's and 40's there was a legally defined organized pogram to extinguish human lives on an almost unprecedented scale, does it MATTER that this was legal? We all know what the rules are, and there have been international agreements and statements of basic human rights, it isn't rocket science.

Would that be constitutional?

According to the Chinese constitution? Definitely not. As fotr why this shouldn't matter, see above.

Why did they sent him in exile?

You're making me brush up on my history, no problem there. I know Tibet was an independant state from about 1900 to the 1950's or 60's when the communists clamped down and took it over. Basically he has no choice but to live in exile as China has no desire for an independant Tibet, and would arrest him or anyone else who tried to oppose they're government, if not worse.

Is this satisfactory?

Just got home

Boxing is on.

Degale for the Brits is putting a whuppin' on Egypt.

Just got home

Boxing is on.

Degale for the Brits is putting a whuppin' on Egypt.

Which is better, the pyramids or Stonehenge?

http://www.deltatoursegypt.com/images/tours_pic/2.jpg http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/images/Stonehenge.jpg

Which is better, the pyramids or Stonehenge?

Interesting question... one which may require further debate and a poll... Of course if I created a topic that "too" may bring down the server.

I go with the Pyramids. While people may want to boycot all of Egypt from all things camels to cotton because of the T Shirt "Slavery Gets Shit Done"*, I recognize the mathematical and technological achievement that it took to get those things built. Truly majestic they also offer a link to the human mind on theories that no matter what the environment offers we all have the same ideas and abilities as demonstrated with the similar Mayan temples in South America.


* For reference
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/stpdrckr420/SLAVERY.png

The Panchen Lama's only crime was being born. China claims the right to choose who is appointed as a new Lama. According to Tibetan belief the Lama's are not simply appointed individuals but reincarnated spirits that have ascended to a higher plane but have chosen to return to guide us. So theres' sort of an inherent conflict. the Panchen Lama was abducted when he was about 11, he's been refferrede to as the worlds' "youngest political prisoner." He'd be about my age now. I hardly think being chosen as a religious leader justifies the imprisonment of an 11 year old boy, if that answers you're question, I don't think thats' a stretch

Why don't people just ask the authorities to "free Panchen Lama", that would be a whole lot more understandable than the vague "Free Tibet" which I'm still not sure what means.


As for the protests, most are entirely nonviolent as Tibetans, being hardcore Buddhists generally regard violence as a heinous sin. For simply standing in a public square with a sign or shouting "Free Tibet" or "Long Live the Dalai Lama!" these people can be imprisoned, tortured, even executed.Now Chinese law forbids such expressions, but why should that matter? It is a, sadly, contagious mental disease to think the law has some kind of inherent validity because it exists. In Germany in the 1930's and 40's there was a legally defined organized pogram to extinguish human lives on an almost unprecedented scale, does it MATTER that this was legal? We all know what the rules are, and there have been international agreements and statements of basic human rights, it isn't rocket science.

Oh, right, I read about the Tibetan understanding of non-violence. See one of my previous posts. It's quite entertaining!

So when you say "Free Tibet", you actually mean "Free speech in China"?


According to the Chinese constitution? Definitely not. As fotr why this shouldn't matter, see above.



You're making me brush up on my history, no problem there. I know Tibet was an independant state from about 1900 to the 1950's or 60's when the communists clamped down and took it over. Basically he has no choice but to live in exile as China has no desire for an independant Tibet, and would arrest him or anyone else who tried to oppose they're government, if not worse.

Is this satisfactory?

What was happening with Tibet prior to 1900?

So when you say "Free Tibet" you actually mean "change Chinese constitution and the internal organization of their country", right?

Women's soccer is on.

Team USA vs Team Japan.

Interesting question... one which may require further debate and a poll... Of course if I created a topic that "too" may bring down the server.

I go with the Pyramids. While people may want to boycot all of Egypt from all things camels to cotton because of the T Shirt "Slavery Gets Shit Done"*, I recognize the mathematical and technological achievement that it took to get those things built. Truly majestic they also offer a link to the human mind on theories that no matter what the environment offers we all have the same ideas and abilities as demonstrated with the similar Mayan temples in South America.


* For reference
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/stpdrckr420/SLAVERY.png

Actually the Egyptians were African-American and UFO's built the pyramids.

Actually the Egyptians were African-American and UFO's built the pyramids.

Uh uh....

Transdimensional beings from the space between the space actually instructed the ancient civilizations in South America how to build the pyramids.

http://www.altfg.com/Stars/i/indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull-ford.jpg


So did you hear the latest claims that we broke the internet?

Uh uh....

Transdimensional beings from the space between the space actually instructed the ancient civilizations in South America how to build the pyramids.

http://www.altfg.com/Stars/i/indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull-ford.jpg


So did you hear the latest claims that we broke the internet?

yes, If that did happen, it was like a test of the system, and I would like a special title like "system tester alpha team eagle one".

yes, If that did happen, it was like a test of the system, and I would like a special title like "system tester alpha team eagle one".

Cool -

I have no problem then of taking the title of "System Tester Beta: Team Eagle One."

Kewpie, will it be in poor taste to create a topic in Site Suggestions to nominate Dave and myself for this position, title and perks that come with the position?

Why don't people just ask the authorities to "free Panchen Lama",

People do, see?

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n47/Jessicayoung_2006/panchenlamacustom9wj8rbim1.jpg

that would be a whole lot more understandable than the vague "Free Tibet" which I'm still not sure what means.

I'm beginning to think thats' a willful misunderstanding, it isn't THAT complex, but, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The case of the Panchen Lama is one small facet of a larger problem, the occupation and domination of Tibet.

Oh, right, I read about the Tibetan understanding of non-violence. See one of my previous posts. It's quite entertaining!

You found one incident of Tibetan violence. Hardly an acheivement. This proves nothing. The formal leadership of Tibet, led by the Dalai Lama, is pacifist, as are many of the Tibetan people. Who are, again, oppressed, mind. How many incidences of violence have been perpetrated against them? How many people does China execute annually. Check out what amnesty International has been reporting about the Chinese government.

So when you say "Free Tibet", you actually mean "Free speech in China"?

What was happening with Tibet prior to 1900?

I'm going to answer these together because the answer is essentially the same. Tibet was an INDEPENDANT, SEPERATE state around 1900, they signed treaties with foreign nations and was recognized as a seperate entity. Tibet existed as a seperate entity until the 1950's when the Chinese Communist party annexed it, ending in 1959. Maybe you're asserting that Tibet is an illegitimate country. I'd ask you how many years it takes, and how many foreign nations have to recognize a country before it fulfills the requirements of the word? By such standards Israel most likely could not be considered a country.
Also, incidentally, I DO support free speech for the people of china because I happen to believe all people have the right to liberty, but thats' a different, albiet related, issue.

So when you say "Free Tibet" you actually mean "change Chinese constitution and the internal organization of their country", right?

Only if you consider the disollution of the independant Tibet legitimate, which you'd have to justify, otherwise, it's a campaign for the liberation of a conquered state.

Boxing Badminton and Volleyball are on.

People do, see?

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n47/Jessicayoung_2006/panchenlamacustom9wj8rbim1.jpg



I'm beginning to think thats' a willful misunderstanding, it isn't THAT complex, but, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The case of the Panchen Lama is one small facet of a larger problem, the occupation and domination of Tibet.



You found one incident of Tibetan violence. Hardly an acheivement. This proves nothing. The formal leadership of Tibet, led by the Dalai Lama, is pacifist, as are many of the Tibetan people. Who are, again, oppressed, mind. How many incidences of violence have been perpetrated against them? How many people does China execute annually. Check out what amnesty International has been reporting about the Chinese government.



I'm going to answer these together because the answer is essentially the same. Tibet was an INDEPENDANT, SEPERATE state around 1900, they signed treaties with foreign nations and was recognized as a seperate entity. Tibet existed as a seperate entity until the 1950's when the Chinese Communist party annexed it, ending in 1959. Maybe you're asserting that Tibet is an illegitimate country. I'd ask you how many years it takes, and how many foreign nations have to recognize a country before it fulfills the requirements of the word? By such standards Israel most likely could not be considered a country.
Also, incidentally, I DO support free speech for the people of china because I happen to believe all people have the right to liberty, but thats' a different, albiet related, issue.



Only if you consider the disollution of the independant Tibet legitimate, which you'd have to justify, otherwise, it's a campaign for the liberation of a conquered state.

Aha, so "Free Tibet" means independent Tibet, Tibet as a sovereign country! Why didn't you just say so immediately? You didn't have to go through all this trouble to explain other things.

However... didn't Dalai Lama say that Tibet shouldn't be independent? I'm sure he did, he never asked for independence. Now again I don't know what "Free Tibet" means.

NBC (Prime) - Mens Gymnastics (apparently Russians do not smile)
NBC (Universal Hi Def) - European Handball (Coratia v Spain)
USA - Basketball (Argentina v Lithuania) tight game

Basketball it is.

They already ARE being used as political tools to tell us how wonderful life is in China. It's nice to try to separate politics from world events involving many countries with different beliefs and so forth, but the host country receives lots of benefits especially in the way it is perceived by the rest of the world. It's impossible for it not to be political.

?
At least they are competing, that's the point. To deny them of this is just :rolleyes: imo. People can see China isn't a happy smiley place etc for themselves, the wrong-doings are out there to see for yourself, some admittedly harder to find than others but as far as I can see is amongst everybody I know, we are all agreed that China has it's wrongdoings but we'll watch the Olympics. Tbh, there wouldn't be any Olympics if we boycotted for everything, where do you draw the line.
I'll just enjoy watching this without any guilt that I'm supporting a questionable government and just focus on the athletes, thanks.

?
At least they are competing, that's the point. To deny them of this is just :rolleyes: imo. People can see China isn't a happy smiley place etc for themselves, the wrong-doings are out there to see for yourself, some admittedly harder to find than others but as far as I can see is amongst everybody I know, we are all agreed that China has it's wrongdoings but we'll watch the Olympics. Tbh, there wouldn't be any Olympics if we boycotted for everything, where do you draw the line.
I'll just enjoy watching this without any guilt that I'm supporting a questionable government and just focus on the athletes, thanks.

You're asking "where do you draw the line" which leads me to ask you the same question. "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything."

btw, I'm not saying that our athletes should be banned from performing at the Olympics. They need to get their Wheaties covers and Nike endorsements, too. I'm saying that people should not watch or buy anything associated with and should let sponsors know how they feel. It really would make a statement if the athletes chose not to perform but I wouldn't expect that.

Stay classy, Spanish basketball team:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/spainadvert110808_450x266.jpg (http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/other/article.html?in_article_id=258985&in_page_id=52)

What I'm saying is that we, as consumers, should not watch the Olympics and should not buy any Olympic merchandise. Those are things you can do by not doing anything except being observant. Then if people feel they can take the time, we could write to sponsors that will be using the Olympic symbol on their products, especially, or just buying ads during the broadcasts, and tell them that we won't be buying these products.

It doesn't appear that Dave's boycott of the Olympics has brought the corporations of the world to their knees.

Why should I not watch the Olympics? That was one fantastic 4X100 relay race at the swimming cube last night! Maybe the greatest swimming race to ever take place.

Does anyone believe for one second that Dave and these other clowns are actually gonna boycott all the companies advertising their products during the Olympics? Let's see the list, Dave. What is the list of companies you will no longer buy products from because they advertised during the Olympics. Are you really gonna stick with this? Show us copies of the letters you wrote to all the sponsors of the Olympics. Something tells me you didn't write a single one, but maybe I'm wrong, so lets see them. And lets see the list you've compiled of all the companies that advertised on the Olympics, as you have pledged not to buy any products from any companies that sponsored the Olympics. Given this pledge, you must have this list handy to share. Does anyone actually believe that Dave won't be buying any products from any company that advertised during the Olympics? And that he's busy firing off nutty letters to them? If Dave has written these letters, it should take him just a few minutes to paste the text of them in this thread.

Meanwhile, the USA Swim Team is sensational! I'm glad I'm watching. They shut those French fucks up who tried to talk smack.

I'll start the list.

Honda advertised during the Games. Dave can no longer ever buy a Honda product again.

And Coca-Cola. Dave will be a fraud if he ever buys a Coca-Cola product again.


And Kodak. Dave can never buy another Kodak product again. They defied his boycott.

Adidas, too. No more Adidas products for Dave.

UPS. Dave better never again mail anything by UPS.

Johnson & Johnsom. You're done with all Johnson & johnson products, Dave.

Same with General Electric.

And VISA. If Dave has a VISA card he'd better cut it up now.

We need a full and complete list, so the boycotters know what companies they must avoid. We know they're sincere and they will never spend another penny towards the products of these companies again. They defied the big boycott!!!

I'll start the list.

Honda advertised during the Games. Dave can no longer ever buy a Honda product again.

And Coca-Cola. Dave will be a fraud if he ever buys a Coca-Cola product again.


And Kodak. Dave can never buy another Kodak product again. They defied his boycott.

Adidas, too. No more Adidas products for Dave.

UPS. Dave better never again mail anything by UPS.

Johnson & Johnsom. You're done with all Johnson & johnson products, Dave.

Same with General Electric.

And VISA. If Dave has a VISA card he'd better cut it up now.

We need a full and complete list, so the boycotters know what companies they must avoid. We know they're sincere and they will never spend another penny towards the products of these companies again. They defied the big boycott!!!

Thanks for the list, Theo. This is actually helpful.
If I already own some of these products what should I do?

Thanks for the list, Theo. This is actually helpful.
If I already own some of these products what should I do?



Dave, what companies have you written letters to so far, and can you post the text of these letters here?

Then if people feel they can take the time, we could write to sponsors that will be using the Olympic symbol on their products, especially, or just buying ads during the broadcasts, and tell them that we won't be buying these products.



I'm not sure why Dave (who is online in the forum right now, despite being invisible) is taking so long in posting who he wrote these letters to as well as posting the text of these letters. I hope he's not one of these jokers who tells others what they should do but just sits on his ass himself.

Then if people feel they can take the time, we could write to sponsors that will be using the Olympic symbol on their products, especially, or just buying ads during the broadcasts, and tell them that we won't be buying these products.


I was ready to fire off some angry letters to sponsors, but Dave - our leader in this boycott - has let me down. I guess he was full of shit, as usual.

I was ready to fire off some angry letters to sponsors, but Dave - our leader in this boycott - has let me down. I guess he was full of shit, as usual.

I'm not a leader, Theo, at least not in this case. I do find it interesting how often you use the words "ass" and "shit", though. It seems to go along with what you once wrote here about how you have a habit of using your webcam to record yourself in the act of defecating or urinating on religious documents and then posting these recordings to harass your fellow Internet users.

I think it's strange that a person that does this would be offended when he is named as a known troll. To fight this charge you have alternated between posting "helpful" threads which you let us know are helpful thus not at all troll-like, and then posting bizarre rants and demanding to see my private documents.

The whole thing goes beyond the obvious fact that you are a known troll. That doesn't even matter. What matters is that you should try to relax and find a way to turn your hateful and angry feelings into positive energy, possibly by suggesting some sort of action that the rest of us might consider taking to make the world a better place.

I'm not that shocked that you are coming out in defense of the totalitarian regime of China, as you, after all, are something of a George Bush apologist, or at least the pundits whose words you copy and paste here are. Still, you claim to be a libertarian while supporting people that do not believe in human rights. I guess this confusion is not that surprising coming from one who expresses himself with bodily functions.

I'm not that shocked that you are coming out in defense of the totalitarian regime of China, as you, after all, are something of a George Bush apologist, or at least the pundits whose words you copy and paste here are. Still, you claim to be a libertarian while supporting people that do not believe in human rights. I guess this confusion is not that surprising coming from one who expresses himself with bodily functions.


I'd like to know where I have ever come out in support of the commie regime of China?

I'd like to know what you meant by my screenname being a "troll's name"????

I'd like to know why it seems you never actually fired off all these letters to sponsors of the Olympics, since you created this thread urging everyone else to do so.

I'd like to know what is wrong with desecrating a Koran (kindly sent to me by CAIR for free, along with a wacko letter informing me how to properly handle the Koran so as not to desecrate it -- which only made it irresistable not to desecrate it) on private web cam when I'm in a Yahoo room full off terrorist supporters who are saying on mic how cool it was when the Twin Towers came down?

I think I've mentioned plenty of times that I don't like the commie Chinese government. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna not watch the Olympic Games, or boycott every product of every company that sponsors the Olympic Games. Unlike you, Dave, I agree with the statesman wisdom of George W. Bush on the Olympics. As he said to Bob Costas, the Games are bringing people from all over the world to China, and it can help the country further open up and become a more civizlized nation. As far as believing in human rights, since you have always defended Muslim nations and terrorist groups that despise human rights, most especially the rights of women, and since you could never admit that it was actually Isalmic terrorists and not Bush who committed the atrocity against humanity that was 9/11, I think it's pretty laughable for you to pose as the big advocate of human rights.

I have said constantly on this board that my heroine on the world's stage is Ayaan Hirsi Ali (there's a connection between her and my screen name to show just how much I love her, a name you claim - like the stupid ass you are - is a "troll's name"). She's someone leftoids like you have always ignored while you champion idiots like George Galloway and Hugo Chavez. And you make a big mistake when you confuse supporting the Iraqi people in their liberation from a Baathist fascist and genocidal regime with being an apologist for W. Bush. I know that nothing good would be happening in Iraq if you had your way. I also know that both presidential candidates in the last presidential election supported the invasion of Iraq, but Kerry was a scumbucket who voted for or against military actions based on what was good for Kerry, not the nation or the world. So Bush was the better choice. Now that we're finding out that Kerry's running mate (John Edwards) was fucking an airheaded whore who was obsessed with astrology and New Age spiritualism while his wife had cancer, that choice seems better than ever today.

All of the replies above avoid the point of the thread, Dave. You started this thread calling for a big boycott of the Olympic Games in Beijing. You urged everyone to fire off angry letters to any company that sponsors the Games. You urged everyone to stop buying products from any company that sponsors the Games. Well, you should be posting your list of these companies. And you should be posting examples of the letters you have already sent off. But you don't. Because you're just a lot of talk on a message board. You haven't sent any letters. Just admit it. If you had, you'd have been eager to post the text of the letters in this thread, instead of making personal attacks. This whole thread is a fraud.

I'd like to know where I have ever come out in support of the commie regime of China?

I'd like to know what you meant by my screenname being a "troll's name"????

I'd like to know why it seems you never actually fired off all these letters to sponsors of the Olympics, since you created this thread urging everyone else to do so.

I'd like to know what is wrong with desecrating a Koran (kindly sent to me by CAIR for free, along with a wacko letter informing me how to properly handle the Koran so as not to desecrate it -- which only made it irresistable not to desecrate it) on private web cam when I'm in a Yahoo room full off terrorist supporters who are saying on mic how cool it was when the Twin Towers came down?

I think I've mentioned plenty of times that I don't like the commie Chinese government. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna not watch the Olympic Games, or boycott every product of every company that sponsors the Olympic Games. Unlike you, Dave, I agree with the statesman wisdom of George W. Bush on the Olympics. As he said to Bob Costas, the Games are bringing people from all over the world to China, and it can help the country further open up and become a more civizlized nation. As far as believing in human rights, since you have always defended Muslim nations and terrorist groups that despise human rights, most especially the rights of women, and since you could never admit that it was actually Isalmic terrorists and not Bush who committed the atrocity against humanity that was 9/11, I think it's pretty laughable for you to pose as the big advocate of human rights.

I have said constantly on this board that my heroine on the world's stage is Ayaan Hirsi Ali, someone leftoids like you have always ignored while you champion idiots like George Galloway and Hugo Chavez. And you make a big mistake when you confuse supporting the Iraqi people in their liberation from a Baathist fascist and genocidal regime with being an apologist for W. Bush. I know that nothing good would be happening in Iraq if you had your way. I also know that both presidential candidates in the last presidential election supported the invasion of Iraq, but Kerry was a scumbucket who voted for or against military actions based on what was good for Kerry, not the nation or the world. So Bush was the better choice. Now that we're finding out that Kerry's running mate (John Edwards) was fucking an airheaded whore who was obsessed with astrology and New Age spiritualism while his wife had cancer, that choice seems better than ever today.

All of replies above avoid the point of the thread, Dave. You started this thread calling for a big boycott of the Olympic Games in Beijing. You urged everyone to fire off angry letters to any company that sponsors the Games. You urged everyone to stop buying products from any company that sponsors the Games. Well, you should be posting your list of these companies. And you should be posting examples of the letters you have already sent off. But you don't. Because you're just a lot of talk on a message board. You haven't sent any letters. Just admit it. If you had, you'd have been eager to post the text of the letters in this thread, instead of making personal attacks. This whole thread is a fraud.

Theo, you are a known troll. And thank you for reaffirming that you actually do webcam yourself "shitting and pissing on the Koran". You can dress it up how you want to, that it was "terrorist supporters" that you were trying to offend, but seriously, if you can't "resist" such actions there is an issue that goes far beyond politics. I'm not putting you down for having issues. I think we all do. But I would seriously suggest that you get the perspective of someone that cares for your health, and that you trust, and talk about this, because it's not healthy. Best of luck in this area.

Oh, poor Dave condemns someone who invited Muslim fundamentalists who admire Muslim terrorism to watch a Koran get pissed on on cam.

Like I care.

There was a time when Morrissey forums had punk rockers who wouldn't freak out over a little piss on a holy book.

Then douchebags like you came from MorrisseyMusic.Com, where you were banned for posting slide shows of people's posting histories to "expose them" as "trolls".

Your alliance with Kewpie may get me unjustly banned any day now. Until then, I am here and will keep posting. Your Olympic boycott was a joke, but keep changing the subject after 8 phoney thread pages of bullshit.

Dave said my screenname is a troll's name.

Theo comes from Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker who made the feminist film Submission with Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Theo van Gogh was stabbed to death while bicycling by a Muslim barbarian, and stabbed into him was a death threat note to Hirsi Ali.

Dave tells me this is a "troll's name".

No, I'm just named after a hero of mine.

Dave also told me that I was trolling over Jerry Finn's hospitalization. Hmm. I find that offensive considering how upset I have been over Finn, someone I admire. My one message (under my main page name LoafingOaf) in the main page thread about that was a very sincere message about Finn and how much the music he produced (in the pop-punk scene) meant to me. In this message board, I also expressed how much I like Finn's work, including and beyond his work with Morrissey. I also happened to be the person who provided DavidT with the facts for his first main page post on the subject, which I was credited for. Dave sees this and starts trolling me around the forum about it. He's a douchebag. I guess it bothers him that I attacked Kewpie for her coldness over the matter, but the fact is that numerous other forum members felt the same exact thing about Kewpie and said so. Dave also highlighted a post I made when we were first learning of Finn's hospitalization, where I was wondering why so few SoLowers seemed to care. I still wonder. Sorry. If I had posted a never-seen-before pic of Morrissey's ass, all the groupies around here would've gone spastic. It's a different culture on SoLow nowadays. People like Kewpie and Dave have run the best away.

Dave can stop trolling me at any time.

Did anyone actually take the time to see where the money goes?
http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/facts/revenue/index_uk.asp

What some people forget is that the sponsors money goes towards the funding of sports that otherwise would get little to no attention in the United States. Aside from funding direct training for athletes in certain events, it enables some sports to generate enough attention that colleges are willing to divert some of the funding to create athletic scholarships in sports that do not have big market pro leagues. When was the last time that you turned on mainstream TV to see events such as Rowing, Water Polo, Field Hockey, the Luge, Bobsled and Kayaking among others? While these athletes may never benefit from pro leagues and big contracts in their sport, colleges and universities offer placement and tuition to students so they can get an education that they may not be able to afford otherwise.

Speaking as someone who had benefitted from doors that were open to me because of athletic scholarship (for swimming), I can say firsthand that IOC creates interest and opportunities for people. The Olympic Games are bigger than China. Regimes, governments have come and gone but the Olympics continue.

Bush IS correct in noting that the Olympics puts China on a world stage. When you are in the spotlight you do your best not to muck things up while the audience watches. Many news agencies have reported that China has come further in the past 20 years since the Tiananmen Square debacle forced China to being instituting internal changes. China has come a lot further since the world's response to "Tank Man," than it did in the days of Chairman Mao up to that point in 1989.

Incidentally, I chose the academic scholarship to a local University over the athletic as I realized I was fast but not Olympic fast.

I was at a Free Tibet vigil on wednesday, the other activists informed me that according to human rights groups theres' been about 400+ Tibetans killed since this March. I had hoped during the procession of the torch and the Olympic games the repression would slow down a bit. It looks like it might actually be getting worse. :(

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/grimshadows/Tibet/banchineseolympics.jpg

I was at a Free Tibet vigil on wednesday, the other activists informed me that according to human rights groups theres' been about 400+ Tibetans killed since this March. I had hoped during the procession of the torch and the Olympic games the repression would slow down a bit. It looks like it might actually be getting worse. :(

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/grimshadows/Tibet/banchineseolympics.jpg

I thought you might like this.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2r6je5z.jpg

Did anyone actually take the time to see where the money goes?
http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/facts/revenue/index_uk.asp

What some people forget is that the sponsors money goes towards the funding of sports that otherwise would get little to no attention in the United States. Aside from funding direct training for athletes in certain events, it enables some sports to generate enough attention that colleges are willing to divert some of the funding to create athletic scholarships in sports that do not have big market pro leagues. When was the last time that you turned on mainstream TV to see events such as Rowing, Water Polo, Field Hockey, the Luge, Bobsled and Kayaking among others? While these athletes may never benefit from pro leagues and big contracts in their sport, colleges and universities offer placement and tuition to students so they can get an education that they may not be able to afford otherwise.

Speaking as someone who had benefitted from doors that were open to me because of athletic scholarship (for swimming), I can say firsthand that IOC creates interest and opportunities for people. The Olympic Games are bigger than China. Regimes, governments have come and gone but the Olympics continue.

Bush IS correct in noting that the Olympics puts China on a world stage. When you are in the spotlight you do your best not to muck things up while the audience watches. Many news agencies have reported that China has come further in the past 20 years since the Tiananmen Square debacle forced China to being instituting internal changes. China has come a lot further since the world's response to "Tank Man," than it did in the days of Chairman Mao up to that point in 1989.

Incidentally, I chose the academic scholarship to a local University over the athletic as I realized I was fast but not Olympic fast.

I don't see it this way. Some sponsorship money goes to create opportunities for athletes, sure. A whole lot of it goes to television advertising. Besides there has to be a way for the companies to sponsor athletes, and still get their advertising dollars worth without adding to the prestige of the Chinese government.

China probably is advancing in some ways and maybe they are not going to get there overnight, but I thought that allowing them to host the Olympics was wrong. Maybe they should have had some sort of event based on "Tank Man" though.

I thought you might like this.



Nice one. I think this is my fav, though...

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r320/Mz-Me0w/tibet.jpg

I say boycott the 2012 games in London. Their food is atrocious.

I don't see it this way. Some sponsorship money goes to create opportunities for athletes, sure. A whole lot of it goes to television advertising. Besides there has to be a way for the companies to sponsor athletes, and still get their advertising dollars worth without adding to the prestige of the Chinese government.

China probably is advancing in some ways and maybe they are not going to get there overnight, but I thought that allowing them to host the Olympics was wrong. Maybe they should have had some sort of event based on "Tank Man" though.

Running with the tanks such as Spain's "Running with the Bulls" perhaps?