It's crunch time for Morrissey...

[Maurice E]

An underperforming single mauled by the critics (possibly worst reception since Roy’s Keen), and ignored by many fans.
Accused, nationally, of being a ‘big-quiffed bigot’ with ‘dodgy views on immigration’.
An aborted tour.
Album sales in decline (Quarry 350,000, ROTT 150,000), Greatest Hits shock departure from top 30 after one week despite huge promotional campaign (TV, Radio, billboards, music press).

Moz now needs, more than ever, to deliver a fantastic album to stop the, err, rot. Not a ‘quite good’ album with one or two really good songs.
A consistently brilliant album stuffed with magical melodies, insightful and contemporary lyrics, and imaginative arrangements. Come on Moz!

[vivabob]

i dont think many fans ignored the single , i agree that he needs a good album to keep the momentum going

the greatest hits didnt sell well due to all the fact the songs mostly have been released in the past 4 years , anyone with a passsing interest would have bought them

the tour being aborted is nonsense , yes dates were cancelled but it wasnt aborted - life exists outside london , i think looking at the roundhouse dates a lot of people didnt realise that . Phill made a good point when trying to organise going to see some of the french dates , who wants to spend time at the same venue in london when you can see the world

i dont think its crunch time though , possibly after malajusted but not now , he has proved himself to be an institution ,, he's hardly living hand to mouth and i belive that the support he has now will continue to support him long into retirement

[Maurice E]

i dont think many fans ignored the single , i agree that he needs a good album to keep the momentum going

the greatest hits didnt sell well due to all the fact the songs mostly have been released in the past 4 years , anyone with a passsing interest would have bought them

the tour being aborted is nonsense , yes dates were cancelled but it wasnt aborted - life exists outside london , i think looking at the roundhouse dates a lot of people didnt realise that . Phill made a good point when trying to organise going to see some of the french dates , who wants to spend time at the same venue in london when you can see the world

i dont think its crunch time though , possibly after malajusted but not now , he has proved himself to be an institution ,, he's hardly living hand to mouth and i belive that the support he has now will continue to support him long into retirement

Fair comments about the tour.
I ran a poll about the single though and a lot of us didn't bother buying it. About a third I think.
Moz will always be able to tour and always has done, even in the so called 'wilderness years' he toured every couple of years. But when he tours without new material, he becomes a nostalgia act, singing to an ageing fanbase. He doesn't want that.
If album sales continue to decline at the current rate (i.e. new album sells half as many as ROTT), very few record companies will make him an offer he would consider acceptable.
So I do think it kind of is crunchtime. We really need a brilliant album from Morrissey. Let's hope he can deliver...

[maybe]

The GH album didn't sell well because it's just that - a Greatest Hits album with a shit tracklisting. I'm surprised that it even charted that high, and as for the fall to #30 something in the second week... did anybody seriously expect anything else? That's a common occurrence with Morrissey albums. And while I personally like That's How People Grow Up I agree that it wasn't the best single to support the album, All You Need Is Me would have been better. Also, new b-sides probably would have boosted the sales.

Yes, the last three Roundhouse dates were cancelled - and? He was ill for Christ's sake. That happens. I can't believe people on here are still going on about it. Nobody I spoke to after the Friday show was angry or bitter, so all the negative comments on here were quite surprising.

Don't forget that the Quarry sales were that high because of the comeback factor and two outstanding singles. The hype was immense and the decline in sales afterwards was just natural. I think the Ringleader sales are more representative for a Morrissey album than the Quarry sales. He could make the best album of all time and wouldn't sell much more. He'd have to bring out the really big guns, similar to the comeback after the 7 year hiatus - the autobiography, a Smiths reunion (will never happen, just giving an example) or a headline like "Morrissey in Margaret Thatcher marriage shocker" :p or something else that grabs the general public's attention, then he could come close to YATQ's sales.

So no, I don't think it's crunch time in Morrisseyland - it's just back to normal now.

[SpookyMulder]

These comments are truly disgusting.

If you don't like it - GET OFF THE FORUM! This place is meant to be for fans, not vultures who circle & destroy the forum.

A quote on an earlier post says it all - a third of "fans" didn't buy the new single.

No - 100% of fans DID buy the single - the people who didn't aren't "fans".

It's only crunch time for Mozzer because of the very, very poor fanbase he seems to have. He's not letting you down - it's the other way around.

Idiots.

[vivabob]

Fair comments about the tour.
I ran a poll about the single though and a lot of us didn't bother buying it. About a third I think.
Moz will always be able to tour and always has done, even in the so called 'wilderness years' he toured every couple of years. But when he tours without new material, he becomes a nostalgia act, singing to an ageing fanbase. He doesn't want that.
If album sales continue to decline at the current rate (i.e. new album sells half as many as ROTT), very few record companies will make him an offer he would consider acceptable.
So I do think it kind of is crunchtime. We really need a brilliant album from Morrissey. Let's hope he can deliver...


i hear what your saying but i cant help but think that YATQ sold exceptionally well , but ROTT , wasnt excactlly in my opinion the most accessable of albums , especially for newer fans

it is also my opinion that after an amazing selling album the follow up is never deemed as good by the public and never sells as well

vivahate - kill uncle
vaxhall - southpaw
YATQ - ROTT

i understand where your comming from regarding the poll , but i'm quite sure people bought it but didnt do the poll , i think its one of his stronger singles , the problem with the single was the distribution - hmv , zavvi , fopp all sold out of the single by the wednesday , in quite a large number of areas ...., who sells out a single on its opening week .

i do have confidence the next album will be amazing but even if it is will it sell well ... who knows , in my view decca still need to prove them selfs by aiming for the new market not the old faithful

i wonder what the average age of the people on here is ... i bet its two quite clear groups , 16 - 19 and 30 - 40

[Walkers Crisp]

The GH album didn't sell well because it's just that - a Greatest Hits album with a shit tracklisting. I'm surprised that it even charted that high, and as for the fall to #30 something in the second week... did anybody seriously expect anything else? That's a common occurrence with Morrissey albums. And while I personally like That's How People Grow Up I agree that it wasn't the best single to support the album, All You Need Is Me would have been better. Also, new b-sides probably would have boosted the sales.

Yes, the last three Roundhouse dates were cancelled - and? He was ill for Christ's sake. That happens. I can't believe people on here are still going on about it. Nobody I spoke to after the Friday show was angry or bitter, so all the negative comments on here were quite surprising.

Don't forget that the Quarry sales were that high because of the comeback factor and two outstanding singles. The hype was immense and the decline in sales afterwards was just natural. I think the Ringleader sales are more representative for a Morrissey album than the Quarry sales. He could make the best album of all time and wouldn't sell much more. He'd have to bring out the really big guns, similar to the comeback after the 7 year hiatus - the autobiography, a Smiths reunion (will never happen, just giving an example) or a headline like "Morrissey in Margaret Thatcher marriage shocker" :p or something else that grabs the general public's attention, then he could come close to YATQ's sales.

So no, I don't think it's crunch time in Morrisseyland - it's just back to normal now.


Exactly my thoughts. Very well put, Madame Butterfly.

[Maurice E]

These comments are truly disgusting.

If you don't like it - GET OFF THE FORUM! This place is meant to be for fans, not vultures who circle & destroy the forum.

A quote on an earlier post says it all - a third of "fans" didn't buy the new single.

No - 100% of fans DID buy the single - the people who didn't aren't "fans".

It's only crunch time for Mozzer because of the very, very poor fanbase he seems to have. He's not letting you down - it's the other way around.

Idiots.

It could be argued that you are the one doing Moz the greatest dis-service by blindly buying everything he does, regardless of its quality.

Moz is obsessed with chart positions; ergo when a single does well, he assumes it’s because it’s a great song. That’s why he’s put rubbish like Redondo Beach on Greatest Hits instead of fantastic songs like November, Piccadilly and Sunny.

It may be a good thing that many people round here didn’t buy ‘That’s How People Grow Up. That way Moz knows, he really has got to put out much, much better songs...

[Jones]

It could be argued that you are the one doing Moz the greatest dis-service by blindly buying everything he does, regardless of its quality.

Moz is obsessed with chart positions; ergo when a single does well, he assumes it’s because it’s a great song. That’s why he’s put rubbish like Redondo Beach on Greatest Hits instead of fantastic songs like November, Piccadilly and Sunny.



That's a big stretch. I very much doubt that's why he included that song. If he really thought that then he wouldn't be so in love with so many artists who've hardly seen a chart hit in their entire careers.

[laughing_anne]

It could be argued that you are the one doing Moz the greatest dis-service by blindly buying everything he does, regardless of its quality.

Moz is obsessed with chart positions; ergo when a single does well, he assumes it’s because it’s a great song. That’s why he’s put rubbish like Redondo Beach on Greatest Hits instead of fantastic songs like November, Piccadilly and Sunny.

It may be a good thing that many people round here didn’t buy ‘That’s How People Grow Up. That way Moz knows, he really has got to put out much, much better songs...

I agree with Redondo Beach, I never listen to it. However it does make sense to release a compilation with mostly recent songs as songs such as Piccadilly, November and Sunny etc are already available on different compilations . Had Morrissey released yet another compilation with the expected classics it would have been met with criticism. As far as I'm concerned, this GH is a contractual obligation.

And as for the new material, it rocks! :guitar: I'm so looking forward to his new album. :)

[CharethCutestory]

That's a big stretch. I very much doubt that's why he included that song. If he really thought that then he wouldn't be so in love with so many artists who've hardly seen a chart hit in their entire careers.

I disagree, I think it was a good point. He wasn't talking about Morrissey's thoughts about other artists, he was talking about his thoughts of himself.

We live in a capitalist society, whether people like that or not it's a fact, it's supply and demand and as long as delusional morons say things like "I'll buy anything he releases" means that he will see the demand for sub standard shite and keep on churning it out.

Also people keep saying things like "His comments on immigration are nothing to do with his music". That may be true, but who wants to pay a racist?

[Skinner]

An underperforming single mauled by the critics (possibly worst reception since Roy’s Keen), and ignored by many fans.
Accused, nationally, of being a ‘big-quiffed bigot’ with ‘dodgy views on immigration’.
An aborted tour.
Album sales in decline (Quarry 350,000, ROTT 150,000), Greatest Hits shock departure from top 30 after one week despite huge promotional campaign (TV, Radio, billboards, music press).

Moz now needs, more than ever, to deliver a fantastic album to stop the, err, rot. Not a ‘quite good’ album with one or two really good songs.
A consistently brilliant album stuffed with magical melodies, insightful and contemporary lyrics, and imaginative arrangements. Come on Moz!



http://dallasmorningviews.beloblog.com/archives/debbie_downer.jpg

That's all I have to say about that.

[Ck.]

Is the decline in album sales not across the board for all artists?

[mozzer7]

I enjoy THPGU. However, I wish he had recorded "Something Is Squeezing My Skull" earlier and released that as a single. That would have a garnered a lot more positive feedback. I am still hoping he releases it as the first single for the new album.

[Assassin]

Jaysus,

Do people ever stop whining and demanding more?

[Dow Jones]

Jaysus,

Do people ever stop whining and demanding more?
Whining and demanding more is what makes us human. Obviously.

[mozzer7]

And I agree that he has been in more of a "crunch time" with previous albums. I.e., after Kill Unclie and Maladjusted.

[MadameChaos]

You know nothing of the Crunch! You haven't even been to the Crunch. Oh, a little day trip around the Crunch, we can all be tourists. Ooh look, there's a bit of crunch!

But seriously.

Don't you think you are being a bet negative? A bit demanding? Hmm? Yes?

The album got to number 5, and the single got to number 14. Thats pretty good good considering that THPGU (you've got me doing it now) got precious little airplay (and if the polls are anything to go by only 1/3 of the people on here bought it) and the album was a greatest hits (so most fans will have most of the tracks already).

What more do you want?

[That's Enough For Me]

These comments are truly disgusting.

If you don't like it - GET OFF THE FORUM! This place is meant to be for fans, not vultures who circle & destroy the forum.

A quote on an earlier post says it all - a third of "fans" didn't buy the new single.

No - 100% of fans DID buy the single - the people who didn't aren't "fans".

It's only crunch time for Mozzer because of the very, very poor fanbase he seems to have. He's not letting you down - it's the other way around.

Idiots.


Some questions if this post is not a wind-up:

1. Why would the original poster 'get off the forum' for expressing an opinion and a fairly accurate one judging by other posts on this thread

2. Are you saying that you only qualify as a fan if you give Moz money regardless of what he's offering?

3. Why are the fans letting him down when he is the originator of the product? If the fans (who must have been fans for a reason historically) like the product (as they must have done previously to become fans in the first place) they buy it, non? Your description of a fan comes across as having the blind sheep mentality does it not?

4. Out of interest, do you use the words 'vile' and 'loathesome' a lot in your vocabulary and are you 'sick and ill' a lot?

[CrystalGeezer]

Say my name.

[Vauxhall95]

Exactly my thoughts. Very well put, Madame Butterfly.

Yeah, I understand the concern and have voiced it myself; however that was when he didn’t have a recording contract. He’s in the midst of a contract now, so I wouldn’t get too worked up. Let’s see how the next album fairs first before veering cliffward.

[Assassin]

Whining and demanding more is what makes us human. Obviously.

Perhaps only when it's necessary.

[Vauxhall95]

Jaysus,

Do people ever stop whining and demanding more?

Hey,

All I need his him...

P.S. "Do people ever stop whining and demanding more?"

No (and his bank account appreciates as much)!

[Uncleskinny]

These comments are truly disgusting.

If you don't like it - GET OFF THE FORUM! This place is meant to be for fans, not vultures who circle & destroy the forum.

A quote on an earlier post says it all - a third of "fans" didn't buy the new single.

No - 100% of fans DID buy the single - the people who didn't aren't "fans".

It's only crunch time for Mozzer because of the very, very poor fanbase he seems to have. He's not letting you down - it's the other way around.

Idiots.

If you don't stop deliberately posting inflammatory crap like this, you're banned.

Peter

[Stanley the 2nd]

I get the feeling that anyone who dares to criticises moz on these forums does tend to get shot down in flames these days. And dare I say, the people who are doing the shooting are probably the newer fans who have a couple of albums and think they're the biggest fans in the world because they are mug enough to buy a greatest hits album when the clever thing to do would be to download the 2 new songs off itunes!

Anyhow, that's my little rant over. I've dared to say that ROTT wasn't that great or that Jesse Tobias is a joke only to be called a non fan. Maybe anyone with an opinion or half a brain should keep quiet?!! Love to all, Stanley.

[Vauxhall95]

I get the feeling that anyone who dares to criticises moz on these forums does tend to get shot down in flames these days. And dare I say, the people who are doing the shooting are probably the newer fans who have a couple of albums and think they're the biggest fans in the world because they are mug enough to buy a greatest hits album when the clever thing to do would be to download the 2 new songs off itunes!

Anyhow, that's my little rant over. I've dared to say that ROTT wasn't that great or that Jesse Tobias is a joke only to be called a non fan. Maybe anyone with an opinion or half a brain should keep quiet?!! Love to all, Stanley.

I would strongly encourage you to keep posting what you believe. I would back it up with facts and your rationale and if others cannot deal with that, then it really is their problem.

I truly don’t understand these people. We are all here because we love his music. Stating you like one album over another is just going to happen. Music is subjective. Still, I must admit my own culpability, whenever someone rates “Sweetie Pie” a 9 or 10 in the Top 100 Poll I still get a little apoplectic. :)

[mbb321]

I'm becoming more a critic of Morrissey these days. Once the self confessed addict of the man, there just doesn't seem to be a spark about the world that is Morrissey at the moment (and ever since the end of the YATQ tour for me).

- Alain Whyte has gone from the live performances, which for me is a big loss.
- Mikey has also taken a well earned break and has affected the accompaniment side of his live performances.
- I didn't buy the single to be fair as it is the worst single I have seen him release since I was old enough to start putting money over the counter.

Maybe i'm living in the past (88-95). I just think Morrissey is in limbo where he is halfway trying to attract the mainstream whilst doing the odd thing that keeps him a cult attraction. 'Something is Squeezing My Skull' sounds great live, and hopefully will be recorded for the album and will sound even better, but it's not consistent enough in my opinion.

- The regular occurrence of live B-Sides for the ROTT singles.
- Some horrors of recorded B-Sides (Christian Dior, Sweetie Pie) but there have been more good than bad for ROTT.
- Other new live singles don't have the same excitement factor about them (Paris/Mama) compared to the 02 tour (IBEH/FOTGTD) but lets wait for the recorded version.

Also, I don't see why Moz had to do so many dates for this tour. I hope it hasn't affected the recording of the new album. I'd rather have had him cut his tour at the end of the US/Mexico dates and spend all of this time creating a polished product. I think the tour was too long and did contribute to his recent illness, and hope it doesn't serve detriment to the new album with a lesser working time.

Is Moz still passionate about music, or is he putting notes into a swag bag with 'Pension' branded onto it? He still adores his fan base, thus the tour and the desire to play places other artists wouldn't dare step foot into. I just hope my fears and views are alleviated and rubbished by the artist I adored fanatically.

Let the abuse begin to drive me back down to Events.

The End :)

[nugz]

If you don't stop deliberately posting inflammatory crap like this, you're banned.

Peter

plz uncle skinny!!!

did you see the stuff he said to me?! totally bannable. hrrrm. :rolleyes:

[kenwaan]

Dam am i the only person in the world that likes redondo beach?? I loved the original and i love the cover bring it on.

[Vauxhall95]

- Alain Whyte has gone from the live performances, which for me is a big loss.
- Mikey has also taken a well earned break and has affected the accompaniment side of his live performances.
- I didn't buy the single to be fair as it is the worst single I have seen him release since I was old enough to start putting money over the counter.

- The regular occurrence of live B-Sides for the ROTT singles.
- Some horrors of recorded B-Sides (Christian Dior, Sweetie Pie) but there have been more good than bad for ROTT.
- Other new live singles don't have the same excitement factor about them (Paris/Mama) compared to the 02 tour (IBEH/FOTGTD) but lets wait for the recorded version.



Well, Alain is writing a great deal of material for the new album, so that should encourage you. As for not buying the new single, I can't really blame you. It is a mystery to me why "All You Need Is Me" wasn't used as the first single (or THE single) to promote the Greatest Hits album.

Regarding "the horrors of recent b-sides," I'd classify "Sweetie Pie" in that category but it is not like he hasn't released bad b-sides before, i.e. "Journalists Who Lie." We also did get some gems, "Good Looking Man About Town," "A Song From Under The Floorboards," and "Ganglord" so I'd don't think things are all that bleak.

"Other new live singles don't have the same excitement factor about them (Paris/Mama) compared to the 02 tour (IBEH/FOTGTD) but lets wait for the recorded version."
Well, let's put it in the proper context. In 2002, we were praying for a new recording contract and any song gave us hope, hell "Mexico" seemed like a revelation. So, no there isn't the same buzz, but I think it is to be expected.

Now that I've defended Mozzer, I too have some trepidations. "That's How People grow Up" and "One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell" are not album material, nor single material. Moreover, they lack the lyrical punch that so many of his other works contained. I hope all involved in the next album show better judgment when picking singles and releasing b-sides. Autumn is an eternity, so I feel like there is time for Boz and Jesse to step up and knock out some good tunes to compete with a wealth of material from Alain. In the past, the problem seems to be they record some of the b-side gems AFTER they've wrapped recording of the new album. This was true of the "Maladjusted" b-sides and a song like "Don't Make Fun of Daddy's Voice."

Keep the faith!:)

[MadameChaos]

I'm becoming more a critic of Morrissey these days. Once the self confessed addict of the man, there just doesn't seem to be a spark about the world that is Morrissey at the moment (and ever since the end of the YATQ tour for me).

- Alain Whyte has gone from the live performances, which for me is a big loss.
- Mikey has also taken a well earned break and has affected the accompaniment side of his live performances.
- I didn't buy the single to be fair as it is the worst single I have seen him release since I was old enough to start putting money over the counter.

Maybe i'm living in the past (88-95). I just think Morrissey is in limbo where he is halfway trying to attract the mainstream whilst doing the odd thing that keeps him a cult attraction. 'Something is Squeezing My Skull' sounds great live, and hopefully will be recorded for the album and will sound even better, but it's not consistent enough in my opinion.

- The regular occurrence of live B-Sides for the ROTT singles.
- Some horrors of recorded B-Sides (Christian Dior, Sweetie Pie) but there have been more good than bad for ROTT.
- Other new live singles don't have the same excitement factor about them (Paris/Mama) compared to the 02 tour (IBEH/FOTGTD) but lets wait for the recorded version.

Also, I don't see why Moz had to do so many dates for this tour. I hope it hasn't affected the recording of the new album. I'd rather have had him cut his tour at the end of the US/Mexico dates and spend all of this time creating a polished product. I think the tour was too long and did contribute to his recent illness, and hope it doesn't serve detriment to the new album with a lesser working time.

Is Moz still passionate about music, or is he putting notes into a swag bag with 'Pension' branded onto it? He still adores his fan base, thus the tour and the desire to play places other artists wouldn't dare step foot into. I just hope my fears and views are alleviated and rubbished by the artist I adored fanatically.

Let the abuse begin to drive me back down to Events.

The End :)

I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

[vivabob]

If you don't stop deliberately posting inflammatory crap like this, you're banned.

Peter

well said

[mbb321]

Regarding "the horrors of recent b-sides," I'd classify "Sweetie Pie" in that category but it is not like he hasn't released bad b-sides before, i.e. "Journalists Who Lie."

Journalists Who Lie is a fabulous tune haha! But seriously, i would put that on anyday over 'Sweetie Pie'. The quirky start to Journalists ensures it gets the odd play now and again and helped retain the intruigue up until this present day. :D

[mbb321]

I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

Fantastic, i knew a 'Your Mam' joke would be thrown in somewhere. Any more? :tears:

[the judge]

Your post was okay for me mbb :)

[MadameChaos]

Fantastic, i knew a 'Your Mam' joke would be thrown in somewhere. Any more? :tears:

Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.

[Stanley the 2nd]

mbb321 - your original posting perfectly sums up my own personal feelings. I've been a fan since the early nineties and the current situation is a weird one. The man has a record contract, a loyal fanbase and an album on the horizon yet I'm not overly excited. The 2002 shows were amazing and the build up to You are the Quarry was a good time for us old moz fans as we knew he still had something to offer plus had the songs to deliver. Our loyalty was rewarded. It just seems at the moment that he hasn't got the songs or the band to deliver the goods again. Maybe I'm being negative. The recent single was awful and friends who are fans even admitted this! The Paris song is good though and all you need is me has potential. Mickey leaving the band is a loss and I just hope that Alain Whyte has a big hand in the new album. Unlike many on this forum I liked Jerry Finn as a producer so that bodes well. I guess wel'll have to wait and see on this one...

[Assassin]

I get the feeling that anyone who dares to criticises moz on these forums does tend to get shot down in flames these days. And dare I say, the people who are doing the shooting are probably the newer fans who have a couple of albums and think they're the biggest fans in the world because they are mug enough to buy a greatest hits album when the clever thing to do would be to download the 2 new songs off itunes!

Anyhow, that's my little rant over. I've dared to say that ROTT wasn't that great or that Jesse Tobias is a joke only to be called a non fan. Maybe anyone with an opinion or half a brain should keep quiet?!! Love to all, Stanley.

Oh I think criticism is fair and I would say ROTT is merely a decent album. Not many classic tunes just a nice collection.

However most of this forum is swamped with these kind of discussions and I think it's getting abit dull and boring.

[bobalmighty]

As a big Patti Smith fan, I can't hate Redondo Beach, though Patti's is much much better. I guess I'm someone who will always buy the CD's and stuff, I'm a collector and a fan. I don't agree with an earlier post about how fans are doing Moz wrong by buying certain singles. That's not a fair comment, some people actually DO like THPGU and ROTT you know...

[2-J]

Quarry was always going to sell more because it was his 'comeback LP' don't forget that. He was fucking everywhere that year and everyone felt like celebrating a national institution.

Then of course FOTGTD was also a massive hit, that shifted at least an extra 50, maybe 100 thousand copies of Quarry via airplay alone.

When Ringleader rolled around he hadn't been away that long, the singles weren't as strong (or immediately radio appealing, I mean),

As long as he has a couple of fairly strong singles and tours and promotes the forthcoming LP reasonably, it should do as well as Quarry.

Away from albums, touring wise he hasn't really suffered a downturn in fortunes.

The Greatest Hits was a missed opportunity - shite tracklisting and deservedly panned as such by most of the media, weak single (especially compared to All You Need Is Me) pretty lackluster promo.

But in conclusion, no he is not suffering a downturn in fortunes or form. It's all perfectly explicable, and his new LP can hope to do as well as Ringleader at least.

[Morrissey the 23rd]

An underperforming single mauled by the critics (possibly worst reception since Roy’s Keen), and ignored by many fans.
Accused, nationally, of being a ‘big-quiffed bigot’ with ‘dodgy views on immigration’.
An aborted tour.
Album sales in decline (Quarry 350,000, ROTT 150,000), Greatest Hits shock departure from top 30 after one week despite huge promotional campaign (TV, Radio, billboards, music press).

Moz now needs, more than ever, to deliver a fantastic album to stop the, err, rot. Not a ‘quite good’ album with one or two really good songs.
A consistently brilliant album stuffed with magical melodies, insightful and contemporary lyrics, and imaginative arrangements. Come on Moz!


All you need is Moz.

[madmoza]

I think a lot of you guy's have missed the point. THPGU has been on the web and on these forums since June 2007 so it was not a NEW song. You will probably find that it was Decca who wanted to get a greatest hits compilation out there.....remember back in the rough trade days of The Smiths, it was a way of padding out the contract. It is a shame that the tracks on the album were not the strongest of selections....my personal belief is it should have been a double album with at least thirty tracks on it. With regards to the next studio album we may get an album of songs we have never heard. I know we had a couple of crackers in Noise Is The Best Revenge and I Just Playing Easy To Get and they never appeared as a studio recording on an album or single release so we may get a surprise. ROTT and YATQ were both excellent albums and I think that all we ARE EXPECTING FAR TOO MUCH by thinking that he will record an album where every single song is an exceptional piece of musical excellence!! Give the guy a break and enjoy him while we all can please.

[Vauxhall95]

I think a lot of you guy's have missed the point. THPGU has been on the web and on these forums since June 2007 so it was not a NEW song. You will probably find that it was Decca who wanted to get a greatest hits compilation out there.....remember back in the rough trade days of The Smiths, it was a way of padding out the contract. It is a shame that the tracks on the album were not the strongest of selections....my personal belief is it should have been a double album with at least thirty tracks on it. With regards to the next studio album we may get an album of songs we have never heard. I know we had a couple of crackers in Noise Is The Best Revenge and I Just Playing Easy To Get and they never appeared as a studio recording on an album or single release so we may get a surprise. ROTT and YATQ were both excellent albums and I think that all we ARE EXPECTING FAR TOO MUCH by thinking that he will record an album where every single song is an exceptional piece of musical excellence!! Give the guy a break and enjoy him while we all can please.

I don't think most people on this forum expect an album, "...where every single song is an exceptional piece of musical excellence." However, for an album to be considered a success, the fewer low points the better.

I think the marketing of "Greatest Hits" was disappointing. If Decca had been able to place "Kit" or "I'm Playing Easy To Get" as the b-side then clearly fans would have been more interested. Rather we get live performances - it doesn't create an urgency to run to the store. Also, who decided "That's How People Grow Up" is a stronger single than "All You Need Is Me" needs to be fired. "That's How People Grow Up" is fine, but not a strong single.

On the upside, the covers and artwork are the best of Morrissey's solo career. YATQ and ROTT looked great. So, there's always that!:)

[Scarlet Ibis]

rot. Not a ‘quite good’ album with one or two really good songs.
A consistently brilliant album stuffed with magical melodies, insightful and contemporary lyrics, and imaginative arrangements. Come on Moz!

ROTT is one of my all time favorite albums. I think people who dislike it are very misguided.

[Danny_]

Crunch time in what way? That he'll be consigned to oblivion if he doesn't come up with a million selling album?

This is an artist with 25 years standing of success in the music industry. Why the melodrama and doom mongering? Some of the rhetoric employed on this site at times would put Morrissey's lyrics to shame. :rolleyes:

[Worm]

Crunch time in what way? That he'll be consigned to oblivion if he doesn't come up with a million selling album?

This is an artist with 25 years standing of success in the music industry. Why the melodrama and doom mongering? Some of the rhetoric employed on this site at times would put Morrissey's lyrics to shame. :rolleyes:

Agree. What exactly are the stakes here, anyway? He's going to be sacked for ineffeciency? Given a public scolding by Elton John? Pelted with cows? Traded to the Clippers*?



*Never mind about this one. Just never, never mind.

[That's Enough For Me]

ROTT is one of my all time favorite albums. I think people who dislike it are very misguided.


I'm not sure they're misguided, most seem to deem it as unspectacular.

For me, it just comes back to the music rather than the lyrics or melodies. While Moz is running out of things to say, he can still find a melody, it's the music (or lack thereof) that lets the songs down IMO.

Ultimately, it's all just opinions. I didn't mind Dior and liked Sweetie Pie but I Knew I Was Next and Noise Is The Best Revenge are for me, his two worst songs of all time.

[imogen11]

You know nothing of the Crunch! You haven't even been to the Crunch. Oh, a little day trip around the Crunch, we can all be tourists. Ooh look, there's a bit of crunch!


:D :guitar:

[imogen11]

I'm becoming more a critic of Morrissey these days. Once the self confessed addict of the man, there just doesn't seem to be a spark about the world that is Morrissey at the moment (and ever since the end of the YATQ tour for me).

- Alain Whyte has gone from the live performances, which for me is a big loss.
- Mikey has also taken a well earned break and has affected the accompaniment side of his live performances.
- I didn't buy the single to be fair as it is the worst single I have seen him release since I was old enough to start putting money over the counter.

Maybe i'm living in the past (88-95). I just think Morrissey is in limbo where he is halfway trying to attract the mainstream whilst doing the odd thing that keeps him a cult attraction. 'Something is Squeezing My Skull' sounds great live, and hopefully will be recorded for the album and will sound even better, but it's not consistent enough in my opinion.

- The regular occurrence of live B-Sides for the ROTT singles.
- Some horrors of recorded B-Sides (Christian Dior, Sweetie Pie) but there have been more good than bad for ROTT.
- Other new live singles don't have the same excitement factor about them (Paris/Mama) compared to the 02 tour (IBEH/FOTGTD) but lets wait for the recorded version.

Also, I don't see why Moz had to do so many dates for this tour. I hope it hasn't affected the recording of the new album. I'd rather have had him cut his tour at the end of the US/Mexico dates and spend all of this time creating a polished product. I think the tour was too long and did contribute to his recent illness, and hope it doesn't serve detriment to the new album with a lesser working time.

Is Moz still passionate about music, or is he putting notes into a swag bag with 'Pension' branded onto it? He still adores his fan base, thus the tour and the desire to play places other artists wouldn't dare step foot into. I just hope my fears and views are alleviated and rubbished by the artist I adored fanatically.

Let the abuse begin to drive me back down to Events.

The End :)

mbb321 - your original posting perfectly sums up my own personal feelings. I've been a fan since the early nineties and the current situation is a weird one. The man has a record contract, a loyal fanbase and an album on the horizon yet I'm not overly excited. The 2002 shows were amazing and the build up to You are the Quarry was a good time for us old moz fans as we knew he still had something to offer plus had the songs to deliver. Our loyalty was rewarded. It just seems at the moment that he hasn't got the songs or the band to deliver the goods again. Maybe I'm being negative. The recent single was awful and friends who are fans even admitted this! The Paris song is good though and all you need is me has potential. Mickey leaving the band is a loss and I just hope that Alain Whyte has a big hand in the new album. Unlike many on this forum I liked Jerry Finn as a producer so that bodes well. I guess wel'll have to wait and see on this one...

Wow, I have a quick browse of the boards after a couple of weeks away and people have started talking sense. I, for one, will not be having your drawn and quartered, so fear not. ;)

[Moonbeam]

These comments are truly disgusting.

If you don't like it - GET OFF THE FORUM! This place is meant to be for fans, not vultures who circle & destroy the forum.

A quote on an earlier post says it all - a third of "fans" didn't buy the new single.

No - 100% of fans DID buy the single - the people who didn't aren't "fans".

It's only crunch time for Mozzer because of the very, very poor fanbase he seems to have. He's not letting you down - it's the other way around.

Idiots.

You are very spooky! Good choice of name.....

[Grim O'Grady]

Dam am i the only person in the world that likes redondo beach?? I loved the original and i love the cover bring it on.

nah you are not alone! I've got it set on my phone as my alarm call, so every morning I wake up to Mozzers version of Redondo Beach & I'm in a good mood!

love

Grim

[Maurice E]

Crunch time in what way? That he'll be consigned to oblivion if he doesn't come up with a million selling album?

This is an artist with 25 years standing of success in the music industry. Why the melodrama and doom mongering? Some of the rhetoric employed on this site at times would put Morrissey's lyrics to shame. :rolleyes:

The (admittedly ambitious!) purpose of this thread is not to wallow in the gloom and doom, but to spur Moz into action, to produce a truly brilliant album! Ok so he’s already written the album and he (probably) doesn’t visit this website so perhaps a slightly futile aim!
But I do think it kind of is crunch time. You look at his downward sales trajectory; 350,000 (Quarry) then 150,000 (ROTT) and the disappointing Greatest Hits figures…
When an artists sell less than around 75,000-100,000, they are unlikely to get a conventional record deal i.e. with proper singles and non-internet-only releases. This is the only kind of deal Moz wants to be involved with. He won’t sign to a tiny indie label with no marketing clout.
So, if sales continue their downward trajectory, Moz may be left label-less after the next album.
Which is why it needs to be an absolute corker with a couple of dazzlingly good singles. That’s all I’m saying!

[2-J]

They won't continue that trajectory. Quarry was exceptional as the 'comeback record' and had FOTGTD. Greatest Hits was a total botched job considering what might have been. There's no reason to think the new LP will shift any less than Ringleader.

[Jones]

This is the only kind of deal Moz wants to be involved with. He won’t sign to a tiny indie label with no marketing clout.
So, if sales continue their downward trajectory, Moz may be left label-less after the next album.
Which is why it needs to be an absolute corker with a couple of dazzlingly good singles. That’s all I’m saying!

Interesting how you seem to have access to the workings of Morrissey's mind. This is the artist who signed to Sanctuary, an indie, in preference to the offers he'd had from majors?

[Maurice E]

Interesting how you seem to have access to the workings of Morrissey's mind. This is the artist who signed to Sanctuary, an indie, in preference to the offers he'd had from majors?

Nope, no access to Morrissey's mind; just his interviews!
He could easily have released albums in the wilderness years. He could have signed to a tiny label and released stuff on the internet like, err, David Essex! But he said that he didn't want to do this. I guess he would've found it a bit humiliating.
He's recently said he doesn't want to go the DIY Radiohead download route either. He wants to feel there are people out there working to get his stuff heard through the conventional channels.
I guess the indie/major label thing isn't a big deal these days. As long as a label can put out singles and albums, afford a bit of marketing and promotion etc, Moz is probably happy with that.

[paintavulgarpicture]

Poor old Morrissey. He's always getting it in the neck.

[Scarlet Ibis]

Oh, pish.

[AHappyRocket]

It's crunch time all right - one more turkey and he's history...

He's teetering on the brink of becoming totally irrelevant, and there's just not enough sympathy out there in critic-land to allow him to keep getting away with releasing half-hearted drivel.

While I'm at it - if he must do mainstream UK telly (Ross/Holland etc) he's gonna have to brush it up a bit. I lost count of the people who said to me things like "I watched Morrissey because you keep banging on about him and he's shite" and it's hard to argue.

All the more frustrating when you've been to see him a few nights before and loved every minute of it!

Come on Man - have you still got it, or what?

[Paulc]

It's crunch time all right - one more turkey and he's history...

He's teetering on the brink of becoming totally irrelevant, and there's just not enough sympathy out there in critic-land to allow him to keep getting away with releasing half-hearted drivel.

While I'm at it - if he must do mainstream UK telly (Ross/Holland etc) he's gonna have to brush it up a bit. I lost count of the people who said to me things like "I watched Morrissey because you keep banging on about him and he's shite" and it's hard to argue.

All the more frustrating when you've been to see him a few nights before and loved every minute of it!

Come on Man - have you still got it, or what?

Good questions all - but he proved to you that he does still have it or you simply wouldnt have loved every minute of seeing him live.

Maybe this is a crunch time for him but it wont be his first!

Sure it would be great to have a critically acclaimed album released (and i am sure it will be) but lets say only fans buy it. Well we are (despite all protestations otherwise) a fairly loyal bunch and i know if there are new songs to be had we will buy it. It will sell at least as well as Ringleader and on the back of what was a very successful tour last year i think it will do well.

Also look on these boards - the age of many fans is quite surprising and i saw lots of younger guys at the recent Roundhouse gigs - he is appealing to new people all the time. Could it be the fanbase is actually growing?

I think all the signs are positive - the new stuff we have heard has been great - and i personally really like Thats how people grow up - i find it to be a grower - the more u listen the more u like!

So maybe the future of his record label contract will depend on this albums success but ultimately it will come down to the quality of the music and i think there he will be just fine.

[spinelessswine]

This topic is just making me think of the lyrics to All You Need Is Me...

Of course we shouldn't buy Moz's material blindly and regardless of its quality but neither should we be readying his musical grave and fearing the worst.
I don't think it's crunch time for him at all. Sure YATQ sold very well and ROTT didn't do so well, as someone else pointed out that's to be expected with a 'comeback' album, the one after is unlikely to sell as well no matter how good it is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of his pre YATQ albums have been massive-selling stadium-buggering titans have they?

Another good point was made regarding Greatest Hits - people are moaning that it's primarily his most recent singles. But firstly if those are his biggest hits then what do you expect from a record entitled Greatest Hits? Yet if it contained all of the songs that people are whining about not being on there, they'd only piss on that it was yet another compilation containing the same old tracks yet again and that "blah blah blah I shan't be buying it, everybody look at how indignant I am, quick!" If he had to do a compilation album (maybe it was contractual obligation) then at least he's done about the best he can to put together a compilation very dissimilar to any of his previous.

Even if the new album sells less than ROTT, I personally don't care. I'm not a Morrissey fan because I want him to be the biggest artist in the world. I'm a fan because of what his music and words have done for my life. I'm sure he would love to sell a lot of records, who wouldnt? But I doubt he'll lose too much sleep if he doesn't. After all, does anyone here honestly hand on heart think that any music he's released in the last 5 years had 'guaranteed hit that'll speak to the kids' written all over it? It's easy to forget that Irish Blood sounded nothing like anyone else when it came out.

Just my 2 bobs worth...

[moravcik24]

Im throwing my arms around Paris, Mama lay softly... , All you need is me.

If this is a sample of the quality of the album no-one (with any taste) should worry.

[spinelessswine]

Im throwing my arms around Paris, Mama lay softly... , All you need is me.

If this is a sample of the quality of the album no-one (with any taste) should worry.


Exactly. I was blown away with all the new material at The Roundhouse gigs.

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Just a point on the Greatest Hits: It entered at 5 & then dropped out of the top thirty.
Vauxhall & I did that too.

[Maurice E]

Just a point on the Greatest Hits: It entered at 5 & then dropped out of the top thirty.
Vauxhall & I did that too.

Nope, Vauxhall went in at 1, spent two or three weeks in the top 10, and about five or six in the top 40.

In response to previous posts, yeah, the new songs do indeed sound great. According to a recent poll here, levels of optimism (including mine) are high for the new album. It's just that this time, we really need a brilliant album with lots of songs scoring over 8/10 unlike Ringleader where virtually every song plus b-side was just 6 or 7/10...

[Forza Mozza]

Well, music is quite subjective right? There maybe a chance that you think the next album, when released, is a 10/10, but others hate it, burn all their cds, posters, gig stubs of Moz, and the Cd sells really badly, will that make it a worse record for you Maurice E? Will you re-review it and score it down to a more solid 7/10?

Because of who it is, there will be a chance that people will buy it, because it is Morrissey. In that case, illegally download it, give it a listen, if you hate it, you will only lose a bit of time. If you really like it, buy it.

As for crunch time, Morrissey's stock at the moment is quite high when you compare it to the rest of his solo career.

[Maurice E]

Well, music is quite subjective right? There maybe a chance that you think the next album, when released, is a 10/10, but others hate it, burn all their cds, posters, gig stubs of Moz, and the Cd sells really badly, will that make it a worse record for you Maurice E? Will you re-review it and score it down to a more solid 7/10?

Because of who it is, there will be a chance that people will buy it, because it is Morrissey. In that case, illegally download it, give it a listen, if you hate it, you will only lose a bit of time. If you really like it, buy it.

As for crunch time, Morrissey's stock at the moment is quite high when you compare it to the rest of his solo career.

Hi Forza,
You're quite right. Music is highly subjective. When I talk about 6's, 7's, 8's etc I'm referring to the average scores that we all gave (as in the Houdini poll) - not my own opinion.
Take a look at the poll and you'll find only two songs got over 8/10 from the 2006 releases. Whereas in 2004 (and other good Morrissey years, 88, 92, 94 etc), there were loads.

Morrissey's stock is relatively high at the mo but he's having a bit of a 'wobble' with the immigration thing, the critical panning he received for ‘That’s how people grow up’, the so-so reviews of Greatest Hits plus the rapid exit from the top 30, etc.

The brand new songs sound pretty impressive though-and they need to be. I’m optimistic...

[vivabob]

has anyone actually listened to the lyrics of all you need is me ... Lad makes a point