Are Vegans just being elitist & pious?

[SpookyMulder]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

[Please]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

well obviously it has had an affect on you. How is it over the top? People are free to eat what they want.

[EPbabe]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

[Jo Jo70]

No. Absolutely don't agree. I admire anyone who can be vegan. They're not elitist, but simply care passionately about animal welfare.

The dairy industry is inherently cruel. Males calves are either shot at a day old or sent to veal crates. Their mothers suffer endless pregnancies and infected teats to produce unnatural quantities of milk, which is meant for baby cows, not us!

Rant over, but why do you feel so threatened by vegans? Which is a ludricrous idea in itself, gentle souls that they are. :D

[Jo Jo70]

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

Sensitivity is much appreciated! :)

[Hellie]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?


Its a difficult one really.I'm veggie not vegan.But you see as long as there is milk production there will be calves and they will be slaughtered.

I'd love to be vegan but I cannot be without dairy as i don't like soya milk and soya products much.

[EPbabe]

Sensitivity is much appreciated! :)

I'm just trying to be reasonable. :)

[Jo Jo70]

I'm just trying to be reasonable. :)

A rare quality on here! :D

[cornelius blaze]

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :).

great post here madam:)
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/morrisseysolo/gifs/wellsclaprc8.gif

PS. don't apologize.





Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

Sunday @ 3, is that alright with you?

[imogen11]

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I'm just trying to be reasonable. :)

That's the most reasonable post I've seen in a Veggie thread on these boards yet. Hallelujah! :)

A rare quality on here! :D

Amen! :D

[Dave]

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I understand what you're saying in a way. I had friends that didn't own a television and they always talked about how they didn't watch television. Now I don't watch television either, and haven't for a couple of years at home, but when people try to talk about television I hesitate to say that I don't watch it because I remember how my friends were elitist about it.

On the other hand, saying "meat is good and I like it" is different. If you want to eat it, that is your right, legally, and you can do so, but you can't be upset if people look down on it. there are always people that judge other people.

So it's boring for people to act like they are better, but people that see things differently than you do may be judgmental and in this case you can't really expect everyone to just accept it. Where I live the majority of the people eat meat and it's the people that don't that are the ones that are asked to explain their diet at meals with friends and family.

[I am a Ghost]

Meat-free - the new vegetarian
The Grocer thinks vegetarian is a dirty word. Anna Pickard explains why and comes up with a few of her own
February 6, 2008 10:00 AM

A meat-free roast ready for the oven. Photograph: Graham Turner

According to The Grocer, it seems that 'vegetarian' is a dirty word to many British consumers. I can think of many more dirty words, some of them even concerning vegetables, but that's not the point right now. The point right now is that supermarkets have found that while people seem to avoid the term 'vegetarian' when attached to a label, they're more excited by the positive language encapsulated in the term 'meat-free'.

With a 5.5% increase in the meatless market, supermarkets are now looking to maximise the potential of people who may not want to label themselves as 'vegetarian', but perhaps don't choose to include meat in every single meal - whether for health, expense, or ethical reasons. But why?

But why is 'vegetarian' a difficult word for people to ally themselves to? Is it the memory of unappetising vegetarian options glimpsed over tables? The grim one-person teas you made for yourself during years of over-zealous Morrissey-led teenage temporary vegetarianism while the rest of the family were tucking into shepherd's pie? (I'm speaking for myself here, four years of meatlessness for little other reason than The Smiths told me it was the thing to do).

Or is it because people associate the term with a strictness of being that they find unattractive, together with political or personality statements that they feel publicly branding oneself as a vegetarian might carry? Like teetotalers or Gordon Brown.

Funnily enough, I was just watching Come Dine With Me (so shoot me, it's a sinful pleasure, watching other people's dinner parties go wrong) and a Texan guest was heard to declare "Ah, vegetarian - an old Indian word for bad hunter" - which is the kind of mindset that it would seem many people have - surely you'd only want to eat vegetarian having failed at eating proper food.

On the contrary, of course, people are choosing to eat non-meat-based meals for an increasing number of reasons, with health and fitness, an increasing awareness of five-a-days and distasteful farming practices being only some.

So while they might never want to term their choice a vegetarian one, there's not many people who might feel ashamed of ordering something with a little circled 'v' next to it on the menu. Now that restaurants have stepped up to the plate, with restaurants like Terre A Terre in Brighton, Manna in London and Greens in Manchester providing vegetarian gourmet menus which prove that, unlike in the 70s, asking for the vegetarian - sorry, meat-free - option does not mean getting a lump of cheese and half an iceberg lettuce plonked on a plate (sometimes with a handful of prawns because no one was quite sure whether they counted or not).

So the problem has traditionally been that perhaps people see it as a negative choice rather than a positive one - that you're shutting doors and saying 'You MUST not eat this thing', whereas 'meat-free' has the fluffy noughties feeling of 'hey! free yourselves of the need to eat meat for every meal!' as if all omnivores were doing that in the first place.

So because we're all desperate to feel that we're free to do as we want, any old time, we perhaps feel better about eating vegetables if we can pretend we're ridding ourselves of something bad while we're at it - like it makes any difference what the pasta and pesto bake was called.

It can't be a bad thing - whether people are doing it on a full-time or meal-by-meal basis - if people are being more aware of what they're putting in their mouths. But that doesn't stop it from sounding a little silly that yes, on a basic level the supermarkets now wish to concentrate on the 'meat-reducers', as this new breed of consumer is called, as they open up the vegetarian market away from the ... well, we can't call them vegetarians anymore, I suppose. So, meat-excluders? So they're opening up the meat-free selection for meat-reducers as well as meat-excluders, and allowing the meat-maximisers to do as they wish, as, in fact, they were always going to.

This sounds like a whole new game - making up new definitions for silly marketing terms:

Meat-reducer: The machine that turns a perfectly good bird into a turkey twizzler.

Meat-excluder: Wadding that you can put under the door to stop meat from seeping in on cold winter nights.

Meat-maximiser: Something that you can get from the classified ads in the back pages of low-brow Sunday newspaper magazines.

A new word for 'vegetarians who eat fish' (pro-piscine-meat-excluders?) will be added as soon as we think of it.

[Dave]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

no. I think anything else is a personal choice.

[Dave]

Meat-free - the new vegetarian
The Grocer thinks vegetarian is a dirty word. Anna Pickard explains why and comes up with a few of her own
February 6, 2008 10:00 AM

A meat-free roast ready for the oven. Photograph: Graham Turner

According to The Grocer, it seems that 'vegetarian' is a dirty word to many British consumers. I can think of many more dirty words, some of them even concerning vegetables, but that's not the point right now. The point right now is that supermarkets have found that while people seem to avoid the term 'vegetarian' when attached to a label, they're more excited by the positive language encapsulated in the term 'meat-free'.

With a 5.5% increase in the meatless market, supermarkets are now looking to maximise the potential of people who may not want to label themselves as 'vegetarian', but perhaps don't choose to include meat in every single meal - whether for health, expense, or ethical reasons. But why?

But why is 'vegetarian' a difficult word for people to ally themselves to? Is it the memory of unappetising vegetarian options glimpsed over tables? The grim one-person teas you made for yourself during years of over-zealous Morrissey-led teenage temporary vegetarianism while the rest of the family were tucking into shepherd's pie? (I'm speaking for myself here, four years of meatlessness for little other reason than The Smiths told me it was the thing to do).

Or is it because people associate the term with a strictness of being that they find unattractive, together with political or personality statements that they feel publicly branding oneself as a vegetarian might carry? Like teetotalers or Gordon Brown.

Funnily enough, I was just watching Come Dine With Me (so shoot me, it's a sinful pleasure, watching other people's dinner parties go wrong) and a Texan guest was heard to declare "Ah, vegetarian - an old Indian word for bad hunter" - which is the kind of mindset that it would seem many people have - surely you'd only want to eat vegetarian having failed at eating proper food.

On the contrary, of course, people are choosing to eat non-meat-based meals for an increasing number of reasons, with health and fitness, an increasing awareness of five-a-days and distasteful farming practices being only some.

So while they might never want to term their choice a vegetarian one, there's not many people who might feel ashamed of ordering something with a little circled 'v' next to it on the menu. Now that restaurants have stepped up to the plate, with restaurants like Terre A Terre in Brighton, Manna in London and Greens in Manchester providing vegetarian gourmet menus which prove that, unlike in the 70s, asking for the vegetarian - sorry, meat-free - option does not mean getting a lump of cheese and half an iceberg lettuce plonked on a plate (sometimes with a handful of prawns because no one was quite sure whether they counted or not).

So the problem has traditionally been that perhaps people see it as a negative choice rather than a positive one - that you're shutting doors and saying 'You MUST not eat this thing', whereas 'meat-free' has the fluffy noughties feeling of 'hey! free yourselves of the need to eat meat for every meal!' as if all omnivores were doing that in the first place.

So because we're all desperate to feel that we're free to do as we want, any old time, we perhaps feel better about eating vegetables if we can pretend we're ridding ourselves of something bad while we're at it - like it makes any difference what the pasta and pesto bake was called.

It can't be a bad thing - whether people are doing it on a full-time or meal-by-meal basis - if people are being more aware of what they're putting in their mouths. But that doesn't stop it from sounding a little silly that yes, on a basic level the supermarkets now wish to concentrate on the 'meat-reducers', as this new breed of consumer is called, as they open up the vegetarian market away from the ... well, we can't call them vegetarians anymore, I suppose. So, meat-excluders? So they're opening up the meat-free selection for meat-reducers as well as meat-excluders, and allowing the meat-maximisers to do as they wish, as, in fact, they were always going to.

This sounds like a whole new game - making up new definitions for silly marketing terms:

Meat-reducer: The machine that turns a perfectly good bird into a turkey twizzler.

Meat-excluder: Wadding that you can put under the door to stop meat from seeping in on cold winter nights.

Meat-maximiser: Something that you can get from the classified ads in the back pages of low-brow Sunday newspaper magazines.

A new word for 'vegetarians who eat fish' (pro-piscine-meat-excluders?) will be added as soon as we think of it.

great. it's true of anything that you "give up". if you see it as depriving yourself of it, it's difficult. The article does a good job summing up the image people have of vegetarians as not being very much fun.

[Jo Jo70]

Which is of course, completely untrue! :D

'Fun? I would never do anything as vulgar as having fun!'

[EPbabe]

A rare quality on here! :D

great post here madam:)
PS. don't apologize.

Sunday @ 3, is that alright with you?

That's the most reasonable post I've seen in a Veggie thread on these boards yet. Hallelujah! :)

Amen! :D

Thanks guys. :) It's not that I try to please anyone with my post, it's just the way I feel and think about it. Extremism is not good for anyone.

I apologized because I really didn't want to offend anyone. And yes, Sunday at 3 is perfect. :D

On the other hand, saying "meat is good and I like it" is different. If you want to eat it, that is your right, legally, and you can do so, but you can't be upset if people look down on it. there are always people that judge other people.

Sure, but it works the other way around too. You can't be upset if people look down on you cause you're veggie. Well, actually you can, being judgemental on others is not nice, but people still do it. I can't speak for others, I'm just saying that in no way do I look down on anyone for being a veggie. But extremism scares me and sometimes even makes me sick. And it scares me how extreme people can be towards others for the sake of animal protection.

So it's boring for people to act like they are better, but people that see things differently than you do may be judgmental and in this case you can't really expect everyone to just accept it. Where I live the majority of the people eat meat and it's the people that don't that are the ones that are asked to explain their diet at meals with friends and family.

Again I say that I can't speak for others. I accept your choice, that's the most I can do.

[Sister_Steve]

but why do you feel so threatened by vegans? :D

People are threatened by vegans because it makes them feel bad about themselves. They know deep down that we are right but they are too greedy/selfish/lazy to do it themselves so feel the need to constantly ridicule. If we are self righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit. I'm sick of it, I don't have a go at meat eaters (much) and try to keep out of debates about animal rights because I get ganged up on, as if I have done something wrong, when I'm just trying to do something good. :mad:

[bogdana]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

I can agree that 90% of the vegans I have personally met in my life have been elitist snobs. but the other 10% are pretty even keel and don't get embarrassing at a restaurant. I see what you mean though. Too many vegans don't give vegetarians the credit they deserve for not eating flesh... ironic for those on this forum, since, from what I've gathered, Morrissey is not vegan.

and PS vegans dont make me feel bad about myself at all. In fact, I feel pretty good about myself NOT being vegan.

[Busy Clippers]

I think vegans might be a little defensive because most of us have been cross examined in social situations by people intent upon discovering whether we're extremists. People seem to perceive our diet as a political position, and an oddly threatening one. It's pretty surreal at times. People assume so much based upon your dietary choice, and you're placed in the position of having to defend your decisions. I have a hard time understanding why anybody cares what I eat or don't eat. But then in real life (unlike the internet) I'm scrupulously polite and quite well brought up.:rolleyes: Mother always said that if a person offers you something to eat and you don't want it, just smile and say, "No thank you" and leave it at that.

Funnily enough, whenever someone's demanding answers about my diet the whole conversation changes if I mention that I'm a Buddhist. Nobody's threatened by Buddhists, except maybe my mother who still thinks I'm going to Hell. :eek:

[Annie]

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I wish I could express myself like you did, EP. My thoughts exactly. Thank you for this great post! :)
(Just wanted to say that.)

[EPbabe]

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I wish I could express myself like you did, EP. My thoughts exactly. Thank you for this great post! :)
(Just wanted to say that.)

Thanks. :) I wanted to make this post because I got so bitterly disappointed in a vegetarian person I liked (as a friend). And I found it very important to mention that for me it was all about mutual respect. :)

[SpookyMulder]

People are threatened by vegans because it makes them feel bad about themselves. They know deep down that we are right but they are too greedy/selfish/lazy to do it themselves so feel the need to constantly ridicule. If we are self righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit. I'm sick of it, I don't have a go at meat eaters (much) and try to keep out of debates about animal rights because I get ganged up on, as if I have done something wrong, when I'm just trying to do something good. :mad:

This is the kind of attitude i'm talking about - "If we are self-righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit".

OH MY GOD - CAN YOU HEAR YOURSELF?!

Vegans take it too far - like i said, Organic Milk & Free-Range Eggs are enough. Anything beyond that is extremist behaviour.

End of.

[SpookyMulder]

I can agree that 90% of the vegans I have personally met in my life have been elitist snobs. but the other 10% are pretty even keel and don't get embarrassing at a restaurant. I see what you mean though. Too many vegans don't give vegetarians the credit they deserve for not eating flesh... ironic for those on this forum, since, from what I've gathered, Morrissey is not vegan.

and PS vegans dont make me feel bad about myself at all. In fact, I feel pretty good about myself NOT being vegan.

Too true - it's like we're scum for being Veggie's - almost as though we're worse in their eye's than meat-eaters!

"Oh, you're a Vegeterian? Well, i'm a VEGAN! I'M SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU. I'M SO MUCH MORE COMMITTED! I CARE MORE THAN YOU DO"!

No - you just have less of a life.

[Sister_Steve]

This is the kind of attitude i'm talking about - "If we are self-righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit".

OH MY GOD - CAN YOU HEAR YOURSELF?!

Vegans take it too far - like i said, Organic Milk & Free-Range Eggs are enough. Anything beyond that is extremist behaviour.

End of.

I wasn't having a go at vegetarians actually. I don't think vegetarians ridicule vegans much do they? Not the ones I know anyway. I was more referring to meat eaters.

I don't think it is taking it 'too far'...'Extremist behaviour' has negative connotations, as if vegans are terrorists or something. How is it any of your fucking buisness if someone wants to have a vegan lifestyle? You're making out that their behaviour is affecting you or something. I don't think organic milk and free range eggs is enough actually, do you actually know what goes on in the dairy industry? Maybe you should find out before you start chatting shit. Knob 'ed.

[Jo Jo70]

This is the kind of attitude i'm talking about - "If we are self-righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit".

OH MY GOD - CAN YOU HEAR YOURSELF?!

Vegans take it too far - like i said, Organic Milk & Free-Range Eggs are enough. Anything beyond that is extremist behaviour.

End of.

Why is it extremist behaviour? What is your problem? :confused:

[cornelius blaze]

. I don't think organic milk and free range eggs is enough actually, do you actually know what goes on in the dairy industry? Maybe you should find out before you start chatting shit. Knob 'ed.

I think this shows what the thread is discussing, that vegans are or are being elitist & pious, with their attitude.

and you start to lose any respect when call someone a 'Knob 'ed'.

[Sister_Steve]

Keep your beak out.

I don't really care about gaining respect from anyone on here.

[Jo Jo70]

Too true - it's like we're scum for being Veggie's - almost as though we're worse in their eye's than meat-eaters!

"Oh, you're a Vegeterian? Well, i'm a VEGAN! I'M SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU. I'M SO MUCH MORE COMMITTED! I CARE MORE THAN YOU DO"!

No - you just have less of a life.

And btw none of the vegans I know have ever said, or even suggested, this to me. I think you need to ask yourself why it bothers you quite so much.

[cornelius blaze]

Keep your beak out..

No, it's an open forum. I can state my opinion. Your aggression proves you rather pious.


I don't really care about gaining respect from anyone on here.

It's a shame that you think that and that you have to be so churlish!

[Anaesthesine]

I can only speak anecdotally, about the only true, long-term vegans I know.

One is an old friend who has been a strict vegan for at least twenty years. She is not pious, elitist or extremist. I have always admired her for sticking to her beliefs, and I have never felt that she ever looked down on my vegetarianism, and she has plenty of friends who eat meat. She may have other character flaws, but being holier-than-thou isn't one of them.

The other hardcore vegan is my brother-in-law, who is just about the most down-to-earth, disciplined, common-sense kinda guy I know. He has served in the Marines, the Army and the Navy. He has volunteered his time with Engineers Without Borders, making a real, on-the-ground difference with NGOs in places like Africa, where he innoculated sheep for several weeks (not something you would think a vegan would do). He has managed to stay vegan even under the most arduous circumstances, and his discipline is super-human. He has finally met his waterloo, but that is another story.

Both of these people should not be lumped together with those vegans who are a bit high on themselves.

How come no one ever attacks the raw-foodists? They're totally nuts! :rolleyes: ;)

[chica]

This is the kind of attitude i'm talking about - "If we are self-righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit".

OH MY GOD - CAN YOU HEAR YOURSELF?!

Vegans take it too far - like i said, Organic Milk & Free-Range Eggs are enough. Anything beyond that is extremist behaviour.

End of.

Dude :doh:

You started that thread about your wife going vegetarian because you believe it somehow made her better than omnivores. If you can handle being better than omnivores because you're vegetarian, why can't you handle being worse than vegans for the same reason? I, as an omnivore, sure can handle being worse than both! :D Oh my god, I'm so much more special than you :p

[hatfull]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?
Well, it's personally choice really. I was veggie for 7 years, but I never considered being vegan, I like dairy too much! I eat meat now, and I don't feel any guilt. I don't like being preached at by anyone, nobody will change my mind, I feel people should respect my decision to eat meat the way that i respect their decision to not eat meat, if that makes sense.

[TrueToYou]

Being Vegetarian is like running half the race and sort of giving up before you reach the finishing line.
Seriously though, if you are vegetarian for ethical reasons then you really should be vegan. There are many reasons why, mainly the fact that the dairy/egg industry is directly linked to the meat industry and the levels of cruelty in the production of these products.
If you wanna eat meat that's fine. Just don't tell me I should because I don't tell you not to eat it unless you ask me why i'm vegan.

[EPbabe]

Well, it's personally choice really. I was veggie for 7 years, but I never considered being vegan, I like dairy too much! I eat meat now, and I don't feel any guilt. I don't like being preached at by anyone, nobody will change my mind, I feel people should respect my decision to eat meat the way that i respect their decision to not eat meat, if that makes sense.


It totally makes sense and this is exactly what I was saying in my post. :) No preaching, rrrrrrrrrespect!

[TrueToYou]

Vegans take it too far - like i said, Organic Milk & Free-Range Eggs are enough. Anything beyond that is extremist behaviour.



This is quite possibly one of the most ill-informed statements i have EVER heard.

[hatfull]

It totally makes sense and this is exactly what I was saying in my post. :) No preaching, rrrrrrrrrespect!
exactly. Preaching makes me run to the meat aisle in the supermarket :D

[lottie]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

NO, but i am not a vegan, i think its important to be aware and do what you can. the very fact that you are stepping away from the needless torturing of animals for your pleasure says a lot and it is a step in the right direction, if you never do more than that then you have done a lot more than most people will even consider let alone do.
my advice would be to NEVER EVER go back, and make sure you 'educate' as many people as possible about the benefits of being veggie, and (hopefully) if you can just make one person stop and think and perhaps do something to change their life, as your wife has, then youve done a good thing.
Karma man, Karma, :)

[chica]

It totally makes sense and this is exactly what I was saying in my post. :) No preaching, rrrrrrrrrespect!

Respect everyone's right to choose, but admit that some choices are a bit more admirable than others ;)

This is quite possibly one of the most ill-informed statements i have EVER heard.

Exactly.

[TrueToYou]

Respect everyone's right to choose, but admit that some choices are a bit more admirable than others ;)



Exactly.

See the thing which is SO frustrating is that it's culturally acceptable to make fun of vegetarians/vegans (just look at Johnathan Ross w/ Morrissey) but when we try to explain why we avoid meat/meat by-products we get labelled as being preachy. I don't think this is very fair.

[lottie]

See the thing which is SO frustrating is that it's culturally acceptable to make fun of vegetarians/vegans (just look at Johnathan Ross w/ Morrissey) but when we try to explain why we avoid meat/meat by-products we get labelled as being preachy. I don't think this is very fair.

snap. :)

[chica]

See the thing which is SO frustrating is that it's culturally acceptable to make fun of vegetarians/vegans (just look at Johnathan Ross w/ Morrissey) but when we try to explain why we avoid meat/meat by-products we get labelled as being preachy. I don't think this is very fair.

Well, it makes people uncomfortable about themselves, consciously or not. It's good to know how your meat/eggs/milk gets to your table, though. One can never be too much informed. I have a great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, being to lazy to become one myself doesn't mean I should snap at them every time they tell the truth ;)

[lottie]

Well, it makes people uncomfortable about themselves, consciously or not. It's good to know how your meat/eggs/milk gets to your table, though. One can never be too much informed. I have a great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, being to lazy to become one myself doesn't mean I should snap at them every time they tell the truth ;)

what a very honest statement, thankyou. :)

[TrueToYou]

Well, it makes people uncomfortable about themselves, consciously or not. It's good to know how your meat/eggs/milk gets to your table, though. One can never be too much informed. I have a great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, being to lazy to become one myself doesn't mean I should snap at them every time they tell the truth ;)

if you're ever in essex i'll cook you a cruelty-free meal that will taste amazing ;)

[chica]

Wow, thanks! :D

(I'll let you know in advance ;))

[hatfull]

Well, it makes people uncomfortable about themselves, consciously or not. It's good to know how your meat/eggs/milk gets to your table, though. One can never be too much informed. I have a great admiration for vegetarians and vegans, being to lazy to become one myself doesn't mean I should snap at them every time they tell the truth ;)
haha! yeah, it's quite nice to have seen both sides of the argument, having been veggie and eaten meat again. I still enjoy and eat a lot of veggie food, but I did miss meat, very much, and I'm not ashamed to admit I cracked and went back to meat!

[EPbabe]

Respect everyone's right to choose, but admit that some choices are a bit more admirable than others ;)


Fair enough. :)

See the thing which is SO frustrating is that it's culturally acceptable to make fun of vegetarians/vegans (just look at Johnathan Ross w/ Morrissey) but when we try to explain why we avoid meat/meat by-products we get labelled as being preachy. I don't think this is very fair.

Though I'm not vegetarian, I actually agree with what you've just said. By preachy I didn't mean people explaining their choice, but people who say that their choice is the right one. (Just as I don't agree with the starter of this thread who says it enough to be vegetarian and eat free range eggs. There is no such thing as "good" or "enough". These are choices.)

[cornelius blaze]

Being Vegetarian is like running half the race and sort of giving up before you reach the finishing line.
Seriously though, if you are vegetarian for ethical reasons then you really should be vegan. There are many reasons why, mainly the fact that the dairy/egg industry is directly linked to the meat industry and the levels of cruelty in the production of these products.

But saying something like what i have made bold is being what the thread starter is kind of talking about. Saying that is just belittling them in a way. Like they are not good enough, unlike you, because you are vegan. I think it's about choice and at least they are doing 'something'. BTW i am no having a go at you just starting my opinion of what i have read here.


If you wanna eat meat that's fine. Just don't tell me I should because I don't tell you not to eat it unless you ask me why i'm vegan.

I had this at christmas, as about 16 months i decided not to eat meat (i did 'slip" for many a year and there are many reasons for that). I had about 20 questions about it. I just told them. "its my choice, please respect that and yes i am a hypocrite as i have leather shoes". it did shut them up.


See the thing which is SO frustrating is that it's culturally acceptable to make fun of vegetarians/vegans (just look at Johnathan Ross w/ Morrissey) but when we try to explain why we avoid meat/meat by-products we get labelled as being preachy. I don't think this is very fair.

but look at the television personality involved, he would make fun of that aspect or belief of one his guests. Its a easy target for him.
I think it's the language used that comes across as "preachy" and their actions. I mean, i had a vegetarian put a sticker on a suede jacket that said she wrote 'murderer'.....sorry i lost any respect for that person the day she did that. she had no right. i told her before hand that it was second hand and it's better then the jacket going to waste and the money went to charity.

[Dave2006]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?


I think it might have been me who opened up that whole can of worms of the earlier thread. Sorry, I wasn't trying to ruin you and your wife's good news. I was trying to get some insight though..

As I explained, I've been veggie for about 17 years...but increasingly think it is a half hearted gesture involving little or no effort - for example I've been mad busy at work today and have spent the evening visiting my partner in hospital - I have eaten fast food all day (vegetable pastie from Greggs and a free range egg sandwich from the hospital shop) and I've lost count of the number of cups of (milky) tea I've drunk.

All veggie. Most involving animal cruelty :(

If I was a vegan I'd have had to put more effort into what I would have eaten today - maybe have even prepared it last night? - but no animals would have suffered.

I think I'd like to be vegan, but don't know if I can be arsed, and that disapoints me.


Final point; I can't believe there is another Huddersfield Town fan on this forum, let alone a vegan and living in Manchester - are you following me around?
Lets hope the wheels come off Leeds' season now that Wise has abandoned them :)

[TrueToYou]

But saying something like what i have made bold is being what the thread starter is kind of talking about. Saying that is just belittling them in a way. Like they are not good enough, unlike you, because you are vegan. I think it's about choice and at least they are doing 'something'. BTW i am no having a go at you just starting my opinion of what i have read here.



.

I put that as a joke, However, my sarcasm doesn't translate too well on messageboards....

[suparni]

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

Not really, no. I never used to be allergic to milk and dairy products. It was really weird and kind of scary when I started to break out in boils on my face (like big, hard, pockets of oil or fluid with no head... so its not like you could pick at or pop them but hey hurt like hell... I wanted to pop them because the pressure they put on my skin and the pain was really distracting and horrible... and because they embarrassed me!!!) I admit that I basically went vegan because of this strong allergy to even a little bit of milk or casein in any form. (Oddly I tried a yogurt in fiji and there was no reaction so could it be the things they add to it or the industrialized processed cow that I am reacting to? Perhaps yogurt is different but I am a little bit afraid to test too many products because these boils left scarring for months after they subsided.) I can eat eggs if I choose but I don't like them too much and only eat them when I have nothing else available (vacations or when I am out on a job etc.) and being dairy free for a while now, I don't like the feel of them for some reason.

Do I judge people who are not vegan? No way! (whereas I admit to sometimes challenging meat eaters with an unintentional but nonetheless actual attitude that actually is based in judgment (or at least dislike) of their choices. However, to be honest, my allergy made me a little bit bitter that I could not simply go get coffee anywhere as opposed what I do now.. basically starbucks or specialty places that have soy... and I have to cook for myself and read the menu for an hour only to order a side dish when out with friends, or not console myself with a nice piece of milk chocolate... I admit I was bitter having to buy my liquid vitamin B12 with folic acid and spend so much on foods I can deal with and I was just bitter at being so bloody sensitive (maybe it is my own fault because when I was living in India I got amoebas and lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks and it did some damage in my tummy I think...)

So what did I do with the bitterness I felt at my condition? I called myself vegan... at least I could have the title to make up for all the crap of not being able to eat dairy! And I looked into it and watched provegan videos to console myself and shine up my vegan crown so it would at least console me that I could not have a piece of chocolate cake...

but something else happened too... I started to feel better in my body, more relaxed and consistent, even less tense and sporadic, my weight stopped fluctuating up and down and I started to feel much more healthy in a consistent way - whereas before I was always really good (in a hyper kind of way) or really low (as in - in a ditch energetically.)

I started to learn about vegan options and cooking and the dairy isle at the grocery store - just the smell of it made me feel totally sick...

And then I realized - looking into it - that my body is rejecting milk and dairy because it does not want it... it was poisoning my body and it was making it get inflamed... not only on my outer skin, but inside - and now that the inflamation is gone and I am off dairy - I realize that for years it was causing problems that I never saw. I can only see it now that I am free of it though. I feel 500 percent better as a vegan and I am grateful for my allergy because I can be a very weak person and I might not be able to do this if I did not associate the milk with painful boils. But even if I were no longer allergic... I really don't consider dairy - human food anymore. I don't condemn others for consuming it, but I am living proof that you can live without it - and I know that I feel better without it. Even eggs bring me down a bit - even though I am not allergic to them. I am sure plenty of other vegans share this revelation of being healthier, happier, and more satisfied with life after dropping dairy - which for me was like lining my entire inside with a thick, icky, gunky goo that my body simply could not digest and that did not let my cells breathe.

Maybe some vegans are excited about how good it feels and want to share it and let everybody know so they give it a try - maybe it works for you too and you feel better than ever when you become one (B12 and folic acid is really important for energy and I also reccommend "The Ultimate Meal" shake once a week - green and takes getting used to but supplements in the best way!!!)

Maybe some vegans have seen the way animals are treated in dairy farms and they see those places like big, giant, huge smokestacks like in the HSIN video - only they are not only spitting out smoke and pollution (which they are) but also the super bad vibes of the pain and suffering by innocent animals.

Maybe some vegans are totally Nazi about it, hard headed, and obsessive, holier than thou, and immature - and to those vegans: the great master G.I. Gurdjieff would take these vegans and fill them with alcohol, all sorts of meat and dairy and cheeses and chocolates and yogurts and milk... just to break the religiousness you have around it. And that master would be right to do so. I respect those vegans decisions and recognize that they are not contributing to the many problems that the meat and dairy industry creates... but they are also a super drag to hang out with and talk to and they are pretty much limited people who I am no fan of being around... and not worth listening to.

[SpookyMulder]

I think this shows what the thread is discussing, that vegans are or are being elitist & pious, with their attitude.

and you start to lose any respect when call someone a 'Knob 'ed'.

DAMN RIGHT!

Vegans REALLY PISS ME OFF! If i had to be a Vegan or go back to being a meat-eater, i'd go back to meat - and that is saying something, as i'd hate myself for being a meat-eater again; But I couldn't be one of those pious, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, clique elitist Vegans.

I'm not trying to offend anyone - but i think the comments made by Vehans on here have backed my initial statements up.

END OF!

[cornelius blaze]

DAMN RIGHT!

Vegans REALLY PISS ME OFF! If i had to be a Vegan or go back to being a meat-eater, i'd go back to meat - and that is saying something, as i'd hate myself for being a meat-eater again; But I couldn't be one of those pious, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, clique elitist Vegans.

I'm not trying to offend anyone - but i think the comments made by Vehans on here have backed my initial statements up.

END OF!

No, some vegans annoy you. You can't say they act and say they all the same. Some are cool and not elitist & pious and this thread shows that. You have to and have be comfortable with what you want, in regards to what you want to eat.

[Dave]

I've thought about "going" vegan, and if I did I think I would feel like a better person. It's only laziness that I don't.

[jesuisbryony]

I've thought about "going" vegan, and if I did I think I would feel like a better person. It's only laziness that I don't.

Are you already vegetarian?
It's just a matter of changing what you buy. I was hesitant for ages about changing to a vegan diet but once I did it turned out to be pretty easy and not so different from before.

[Dow Jones]

Are you already vegetarian?
It's just a matter of changing what you buy. I was hesitant for ages about changing to a vegan diet but once I did it turned out to be pretty easy and not so different to before.

Yeah it's quite easy. Honey and HOT FUDGE ICE CREAM TOPPING are mourned for with every fiber of my being but whatever.

[EPbabe]

I've thought about "going" vegan, and if I did I think I would feel like a better person. It's only laziness that I don't.

Why??

[theneverplayedsymphony]

DAMN RIGHT!

Vegans REALLY PISS ME OFF! If i had to be a Vegan or go back to being a meat-eater, i'd go back to meat - and that is saying something, as i'd hate myself for being a meat-eater again; But I couldn't be one of those pious, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, clique elitist Vegans.

I'm not trying to offend anyone - but i think the comments made by Vehans on here have backed my initial statements up.

END OF!

I'm vegan, you're assuming all vegans care if you eat cheese or whatever! (Meat is different to me).

I really don't give a fuck about you drinking milk... you don't interest me really!;) Don't mean that in a rude way, you know what I mean probably!

[jesuisbryony]

Yeah it's quite easy. Honey and HOT FUDGE ICE CREAM TOPPING are mourned for with every fiber of my being but whatever.

Yeah I miss ice cream a little bit. The only place I've seen soya ice cream was in Rome :rolleyes: which is a little far.
I'm not too bothered though, there are worse things in life. :)

[theneverplayedsymphony]

Yeah I miss ice cream a little bit. The only place I've seen soya ice cream was in Rome :rolleyes: which is a little far.
I'm not too bothered though, there are worse things in life. :)

In Ireland, here, we get vegan HB ice-cream in tesco.... soya-chocolate... are there any markets or anything that do foreign brands (assuming you're not Irish)?

[Dow Jones]

Yeah I miss ice cream a little bit. The only place I've seen soya ice cream was in Rome :rolleyes: which is a little far.
I'm not too bothered though, there are worse things in life. :)

We've got good soy ice cream here so I'm quite content, it's just the lack of fattening chocolately syrup that gets me in right in the pit of my soul.

[jesuisbryony]

In Ireland, here, we get vegan HB ice-cream in tesco.... soya-chocolate... are there any markets or anything that do foreign brands (assuming you're not Irish)?

Hmm ok, there's definately nothing in Tesco and most of the markets near me just sell tat, I'll just check whenever I'm next at a health food shop.
:)

Edit: Thanks tnps :) and you're right I'm not Irish.

[jesuisbryony]

We've got good soy ice cream here so I'm quite content, it's just the lack of fattening chocolately syrup that gets me in right in the pit of my soul.

Oh I feel your pain. :)

[theneverplayedsymphony]

Hmm ok, there's definately nothing in Tesco and most of the markets near me just sell tat, I'll just check whenever I'm next at a health food shop.
:)

Edit: Thanks tnps :) and you're right I'm not Irish.

Booja-Booja do vegan chocolate ice-cream too:
http://www.goodnessdirect.co.uk/cgi-local/frameset/detail/332826_Booja_Booja_Stuff_in_a_Tub_Hunky_Punky_Choc olate_500ml.html

[MadameChaos]

Ha ha ha! Some maybe, but most are vegans as they don't agree with the dairy or egg industry as is causes unecessary suffering to animals. In both the males are seen as of no value and are disposed of, the conditions in which the animals are kept are inhuman even in the case of organic dairy farming in which cows with cysts are not allowed antibiotics and therefore suffer more.

Apart from that I will eat what I like thanks. I would never force my views onto anyone else, so I'd appreciate if you would not make a personality judgement on me just because I choose to opt out of eating certain foods for my own reasons.

[Hellie]

Call me ignorant :(...but as a life long veggie I was till the other day totally unaware that calves are sent to the slaughterhouse after milk production has dried up.

This has really left me wondering how other veggies who are not vegan deal with this whole milk issue.What should be done with the calves.Keeping them till they naturally expire would not be finacially viable.I have a friend who thinks once they die they could be used as humane leather.

I absolutely love diary products and am not sure i could convert to soya.

I will never ever eat meat again because its alien and abhoront to me but lately I have been feeling very pessimistic about it all.It seems the world cares less and less for animal welfare and more and more about their own selfish greed.:(

[half a person]

Yes. Yes they are.

I mean, did those high horses consent when you climbed upon them? These questions must be asked!

[Dave]

Are you already vegetarian?
It's just a matter of changing what you buy. I was hesitant for ages about changing to a vegan diet but once I did it turned out to be pretty easy and not so different from before.
I understand about changing what I buy, and that's what I mean about being lazy. It seems like so many products I like have milk or eggs. I don't eat meat for the usual reasons, and I don't feel like I'm giving up anything. I could do it, since a lot of what I eat has no animal products anyway, but I do feel I'd be giving something up. I think that it's about my commitment level vs my laziness.
Why??
Because I'd have less negative impact on the world.

[oye terence]

i am an elitist,but not because i am a vegan.:p

[chica]

I think so. The correct attitude would be to support even people who cut down on their meat consumption but they don't go completely vegetarian. If everyone had meat 4 times a month instead of 90, that would make a big difference. However, most vegans just go on about how nothing but veganism is good enough.

[oye terence]

I think so. The correct attitude would be to support even people who cut down on their meat consumption but they don't go completely vegetarian. If everyone had meat 4 times a month instead of 90, that would make a big difference. However, most vegans just go on about how nothing but veganism is good enough.

oh shut up.:p

i dont care what anyone else eats,i think its a personal choice,i choose to be a vegan,it does not make me a better person,i cant stand some of those on this forum who just talk down to those who eat meat as if they have committed a mighty sin.i take a "whatever floats your boat" outlook.

there are more important things to judge a person on,like how they dress.:p

[Kewpie]

This thread was posted by a troll who has been banned from the forums.

Better stop posting this because everyone already knows the answer. :o

[chica]

oh shut up.:p

i dont care what anyone else eats,i think its a personal choice,i choose to be a vegan,it does not make me a better person,i cant stand some of those on this forum who just talk down to those who eat meat as if they have committed a mighty sin.i take a "whatever floats your boat" outlook.

there are more important things to judge a person on,like how they dress.:p
Or their teefs :D
This thread was posted by a troll who has been banned from the forums.

Better stop posting this because everyone already knows the answer. :o
Oh, but the elitist and pious vegans wouldn't agree :p

[Kewpie]

Oh, but the elitist and pious vegans wouldn't agree :p


I didn't bother to read this from the beginning, as far as I'm aware the banned user was the elitist & pious vegan.

Who else?

Most of the people agree that they don't like imposing their life style choice to the others.

[teeth]

Congrats! :)

[chica]

I didn't bother to read this from the beginning, as far as I'm aware the banned user was the elitist & pious vegan.

Who else?

Most of the people agree that they don't like imposing their life style choice to the others.

There must be some! Please don't tell me Solo became all boring :tears: :p

[Buzzetta]

Congrats! :)

Would you happen to be related to:

http://modulo8.rendered.hyves.org/47950001-48000000/47977401-47977500/47977418_5_cLmX.jpeg

He had this great band called the Electric Mayhem....

[Dave]

This thread was posted by a troll who has been banned from the forums.

Better stop posting this because everyone already knows the answer. :o


I just notice that a lot of excellent threads get archived because no one pays attention, so I've decided that I'll look on pages 100 - 110 everyday and see if there's something that is in danger of being retired. I encourage everyone else to do the same. :)

[EPbabe]

I understand about changing what I buy, and that's what I mean about being lazy. It seems like so many products I like have milk or eggs. I don't eat meat for the usual reasons, and I don't feel like I'm giving up anything. I could do it, since a lot of what I eat has no animal products anyway, but I do feel I'd be giving something up. I think that it's about my commitment level vs my laziness.

Because I'd have less negative impact on the world.

I honestly don't understand how not drinking milk would do that. I understand the reasons behind the not eating meat part, and altough I chose to eat meat, I agree being vegetarian can have an impact on the world, but going vegan is just something I don't get.

[Dave]

I honestly don't understand how not drinking milk would do that. I understand the reasons behind the not eating meat part, and altough I chose to eat meat, I agree being vegetarian can have an impact on the world, but going vegan is just something I don't get.

But I'm sure that there are things that are hard to understand and yet they make sense?

[Dow Jones]

I honestly don't understand how not drinking milk would do that. I understand the reasons behind the not eating meat part, and altough I chose to eat meat, I agree being vegetarian can have an impact on the world, but going vegan is just something I don't get.
Stopping consumption of just about anything will make your footprint less horrifying.
Super easy to do that with animal products and doesn't support the companies that produce it, so fun for all, really.

[EPbabe]

But I'm sure that there are things that are hard to understand and yet they make sense?

Is this an argument?

Stopping consumption of just about anything will make your footprint less horrifying.
Super easy to do that with animal products and doesn't support the companies that produce it, so fun for all, really.

Okay, I do agree with that, reducing your footprint is something I can totally relate to and understand. But most of us live in big cities where you can't produce stuff for yourself so you have to consume what others produce. Do vegan products come in biodegradable packaging?

[Dave]

http://i37.tinypic.com/nybwgx.jpg

horrifying feet

[Dave]

Is this an argument?



My point is that some things make sense, whether everyone understands and agrees or not. Now, I remember that you said that foie gras is a good thing and very popular where you live. It's nothing against you personally, but if that is your opinion then there are things that I believe in that you wouldn't understand.

I personally can understand concepts of some higher forms of math when the concepts are written in words, but the equations don't make sense to me. But that doesn't mean that they don't make sense.

Further, it's always perplexed me, personally, that many people believe that, if they don't understand it it doesn't make sense. Often we fail to realize that it may be our ability to understand that is the key and not the inherent "sense" of the concept being considered.

As Suicidal Tendencies once said, "Just because you don't undertand don't mean it don't make no sense, and just because you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good".

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j4rsdx.gif

[chica]

I honestly don't understand how not drinking milk would do that. I understand the reasons behind the not eating meat part, and altough I chose to eat meat, I agree being vegetarian can have an impact on the world, but going vegan is just something I don't get.

Because cows have to be impregnated at least every two years so that they can continue to produce milk. Who needs all those calves? Especially male ones. So dairy industry cannot exist without meat industry.

Not to mention that lactating is uncomfortable. I wouldn't want to be lactating all my adult life, and if I don't want it for myself, I shouldn't want it for anyone. (Non-human animals included)

As for eggs, the same applies, I wouldn't want to squeeze out of my vagina every single day anything with proportions to my body that an egg has to the body of a hen.

Of course, you put up with both lactating and squeezing giant things out of your vagina occasionally, for your own benefit, such as passing on your genes. But would you do it to provide somebody with a slightly tastier meal? If not, then you shouldn't expect that others do it for you.

As for foie gras, those turkeys are force fed until they become ill, it's cruelty.

[Cassius]

As for eggs, the same applies, I wouldn't want to squeeze out of my vagina every single day anything with proportions to my body that an egg has to the body of a hen.


We have pet chickens and they lay eggs all of the time. We don't force them to, they just do it. They mate constantly.

[chica]

We have pet chickens and they lay eggs all of the time. We don't force them to, they just do it. They mate constantly.

Stupid chickens! :p They should join my autosexuality group.

[MadameChaos]

Just read this, or not it's up to you. I'm not going to preach to you, I don't have to justify myself and my beliefs. If you're interested about the truth, find out for yourself. http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/

[Cassius]

Stupid chickens! :p They should join my autosexuality group.

Hahaha! Seriously, chickens are horndogs. One time a hen died in the middle of the pen, and the other chickens jumped on her and started having sex with her. :eek:

[Cassius]

Just read this, or not it's up to you. I'm not going to preach to you, I don't have to justify myself and my beliefs. If you're interested about the truth, find out for yourself. http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/

You're exactly right. Nor does anyone else.

[Buzzetta]

Just read this, or not it's up to you. I'm not going to preach to you, I don't have to justify myself and my beliefs. If you're interested about the truth, find out for yourself. http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/

The Jihadists believe in their version of the "truth" as well. I subscribe to neither belief systems. Not even on a pay per view basis.

[Renia]

My dad's ex-girlfriend's parents actually had a farm, with chickens and uhm, Rheas (which are like ostrichs but smaller.) (oh and cats. and a dog.) They let their chickens basically do whatever. We'd come up in the driveway and there'd be a chicken crossing the road. I wish all farms were like that, but is not gonna happen. They didn't have cows though. :[

(Oh, but I hated gathering eggs. chicken eggs were okay. but not the motherfucking Rhea eggs. that involved going into the pen, (which the place was HUGE) and FIND the damn nests. and Rhea eggs are much larger and heavier to frikkin carry. :[
http://www.eggcrazy.com/Images/rhea%20eggs%20in%20a%20nest.JPG


I could care less really about vegans act, because it's not my problem. I don't eat meat, and that's the biggest thing. and it was hard for me to make the switch at that, because ALL of my family are gigantic meat eaters. I can't see myself turning vegan while still living with my family. It's hard enough as it is not eating meat while everyone else does.
but I might go vegan after I graduate college or something. so ha.

[Cassius]

They let their chickens basically do whatever. We'd come up in the driveway and there'd be a chicken crossing the road. I wish all farms were like that, but is not gonna happen. They didn't have cows though. :[


Ours is. In fact, I almost ran over three guineaus (sp?) the other day. They aren't the smartest birds, and instead of running away fromt the car, they will run in front of it. :rolleyes:

[theneverplayedsymphony]

As Suicidal Tendencies once said, "Just because you don't undertand don't mean it don't make no sense, and just because you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good".

http://i33.tinypic.com/2j4rsdx.gif

:D Ahh, Suicidal Tendencies! What's your favourite song of theirs? Mine's Fascist Pigs!

[theneverplayedsymphony]

Yes. Yes they are.

I mean, did those high horses consent when you climbed upon them? These questions must be asked!

You must please remember, it's only a preverbial high-horse!:D

[Renia]

Ours is. In fact, I almost ran over three guineaus (sp?) the other day. They aren't the smartest birds, and instead of running away fromt the car, they will run in front of it. :rolleyes:

yeah, they were pretty stupid. I believe some of them actually got killed by a dog that was one of the neighbors.

Her dad once had to kill a rooster (well, before he wanted to anyway. :[) because it would not stop crowing. oh and it attacked people.
They should've kept it though, seeing as the dogs that they have had are more interested in playing (or in Kate's case laying.) then attacking.

I want a killer attack rooster. :[

[half a person]

You must please remember, it's only a preverbial high-horse!:D

Well of course it's only a proverbial high horse, that was the point, it wouldn't be funny if they were real horses...

[theneverplayedsymphony]

Well of course it's only a proverbial high horse, that was the point, it wouldn't be funny if they were real horses...

Wasn't funny anyway!:p *runs*

[Dave]

:D Ahh, Suicidal Tendencies! What's your favourite song of theirs? Mine's Fascist Pigs!

That's a great one. I love the whole first record, but Subliminal for the riff and I Shot Reagan are a couple of mine.

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Not to mention that lactating is uncomfortable. I wouldn't want to be lactating all my adult life, and if I don't want it for myself, I shouldn't want it for anyone. (Non-human animals included)

As for eggs, the same applies, I wouldn't want to squeeze out of my vagina every single day anything with proportions to my body that an egg has to the body of a hen.

This is untrue. There is nothing uncomfortable about lactating, the only discomfort comes when you lactate but don't expel the milk. So if you pump or nurse regularly, it's perfectly comfortable.

I doubt that laying an egg gives a hen much discomfort. I understand that the reason childbirth is so painful for human women is the shape of our pelvises- the changes that evolved so we could walk upright made for more difficult childbirth.

[chica]

This is untrue. There is nothing uncomfortable about lactating, the only discomfort comes when you lactate but don't expel the milk. So if you pump or nurse regularly, it's perfectly comfortable.

I doubt that laying an egg gives a hen much discomfort. I understand that the reason childbirth is so painful for human women is the shape of our pelvises- the changes that evolved so we could walk upright made for more difficult childbirth.

Well we can't know what it feels like for a hen because we're not hens. But people do have a history of believing that certain human and non-human animals didn't feel pain when they were doing things to them which would clearly cause pain to adult humans, a.k.a. the rulers of the world. Conscience issues, I guess.

Lactating is uncomfortable. Maybe it wasn't for you, but you didn't have to walk with a huge udder between your legs. Cows get infections even when they're milked regularly. And god help them if they're producing organic milk, they'll just have to cope with the pain because they won't be given antibiotics.

[oye terence]

Well we can't know what it feels like for a hen because we're not hens. But people do have a history of believing that certain human and non-human animals didn't feel pain when they were doing things to them which would clearly cause pain to adult humans, a.k.a. the rulers of the world. Conscience issues, I guess.

Lactating is uncomfortable. Maybe it wasn't for you, but you didn't have to walk with a huge udder between your legs. Cows get infections even when they're milked regularly. And god help them if they're producing organic milk, they'll just have to cope with the pain because they won't be given antibiotics.

so really,we do not know if they enjoy laying their eggs,especially for humans and whether or not they would be willing to have sex with humans,your research is groundbreaking.:p

[5am]

Cows get infections even when they're milked regularly. And god help them if they're producing organic milk, they'll just have to cope with the pain because they won't be given antibiotics.

How do you know this? It seems untrue to me, since w/o antibiotics it take much longer, if at all, to get better. I really would like to believe I'm not getting any pus in my organic milk.

[chica]

so really,we do not know if they enjoy laying their eggs,especially for humans and whether or not they would be willing to have sex with humans,your research is groundbreaking.:p

Somebody will have to conduct an experiment :rolleyes::p

How do you know this? It seems untrue to me, since w/o antibiotics it take much longer, if at all, to get better. I really would like to believe I'm not getting any pus in my organic milk.

Sorry, but chances are that you do :eek: I read a research about it a long time ago, I'll try to find it on the internet.

[5am]

Sorry, but chances are that you do :eek: I read a research about it a long time ago, I'll try to find it on the internet.

Dear god please help me.

To quote my cartoon twin sister Lisa Simpson-

Milk is Murder!

[chica]

So far I only found this :p

http://images.cafepress.com/product/66852056v13_240x240_Front.jpg