ROTT...Your Final Verdict?

[Lost]

Ok we've been promised a new album soon and so ROTT will soon be part of his back catologue.
We've all had chance to assess it properly now so where does it fit into his body of work?
Here's my conclusion:

I've been through the whole spectrum of emotions about ROTT. I adored it initially...then I cooled on it ..then i wondered if i actually hated it!!
Now i'm out the other side and i just feel a bit indifferent about it.
I've realised that the problem with the album is that it's not really an album at all. The tracks are far too diverse stylistically. It's a mish mash. It's like the tracks don't really belong together. There is no real cohesion to it like there was with the emotionally charged YATQ.
I also feel there is such such a wide contrast of quality on the album. A real mixture of very strong and very weak tracks.
For example, I think tracks like the twee, wishy washy, 'In The Future' and the awfully monotonous 'At Last I Am Born' are utterly dreadful and are high up there with the worst Moz has ever done.
However, there are thankfully some true heavyweights like 'Pigsty', 'Dear God' and 'I Will See You'.
I'm not at all sure the collaboration with Visconti was a good thing. He was great with Bowie in the seventies but, er...that was the seventies!

Rating....His worst solo album:eek:

[Worm]

Still think it's good, but a lot of the initial affection I had for it has gone. I'm far more fascinated by the lyrical turns he took than in listening to the songs themselves. I think there are albums that sort of fill out and complete an artist's canon of work, lesser but still interesting records that merit judicious sampling rather than total admiration. ROTT is one of them. While I wouldn't say it's a great album, I think the overall picture Morrissey is giving us would be much poorer without it.

"Kill Uncle" and "Maladjusted" are worse in my opinion, but every other album is better.

[Lost]

Still think it's good, but a lot of the initial affection I had for it has gone. I'm far more fascinated by the lyrical turns he took than in listening to the songs themselves. I think there are albums that sort of fill out and complete an artist's canon of work, lesser but still interesting records that merit judicious sampling rather than total admiration. ROTT is one of them. While I wouldn't say it's a great album, I think the overall picture Morrissey is giving us would be much poorer without it.

"Kill Uncle" and "Maladjusted" are worse in my opinion, but every other album is better.

Some very good points there that i'd have to agree with.
(although I rate 'Kill Uncle' much more highly than you)

[Worm]

I rate most of the songs on "Kill Uncle" VERY highly, actually-- let's just say "Kill Uncle" isn't even a ghost of a whisper of a rumor as good as "1991 Tour".

[Slightly_Afraid]

Generally, I agree with those views above...Its a rag-bag of great, GREAT songs and some really iffy, sub-par ones.

Pigsty, You Have Killed Me, Anybody's Hero and Dear God are up there with the best of any Morrissey album, but At Last I Am Born, Boy Happy and The Youngest...are really, dreadfully average.

I dunno...Track for track, Quarry leaves it in the dirt, but somehow the production and the overall sound make Ringleader work better as an actual album. If he'd ditched the crap songs and put on Ganglord and If You Don't Like Me...It would have been better.

I'd say that its better than Kill Uncle and probably a slight better than Maladjusted, and quite close to Viva Hate (another album with great songs and average ones thrown in the mix), but is not a shade on Vauxhall, Arsenal or Southpaw.

[spleenhead]

At first I really loved some of it and now I like other parts more. For example, "I'll never be..." and "On the streets.." weren't favourites but now I like them very much. But when I bought it I was so excited about it that I wouldn't say that there was a sense of anti-climax exactly but maybe I wanted myself to like it that after 10-15 listens I secretly knew I was a little bored of it. However I do like it but only listen to it occasionally. I abandoned Quarry ages and ages ago but the excellent b-sides warrant regular listening so it's grown on me. At first I thought ROTT was better than Quarry song for song without the great hits like Irish Blood and First of the Gang but now I rate Quarry more highly in every way...

ROTT is Moz's worst album except Kill Uncle and Maladjusted -- saying that, though, I love them all..

[bagface]

if there was such a thing as a worst morrissey cd ringleader wouldn't even be close to it :p i love it. the only mediocre track to me is the father who must be killed, which still isn't that bad. personally i love all of his cds and ringleader is just as awesome as the others.

[imogen11]

I adore Morrissey, but I hate this album.
Still, I have faith - Anyone able to offer a bit more info regarding what he said about a new album on Xfm? Haven't heard the interview myself.

[floodzonex]

Parts are amazingly average
I Will See You...
At Last I Am Born

Parts are pretty good
You Have Killed Me
On The Streets...

Parts are great
To Me You Are...

To me it's about on par with Maladjusted, Kill Uncle and Quarry
All have classics, just not as many as the other records

[imogen11]

I adore Morrissey, but I hate this album.
Still, I have faith - Anyone able to offer a bit more info regarding what he said about a new album on Xfm? Haven't heard the interview myself.

Apologies! Just saw the other thread relating to this.

[mozmal]

Dear God Please Help Me is for me the best song by far on the album. Unfortunately, there are too many very average songs to make this a great Moz album. Quarry, for me is infinitely superior. :D

[Kickstand]

I like Ringleader of The Tormentors a lot. It's a vast improvement on 'Maladjusted' and 'You are the Quarry'. I also like it because it's different, the reason why I hold Morrissey (not just Steven but the band) and The Smiths in such high regard is that every album is unique and different, there aren't many artists who can keep re-inventing themselves as it were and Morrissey is one them.

I love 'I will see you in far off places', 'You have killed me', In The Future when all is well', The Father who must be killed, I'll never be anybody's hero now' and 'At Last I am Born'. They are my favourites, but I like the rest.

[duchess]

I love it. took me a while to appreciate it fully, but I think it's fantastic - feels "big".

[Danny]

Don't really get the sudden love for Quarry. Parts of that album are terrible. I don't recall people liking it that much before ROTT came out.

Still rate ROTT as one of his greatest. Probably on a par with Vauxhall.

[Poco Innocente]

Don't really get the sudden love for Quarry. Parts of that album are terrible. I don't recall people liking it that much before ROTT came out.

Still rate ROTT as one of his greatest. Probably on a par with Vauxhall.

It isn't a sudden love, far from it

[sonof77]

I listened to ROTT constantly on it's release and now can't listen to it at all. Perhaps it may grab me again soon but it is not one of his albums I have instantly loved. Every other album I still play at least once a month.

[half a person]

I like it, the only one I'd say I don't really like is 'On the Streets...' the lyrics, the vocals and the music just don't grab me on that one, but the rest of it I do like, not so much as others like Your Arsenal or Viva Hate, but I do like it. It's also his only his only album that I can sing along to, it's in a good key for me :) (sorry, sorry, I used to have singing lessons :p )

[Bluebirds]

Well I'm listening to it now on my I-pod (ok Discman!!!) and well yes I still think its his third best LP. Sonically superior to Quarry and "I've been shifting gears all of my life...."

[mspendl828]

I think it's fucking great.

[nightcrawler]

ROTT is an okay album. I like all of the songs, some of them are up with his best work (You Have Killed Me, Dear God, The Youngest..., On The Streets I Ran), but I don´t like the production very much.

I prefer the cleaner production of YATQ by far as well as the songs on YATQ, which is one of my favourite Morrissey-albums. But let´s not forget that he had some years to gather new songs for YATQ (the excellent b-sides proove that).

My favourite albums are (in that order)
You Are The Quarry
Vauxhall & I
Southpaw Grammar
Your Arsenal
Bona Drag
Viva Hate

[Maurice E]

I'd give Ringleader of the Tomatoes 7/10. A pretty good Morrissey album compared with 5.5/10 for Quarry; a third rate Morrissey album.

Ringleader, for me, has three great songs; Hero, Pigsty and Future; another three pretty good ones You Have Killed Me, The Youngest, Boy Happy, three ok-ish ones and three really duff songs which I've hardly played and don't want to hear again (Father, At Last, and On the Streets).

In my humble, the best collection of post-wilderness era Morrissey songs are the Quarry b-sides on the platinum album. Interesting lyrics which don't grate (unlike too many Moz songs these days), imaginative arrangements, strong melodies etc; Friday Mourning, Walk Tall, Never Laid (that's the never played) Symphonies, Daddy's Voice; these are all top-notch, prime-time Morrissey pop songs!

[sonof77]

No Kill Uncle ?

[alma matters]

I think it is exellent. I latched on to it the second I put it in after purchasing it. It grabbed me more than Quarry did and still does. It is not his best, as it does include a few tracks that to me are just subpar. There are one or two I will sometimes skip over, which is an adjustement compared to some of the greats like, Arsenal, that I would never touch the skip button. I ruined it for myself, however, by listening to it though a tough time, and it constantly reminded me of that time. Seeing it live though put it in a new perspective for me though and I adore it all the more. Far off places is not done any justice on the album...my goodness...live it is so beautiful and amazing!

[duchess_of_fork]

I don't know how much I appreciate the album lyrically...I still remeber reading Dear God Please Help Me before I've heard the song and I thought that the lyrics were a bit silly (but then I got the album and I listened to it and I really started liking it..the music gives it a different mood)...it just may be that he's way too personal on this album. it's very much his own, and because he speaks about love, and I am not nor have ever been in love, I find the songs very difficult to relate to. However, in the future when all's well is a classic!
Well...I suppose a lot of his other songs are about love too...but different types of love. Temporary, maybe even infatuations...but this one talks about life-ending, life changing, love...and I just can't relate to that as much.

[I am a Ghost]

I think it's amongst his best work, up there with "Arsenal" and "Vauxhall".

[Still Tired]

I don't know how much I appreciate the album lyrically...I still remeber reading Dear God Please Help Me before I've heard the song and I thought that the lyrics were a bit silly (but then I got the album and I listened to it and I really started liking it..the music gives it a different mood)...it just may be that he's way too personal on this album. it's very much his own, and because he speaks about love, and I am not nor have ever been in love, I find the songs very difficult to relate to. However, in the future when all's well is a classic!
Well...I suppose a lot of his other songs are about love too...but different types of love. Temporary, maybe even infatuations...but this one talks about life-ending, life changing, love...and I just can't relate to that as much.

I agree completely with feeling a little distanced from the songs content wise, I can understand where he's coming from but have no personal experiences I can relate to in order to enjoy the songs on a deeper level. For example, on At Last I Am Born, I can listen to it, think it witty, but it doesn't go any further- unlike the vast majority of the rest of his songs. And with Boy Happy, I still have an issue with that, I just can't get into it at all and I really don't know why. I can't help wonder if it's an age thing, he sounds like he's reflecting on his life and undergoing a re-birth, whereas I'm just starting out on my life!

I don't play ROTT half as much as I thought I would, but I think that may be due to the fact I far more prefer the gentler songs, ones that are more atmospheric and his voice is the main thing to come through (which is why I have such affection for Kill Uncle). Whereas most of the songs on the album are loud, both literally and in the musical composition! At one concert he introduced the first song to be sung off the album as being one of his 'music hall tracks', which I thought was a pretty good description in a way- of these loud bombastic works. If the whole thing was in the vein of Dear God/ Pigsty, that'd be perfect for me. And I have loved some of the b-sides far more than the album tracks (Sweetie-pie/ If You Don't Like Me) and it seeemed such a shame they were left off.

I have had moments of thinking the album is actually pure genius, then I just don't play it for ages... hearing the tracks played live endeared me to some of them a lot more it has to be said. I suppose to sum it up, I really love some of the songs, and really don't like others, and those extremes haven't happened with any of his other albums for me.

[Mozzaa]

Again Like He Should Have Done With YATQ Choose Some Of The B-Sides To The 'Album Fillers'(Not That I Would CAll Any Of Them That) Like Don't Make Fun And The Public Image Should Have Been Included Insted Of Some Other Material(Not Going To Nit Pick) Or Maybe Swapped. Like With This Album Some Of The B-Sides Would Have Been Better On The Album. And Will People Stop Berrating Kill Unlce I Rate It VERY Highly And Have Never Said It's A Lesser Album When It Isn't At All Mute Witness Is One Of My Fave Songs Ever And There's Just As Good Songs On This Than Most Of His Albums...

[Lilac 1]

Personally I love it. Possibly my favourite solo album but this tends to change fairly regulary. Love all the b-sides too (as always)

Hearing all the songs performed live has really added to my enjoyment of it also.

Lets hope 2007 brings us another great Moz record

[Stanley]

ROTT for me promised much but delivered little. The build up was good - Visconti at the helm, Moz inspired by Italy (a country I love) and a collaboration with Morricone.

I wasn't sure when I first listened to it and actually turned it off before the end as it was just too disapointing for words. Having said that it has grown on me over time. My opinion now is that it is a weak album that is saved by having 3 amazing songs on it - Pigsty, Dear God and You Have Killed me. 3 of my favourite tracks since the moz comeback. The rest of the songs I feel indifferent about.

In a nutshell - if you are new to morrissey, don't buy this album, just download these 3 tracks from itunes!

[Jeff196]

Agree with Stanley...

[dagenham don]

Guilty! of being a great album.

[the more you explore me!]

prefer it more then quarry, but like that lp i do skip tracks which something i didn't do with the others... except malajusted, i just play the singles from that lp.
but ROTT is better then nothing. the live shows i have sen this year made me like it more too!

[Pervomartovtsi]

thumbs up sincerely...it was just not what I was expecting...I liked it better than YATQ, which is very good, but I don't know maybe I was expecting an album filled with it's hard to walk to tall when youre small type songs...

love him still, for and ever

[Slip-In]

ROTT is the first Morrissey album I wasn't inclined to learn all the lyrics at once to for whatever reason, I don't think its because it is a bad album at all.

But it is what I love so much about Morrissey, none of his previous albums reflect much on the current one, YATQ served its purpose and now so has ROTT in his career.

I do agree there is a sense that most songs on ROTT do not connect much with each other, especially in the album order but variety is the key word I think.

Let's not forget, he's said many times before, "It's best to give an audience what it doesn't want" and this time that statement rings so true.

I hardly think Tony Visconti's production would have made things any different had he not produced the album but his input is written all over it and I think Moz is very happy about that and that's enough for me really.

My only sour grape about ROTT is that they didn't record enough B-Sides but I digress.

I am just truly happy to have Moz back, let's face it, had he not liked, agreed to sign with Sanctuary, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Having said that, I think there are some very VALID points on this thread, :cool:

[lztom]

With the obvious provisos that any Morrissey album is streets ahead of anything else out there and, of course, IMHO....

It's very average overall. Boring even in places. You can see my comments in the 'Tobias Thoughts' thread but to echo them here, he brought very little to the table in terms of song writing ability. It's stretching an analogy but in parts, it almost sounds like a slowed down version of a bad AC/DC record the way that song after song pounds away with those monotonous rock riffs that Tobias chugs away at in strict 4:4 time. Lyrically, as ever, the album is very very good but I think the Tobias contribution hampered the record's chances of being truly good or great overall.

That said, there's some good and really good songs on there with DGPHM, TYWTMY and INBAHN (an obvious better choice as single than ITFWAIW and IJWTSTBH) being the most prominent. Not really mad about IWSYIFOP- I love Zeppelin but I just don't think Morrissey doing Zeppelin-esque tracks is the way he should be looking to go at ALL. I may be going against the grain here but I have never liked Life Is A Pigsty. When I saw the tracklist initially, I loved the title but this song leaves me completely flat. To me, the music is just bog standard muso's pseudo prog-rock. Again, I'm all for Morrissey trying new styles out but prog rock is another bad direction for me. Don't like the song live at all either.

All of the above probably sounds wholly negative and ungrateful. I still listen to the record sometimes and it's light years ahead of 99% of other records released in the last twelve months. It's just that Morrissey has such a stunningly high quality back catalogue, so when he releases an album which is, ultimately, as average as I feel this will be considered in the long term, it is not going to compare well. We all know how much better he can do.

[thewarroom]

I may be way off base with this, but here goes...

I didn't really care for this album on its release...and I still don't. As has been previously stated by others, it certainly does have its moments (YHKM, TYWTML, Pigsty) but it has far too much filler material. Much of this album could not hold a candle to even average YATQ b-sides. It's bland. I listen to my 7 inch "YHKM" single more than the rest of the album, mostly for "Good Looking Man About Town".

But as we know, Moz does not stay in one particular "sub-genre" for too long. This was a return to glitter/prog rock, all of which was done better between "Arsenal" and "Maladjusted" (an album that I still quite like :D).

I wonder how much of it has to do with a desire to remain outside of the mainstream. In the USA, he was untouchable from 1991-94. He even had a hit single (!) in "Closer." But then he released an album in "Southpaw" that was unlistenable to a lot of American listeners who just didn't get it. He faded from view in 1995, and returned with the release of Quarry. He had a few songs receive airplay in the states, and even made an appearance on American television (even if it WAS Craig Kilborn's show lol). And now he has released the polar opposite of Quarry, an album that has not gotten much airplay in the states, despite several bands of late hailing Morrissey as an icon or hero.

<SIGH> How I long for the days of seeing "Morrissey/Street" beside any track. Or even "Morrissey/Nevin" for that matter ;) . A poor choice of producer and chief songwriting partner in Jesse T. Still, I applaud his efforts to ensure that no two albums are exactly alike, stylistically or otherwise.

[Stanley]

Having given this more thought I think some of the negatives are down to the fact that the album is quite slow paced and there aren't many fast dynamic songs like there was on quarry. This was apparent with the live shows earlier on the year.

Good call about Good Looking Man about town - a song I've only really just got into. Not sure about the beginning but it's a cracker....

[Jeff196]

I think the songs are good. BUT the production is not complimentary to many of the songs (except In the Future/ Youngest/ YHKM/ Dear). The secondary songs, are muddy sounding to me. But they could have been great - they are simply not glam rock songs:

Hero, Boy Hapy, Father, Art - these could have been gorgeous, but to me they are jammed with too much stuff...

[aurora]

Personally, i find that ROTT is a really strong album overall but it tends to become a bit too boring a little too often. There are no bad songs on the album but a few that are downright unintresting... songs like At Last I Am Born, I Just Want to See the Boy Happy and The Youngest Was the Most Loved being the best examples of this. I absolutely adore the rest, though!

[lux girl]

ROTT has cooled a bit for me. Loved it at first, then listened more and realised there are only about 3 outstanding tracks for me. Pigsty, Dear God and believe it or not, You Have Killed Me.

YATQ is by far my fave, possibly because of the preceeding wilderness years where there was no musical output at all.

[SRA]

I think ROTT lacks the oustanding singles that YATQ had, nothing on it quite reaches the chart busting levels (quality wise) of First Of The Gang or Irish Blood, English Heart (one of his best solo songs ever IMO) but overall I think ROTT is a better album.

I like the atmosphere and texture of the tracks on ROTT whilst on the previous album it sounded a bit synthetic. I know this isnt about comparing YATQ and ROTT however so to judge ROTT on it's merits alone...

It represented quite a brave step for Moz I think. You may not like it but at least you can never accuse the man of standing still, I like the adventerous feel to the album, musically and lyrically, even if some of it doesnt come off. YATQ for example felt like a bit of a 'safe' album, unadventerous, which is understandable given he had to reestablish himself in the mainstream again.

I really liked ROTT at first, some of the magic may have worn off but overall I still think it offers some terrific songs. Work of Art, Youngest, and Born are probably the only real duds on there in my opinion.

Maybe at times the lyrics arent as poetic as in the past, thats the only criticism id have of the mans words.

An all round good album in my opinion though perhaps missing one more oustanding track along with Pigsty.

[unruly boy]

Up there with his very, very best. A country mile ahead (see what I did there!?) of Quarry but still not as good and Vauxhall and I, probably ties with Viva Hate in my humble.

[Theo]

Everyone knows Ringleader is the worst Morrissey album since Kill Uncle. Some are correct that the production was bad. Others are correct that the band is stale and are tapped out. Adding more players and instruments to the mix made the album better than it would've been, but it can't cover up the un-inspired songwriting. The band have settled into an "I'm just a sessionist/lawnmower part" attitude (you can even see this in how they perform on tour).

It's also the dullest and least fun Morrissey album. Duller than Kill Uncle, actually, though it's better than Kill Uncle in most respects. There was a brief period where I was finding enthusiasm for the album (or trying to force myself), but now I rarely feel like sitting through it. His best albums have never gotten tiring unless I listen to them 5 times in a row in one day. Ringleader makes me tired and looking around for something better to play less than one minute into the opening song.

Someone once said that a great album has at least three great songs and no bad songs. It's hard for anyone who listens to Morrissey a lot to admit that any of his songs are flat-out bad, and I'm not gonna say any of these are. Even on his worst songs there's still enjoyment to be had. But if I were asked for a list of the worst Morrissey songs, a whole handful of Ringleader songs would be chosen, particularly the last two tracks. I like albums that begin and end well. There's some good stuff in the middle of Ringleader, but it begins poorly and ends like a smelly piece of shit.

As far as great songs..."Work of Art" and perhaps "Pigsty," but only "Work of Art" for sure. So, it doesn't have enough great songs, unlike Quarry.

I don't know why people are surprised that people like Quarry more. As far as I can tell, a bunch of the people in this new and not improved Morrissey-Solo forum became fans on the strength of You Are The Quarry. Even the b-sides were much stronger, which tends to happen when you're in a creative peak. The best b-side for Ringleader is just a cover - "Human Being." (Note: I haven't heard the b-sides from the final single yet. The fact that I didn't rush out and get 'em shows how deflating the recent effort was. I'll get 'em all eventually; just not a high priority.)

[Mmmmmm]

Aptly put Theo.

ROTT is the first album I've not bought (I started with "The Smiths" in '84). Downloaded and listened and felt disappointed. Just plain lackluster. Even the best tracks are not terribly memorable and unlike "Kill Uncle" the lyrics are unimaginative and stale. Musically it is nondescript throughout.

The spell I was under is broken.

[Dave]

http://www.hardcoretees.net/images/imagesforebay/T_ilchated.jpg

[byrondeniro]

it's good, i like it. why do folk insist on forcing their opinions on others?
at the end of the day do you think Morrissey would give a flying one about your analysis...........lol or anyone else

[Roma De Moz]

Ringleader failed to scale the artistic heights it set out to. The move to Rome, collaboration with Ennio Morricone, and production from Tony Visconti all sounds splendid on paper, but the musicians failed to fully grasp such opportunity by the reigns and make something truly innovative out of them, in my opinion.

In this way that the album was marketed, I was expecting a lush, epic, orchestrated Moz opera. Emotional ballads one minute, and bombastic Italian rock-out's the next. I thought the liberation that Rome and sex had for Morrissey would inspire him no end lyrically, and that the pop poetry we knew would only shine as a result.

There are moments of brilliance on the album: the music soars in places, and the lyrics occasionally hit the nail on the head, but the whole thing felt as if the musicians and Morrissey were holding back. I call this 'Southpaw Grammar'-syndrome: he had attempted something genuinely 'different' and 'adventurous' with that album, and for the most part, it failed to successfully pay of with the audience. Part of me feels Morrissey was tentative to take that extra leap with this record as a result of that prior experience, and recorded Ringleader with only one foot in the door so to speak. The same can be said for Maladjusted, which felt like Moz was reluctantly returning to the musical ways of old after SG got such a gruelling. While I rate Ringleader above Maladjusted any day of the week, the same principle applies: Morrissey was circling the pool when he should have been diving in,

With the build-up to Ringleader though, everything seemed to fit and the circumstances of his eight studio album spelt wonderful things. It really did ooze the potential of being one of the best records in his canon, simply by the premise. The diversity in sound isn't to be denied, but it doesn't come of nearly as unique as it could have done.

As I say, there really are great moments: Dear God, Please Help Me is absolutely sublime, Youngest is a strong and haunting single, and Future and Hero are amongst some of my favourite tracks in a long time. I just feel very frustrated at times when I listen to the album, because I know it could have been so much more. It isn't the masterpiece it should have been, but it is a solid album. Not as consistent as Quarry, but more ambitious.

[drowning girl]

From the beginning (=release) I didn´t like ROTT very much.
I had no connection to any of the songs, I was not very impressed by the lyrics and I hated the way Visconti had produced it.

BUT...I heard those songs live and they sound really good and powerful.
For me there are studioROTT and liveROTT.

I don´t know if I will ever listen to studioROTT again, because of two reasons: 1. Haven´t listened to it since the first week after release and didn´t miss anything and
2. liveROTT sounds too good in comparison to Visconti´s old-fashioned and styleless studio work. (This proves me right: Stephen Street would have done it so much better...or Steve Lillywhite...but it´s too late)

Of course, we are people with lives and opinions and we all, more or less, somehow develop (in any possible direction).
ROTT says nothing to me about my life, but this is really okay. It´s not all about and for me.
One album has to be the least loved and for me this is ROTT while my hubby likes it...

[C.J.M]

I think its superb. i can't beleive it could be considered as bad or worse than kill uncle. At first i was not keen, it takes a few listens 2 get into it. Its really grown on me, i actually think that it has some of moz's best singles on it, i think on the streets i ran is probably the weakest song, ganglord should defientely have made it onto the album though because it really is a fantastic song.

[faroffplaces]

His best or second-best after Your Arsenal, depending on the day. Mostly the former.

Persona-driven but not persona-ridden. Excellent lyrically, doesn't really run on wordplay but instead on multiple meaning and juxtaposition. The vocal schtick and interpretations are note-perfect. Endlessly gory to interpret. Funny, angsty, ecstatic, ambitious, vast.


Caveats: I think it would've been a better rock album (but a worse piece of literature) if a few tracks had been yanked and replaced with B-Sides. Somewhat overproduced, though this may have been a conscious decision. I don't get along with "At Last I Am Born."

I wonder if there's a way to poll for Morrissey's most polarizing album? I think if nothing else, we can agree that Ringleader'd make top three. :D

[Born under a bad sign]

I think its excellent but never listen anymore
I prefer his old stuff or the smiths...never off the player

[Gregor Samsa]

Well, well... It's not in his top three albums.
If I would make a list over his albums (excluding Bona Drag, since it is in fact a compilation) it would look like this:
1. Vauxhall & I
2. Your Arsenal
3. You Are The Quarry
4. Viva Hate
5. Southpaw Grammar
6. Ringleader of the tormentors
7. Maladjusted
8. Kill Uncle

But I feel that none of these albums are BAD, they're all containing quality music, some more than others of course.

ROTT does, I must say, have one of his best songs of his entire career; Life Is A Pigsty.

But my overall judgement is as follows:
A couple of great tracks(Pigsty, Anybody's hero, Dear God, YHKM), but also some quite bland tracks. The production isn't the best I've ever heard, but the lyrics are often inspired and nicely delivered. With a few exceptions of course (In the future when all's well, The Youngest...).
The melodies are quite bland as well at some points (Work of art, In the future, The father, Far-off places), and this truly irritates me.
Boz should have been more involved with this record, Tobias shouldn't have.

To conclude: It is too uneven to be called a great album, and yet it contains too many great tracks to be called a bad album.
3 out of 5 stars, or something like that...

[lilybett]

My final verdict is this:

In my opinion, ROTT has some real gems on it but also some real mediocrity. Life Is A Pigsty, I Will See You In Far-Off Places and You Have Killed Me being gems and Dear God..., At Last I Am Born and On These Streets I Ran being the dullards. And the remaining songs are just decent tracks.

I find myself skipping over Dear God... etc, I think they're that poor. But I think Life Is A Pigsty etc are so fooking good that they compensate for the weaker efforts. I think these songs will go down in history as classics: imho, Pigsty is as good as any Smiffs track. Or, at least they will for me. :)

[Kuiper]

I think Ringleader is a true masterpiece. At first I disliked it. I didn't just think it was his worst effort, I actually did not enjoy listening to it. I thought there were a couple listenable songs, notably On the Streets, The Youngest, and The Father. Then I started listening to it more, the songs I had already liked grew on me more (mostly On the Streets), and a few ones that I never really went for fast became favorites, Pigsty and In the Future being highest among them. Even Dear God and I'll Never Be, which I disliked for a long time, I have grown to like, but still not as much as the rest of the album.

Here's where I rank it:
1: Your Arsenal
2: Strangeways, Here We Come
3: Southpaw Grammar
4: Viva Hate
5: Ringleader of the Tormentors
6: The Queen is Dead
7: Vauxhall and I
8: Meat is Murder
9: You Are the Quarry
10: Maladjusted
11: The Smiths
12: Kill Uncle

[durutti]

ROTT left me very dissapointed!!! I was expecting much more and i only felt ... bored listening to it! After some time I came to appreciate some songs (like: I will see you, Pigsty) but it in general it remains average (for me).

P.S. I am always suprised when hearing that someone doesn't like Kill Uncle... (anyway, it's much better than ROTT!)

[Harsh Truth]

the Youngest was the Most Loved, You Have Killed Me, On the Streets I Ran, I Just want to See the Boy Happy, In the Future When All is Well are all very good songs.

The rest is C and D level filler, in my opinion.

And that includes "Life is a Pigsty." <ducks for cover!>

[andy_fozzy]

I think it's fucking great.


:D he he!!!

Piggy is one of the best things to ever happen to me.
Still makes me cry now.....

On the whole, I prefer YATQ, but still love ROTT.

[lilikoi]

I Will See You In Far Off Places - good but a bit too bombastic for my taste
2. Dear God, Please Help Me - good lyrics but makes me yawn musically
3. You Have Killed Me - good but a bit too mainstreamish
4. The Youngest Was The Most Loved - same thing
5. In The Future When All's Well - really love that one, especially the lyrics
6. The Father Who Must Be Killed - quite awful
7. Life Is A Pigsty - good one
8. I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero - lovely, very 'croony', like it
9. On The Streets I Ran - love it
10. To Me You Are A Work Of Art - nice one
11. I Just Want To See The Boy Happy - pretty good, but a bit too easylistening
12. At Last I Am Born - love it

I alos prefer these songs live than on CD. I don't care for the way his voice is recorded. too soft. more powerful live.

I cannot understand why so many people say kill uncle is his worst album. I absolutely love that one.
I hate southpaw, especially track 1 - that's got to be his worst (musically at least)

[Paulc]

having read all these opinions for and against ROTT i simply cannot wait to get home and stick it on!!

I love it! I think i love it more than YATQ and nearly as much as some Smiths or earlier Moz albums. I definitely prefer it to Maladjusted and Southpaw.

Unlike most i am a big fan of Kill Uncle and i think ROTT is well up there with KU and Your Arsenal.

I adore Life is a Pigsty, You have Killed Me, TYWTML, IJWTSTBH but my absolute favourite on this album is "I will see you in far off places....messing around....and pulling faces":) :D

Genius

[starless]

The album has certainly grown on me.

I Just Want to See the Boy Happy, You Have Killed Me and Life is a Pigsty are great.

In time you will start to appreciate the ROTT more. Time will prove everything.

[jossu]

starless: Hear hear!

At first I was a bit disappointed with ROTT but now it has definately grown on me. Especially Dear God Please Help Me. I can't understand people who hate, for example, A Work Of Art. Call me mad but I absolutely love the song:D