The religion thread

[drunken goldfish]

Do you believe in God? If you don't, do you still celebrate holidays or practice your religion in some way? Have you ever considered converting to another religion? Etc. etc.


(See? I have other interests ;) ).

[wolve]

This was an interesting discussion some while ago. (http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=61253&highlight=christian)

[drunken goldfish]

Thanks for foiling my attempts at more high brow discussion ;) .
And there's other religions out there, you know...

[Dave]

I'm a wicker. A very wicked wicker.

[wolve]

I don't think there's a lot of diversity on this board when speaking of faith. The major part is atheist. Right?

[Dave]

Not me. I believe in something but can't really condense it into a few sentences. If asked if I believe in God, I answer yes, but I'm probably not talking about the same thing they are.

[drunken goldfish]

The major part is atheist. Right?

Well, I'm not :) . I don't practice my faith too much though, I keep my own version of kosher (food) and fast on Yom Kippur, but that's it. My boyfriend's an atheist, but as he always says "there are no atheists in the trenches" ;) (WWI saying?).
What about more exotic stuff like Kabbalah, Buddhism, New Age, anyone interested in those?

[wolve]

I've always been interested in Buddhism, but I'm not going to convert.
I've always been proud too of being baptised, and I find it important to have a religion, but it's hard to pray. I do love the Bible as a 'storybook', but I'm not a fundamentalist.

[Sinefil]

There is God...
And that's his picture:

http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/gallery/data/media/32/tan.jpg

:D

[drunken goldfish]

Blasphemy! :D I mentioned it in another thread, that I saw him make a crossing himself gesture during "There is a Light", and today I saw him do it before the start of a gig. So I guess he doesn't agree with you ;) .

[DeliciousDemon]

I have this ambivalent feelings towards religion - on one hand I think I do believe in something (at least before my exams and while I'm flying) but I completely disrespect and denounce organized religion, church, all the nonsense rituals etc. I do Christ-myth (as Moz calls it) and Easter, first one because I enjoy it - second one out of respect for my mother's artistic attempts on the eggs, nothing else. In other words, there are certain parts of religion that I respect and enjoy - I do believe in "something" - but I like the relation between me and that something to be direct, without any go-betweens, esp the church.

[wolve]

what is that something to you then, DeliciousDemon?

[DeliciousDemon]

what is that something to you then, DeliciousDemon?

I don't know, some sort of force that is beyond us I suppose ... I don't spend too much time thinking about this and have no formed opinion on it, I just know that thinking that it's there, sometimes makes me feel better, makes things easier to understand and comforts me. I'm otherwise a very rational person (sometimes even too rational!) but there are certain situations in life where you just hope that something beyond you will help you out. I know this sounds too confusing but I guess that these things cannot be explained in an articulate manner anyway.

[the more you explore me!]

i beleive in COD.

as Codreanu pictures of cats are really nice and cute.

was that the question!!!!

[drunken goldfish]

TMYEM, we're trying to make a revolution around here, get with the program! ;) .

[the more you explore me!]

well if it's a revolution Codreanu can lead it with his cat pictures...

and a fish which has been on the holy wine.

[Denia]

The thought that there might actually be a God out there is the only thing that keeps me from going mental. I enjoy religion.. just not organized, of course.

[hatfull]

I'm Wiccan too, and I believe in many Gods and Goddesses, but they all encompass one God and one Goddess. If that make sense... this time of year is my favourie, as it's nearly Samhain (New Year) on 31st October. I think that what I believe in has helped to get me through was has been a very difficult time.... but it is just a personal belief, I would never try and impose it on anyone.

[drunken goldfish]

I'm Wiccan too, and I believe in many Gods and Goddesses, but they all encompass one God and one Goddess. If that make sense... this time of year is my favourie, as it's nearly Samhain (New Year) on 31st October. I think that what I believe in has helped to get me through was has been a very difficult time.... but it is just a personal belief, I would never try and impose it on anyone.

I've never met a Wiccan, it sounds really interesting, could you tell us more? And does your family mind?

[Pervomartovtsi]

if god was god he should be aware that I don't believe that he's good and that I always say heretic stuff ,so he would have thrown a damn straight ray(with thunder included)long time...ergo he's not that powerful or he just doesn't exists

[Dave]

if god was god he should be aware that I don't believe that he's good and that I always say heretic stuff ,so he would have thrown a damn straight ray(with thunder included)long time...ergo he's not that powerful or he just doesn't exists

He thinks it's cute. :p

[Pervomartovtsi]

maybe...:)

[WhyteGrrrl]

I'm Wiccan too, and I believe in many Gods and Goddesses, but they all encompass one God and one Goddess. If that make sense... this time of year is my favourie, as it's nearly Samhain (New Year) on 31st October. I think that what I believe in has helped to get me through was has been a very difficult time.... but it is just a personal belief, I would never try and impose it on anyone.

brightest blessings, hatful!

[chica]

if god was god he should be aware that I don't believe that he's good and that I always say heretic stuff ,so he would have thrown a damn straight ray(with thunder included)long time...ergo he's not that powerful or he just doesn't exists
Why does he have to be a he... it's so frustrating :rolleyes:

[drunken goldfish]

^^I doubt anyone really thinks it's a "he", it's more of a figure of speech. Do religions really assign a gender to God? Seems silly to me. Anyway, I think it's just part of the sad reality in which the default for anything is male - "everyman", "mankind", the fact that the little people in signs are all male (except the ones on ladies' toilets :) ). It's a man's world :( .

P.S. Hi, chica! *smootch* (just a hello, don't want to hijack the thread, even though it is mine ;).

[chica]

Yes, you're right, but I'd love to see some gender-neutral language in religion talk! Wouldn't that be fun? :eek: The world would stop turning I guess...

Hi Goldie, missed ya!

[Wild Oscar]

I don't think there's a lot of diversity on this board when speaking of faith. The major part is atheist. Right?

Definitely, absolutely + categorically; like you referenced, we discussed it all previously...

[Wild Oscar]

Do you believe in God? If you don't, do you still celebrate holidays or practice your religion in some way? Have you ever considered converting to another religion? Etc. etc.


(See? I have other interests ;) ).

Sorry - didn't really answer original question.

Practising atheist, definitely - intent on bursting religion's bubble wherever possible.

However...I do 'celebrate' xmas, and join in the family 'fun' at Easter, etc. Hypocrite? Well, i definitely feel it, and I struggled for a long time about this, but eventually compromised/capitulated with my other half/rest of my family on this.

i decided that, as with my politics (left-of-centre, well left of most things really!), I cannot live in a bubble and ignor what is going on around me. I still have...err...debates on these issues (+ have the scars to prove it), but one sometimes has to 'park' ones strong views for the betterment of a civil + happy family home.

Oh, how trite that sounds...

[drunken goldfish]

Yes, you're right, but I'd love to see some gender-neutral language in religion talk! Wouldn't that be fun? :eek: The world would stop turning I guess...

Hi Goldie, missed ya!
I'm trying to cut back ;) . Hey, maybe we should have a feminism thread :)

Definitely, absolutely + categorically; like you referenced, we discussed it all previously...
Sorry to repeat, then, I'm new you see. I wonder though how you handle life being an atheist. I admit one of the reasons I believe is because the world is a scary place if you don't believe there's someone up there you could turn to. As I mentioned earlier, there's a saying along the lines of "in the trenches nobody's an atheist" :) .

[chica]

I'm trying to cut back ;) . Hey, maybe we should have a feminism thread :)
At your request, oh Goldfish.... *bows*
http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=63855
(I have to cut back too, I'm only 50 posts behind wolve! :eek: )

[Busy Clippers]

My religion scares people. Either that, or they think I'm joking.

I went to Catholic schools for 15 years. My family was pretty heavily involved in the church community, so my childhood was filled with carnivals, novenas, spaghetti dinners, casino nights, fundraising, and nuns. Lots of nuns. My parents were the ones in the rectory counting money and watching football with the priests, and we never experienced anything weird or untoward.

The masses were pretty bloodless, rote, and mechanical. I always liked it better when we overslept and had to attend the Spanish mass. Now that was excitement! But from a pretty early age I felt a tension between what my society said was the truth, and my own experience. It started with my first confession, 2nd grade. I had a hard time believing that anyone except God would be able to grant absolution. So I only went twice.

For years I went around thinking there was something deeply wrong with me, that I was evil, and that I'd be going to Hell. That's a pretty heavy burden for a kid. It all came to a head in college when I spent a few weird months in New Orleans, that most Catholic of U.S. cities, really struggling with matters of faith. The Jesuits were a help, but I knew I was on my own. And for awhile I had no religion. I'm not angry at God. I still talk to those guys sometimes - Jesus and the BVM. They're family, after all.

A couple of years later I was doing a paper about art and I stumbled across a book about Tibetan lamas (I take the long way around the library). Then, more books. I kept waiting to read or hear something that would hit a sour note, but it never happened. I couldn't be one of those pretentious western Buddhists, could I?? Yup, and it found me when I wasn't even looking. But I was in the closet for a long time because, well, all of the reasons people stay in closets. It works for me, it's my truth, so it's what I pursue. I don't bring it up much because it makes some people exquisitely uncomfortable, so I appreciate the chance to write about it here.

I don't think religion has to divide people.

[drunken goldfish]

My family was pretty heavily involved in the church community, so my childhood was filled with carnivals, novenas, spaghetti dinners, casino nights, fundraising, and nuns. Lots of nuns.
Is it bad that I read that and thought "sounds like fun"? :)
I always liked it better when we overslept and had to attend the Spanish mass. Now that was excitement!
What do they do? BTW, I've always secretly wanted to take communion, it seems so... mystical. I bet it doesn't feel that way, though :) .


For years I went around thinking there was something deeply wrong with me, that I was evil, and that I'd be going to Hell. That's a pretty heavy burden for a kid.
That sucks. Moz said something to this effect, I believe.

I kept waiting to read or hear something that would hit a sour note, but it never happened.
Wow, that's great. I learned a little about Eastern thought in uni and I was also surprised I liked it - I hate liking things that get "hyped" :) .

[WhyteGrrrl]

My religion scares people. Either that, or they think I'm joking.

I went to Catholic schools for 15 years. My family was pretty heavily involved in the church community, so my childhood was filled with carnivals, novenas, spaghetti dinners, casino nights, fundraising, and nuns. Lots of nuns. My parents were the ones in the rectory counting money and watching football with the priests, and we never experienced anything weird or untoward.

The masses were pretty bloodless, rote, and mechanical. I always liked it better when we overslept and had to attend the Spanish mass. Now that was excitement! But from a pretty early age I felt a tension between what my society said was the truth, and my own experience. It started with my first confession, 2nd grade. I had a hard time believing that anyone except God would be able to grant absolution. So I only went twice.

For years I went around thinking there was something deeply wrong with me, that I was evil, and that I'd be going to Hell. That's a pretty heavy burden for a kid. It all came to a head in college when I spent a few weird months in New Orleans, that most Catholic of U.S. cities, really struggling with matters of faith. The Jesuits were a help, but I knew I was on my own. And for awhile I had no religion. I'm not angry at God. I still talk to those guys sometimes - Jesus and the BVM. They're family, after all.

A couple of years later I was doing a paper about art and I stumbled across a book about Tibetan lamas (I take the long way around the library). Then, more books. I kept waiting to read or hear something that would hit a sour note, but it never happened. I couldn't be one of those pretentious western Buddhists, could I?? Yup, and it found me when I wasn't even looking. But I was in the closet for a long time because, well, all of the reasons people stay in closets. It works for me, it's my truth, so it's what I pursue. I don't bring it up much because it makes some people exquisitely uncomfortable, so I appreciate the chance to write about it here.

I don't think religion has to divide people.

That was wonderful to read. Even protestant, i grew up thinking I was 'destined for hell' and would ask my parents questions that they could not and would not answer. So, I decided to dig deeper into the religion of my ancestors.. the ancient Celts. I have also read very much on the religion of many other ancient cultures and find polytheism to be the religion for me. Interestingly enough, though I love the Celts gods and goddesses, it is the Buddhist goddess Kuan Yin that speaks to me most! I think people will always be in search of that 'something' to believe in. I guess not so much athiests though!

[Busy Clippers]

Is it bad that I read that and thought "sounds like fun"? :)

It was totally fun!! That's why it was so traumatic not to fit in!!

What do they do? BTW, I've always secretly wanted to take communion, it seems so... mystical. I bet it doesn't feel that way, though :) .
Spanish mass was celebratory - guitars, flowers, joy.

That sucks. Moz said something to this effect, I believe.
thanks!

Wow, that's great. I learned a little about Eastern thought in uni and I was also surprised I liked it - I hate liking things that get "hyped" :)

me too, trendy is failure, eh?.

thanks!

[Busy Clippers]

That was wonderful to read. Even protestant, i grew up thinking I was 'destined for hell' and would ask my parents questions that they could not and would not answer. So, I decided to dig deeper into the religion of my ancestors.. the ancient Celts. I have also read very much on the religion of many other ancient cultures and find polytheism to be the religion for me. Interestingly enough, though I love the Celts gods and goddesses, it is the Buddhist goddess Kuan Yin that speaks to me most! I think people will always be in search of that 'something' to believe in. I guess not so much athiests though!


Thanks, Whytegrrrl. I'm a Celt too, so I appreciate that tradition. It's in the blood, huh?

Yes, Kuan Yin is wonderful. My own personal favorite is the Medicine Buddha, but then I've always been partial to blue:

http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/medicine-buddha.jpg

[WhyteGrrrl]

Thanks, Whytegrrrl. I'm a Celt too, so I appreciate that tradition. It's in the blood, huh?

Yes, Kuan Yin is wonderful. My own personal favorite is the Medicine Buddha, but then I've always been partial to blue:

http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/medicine-buddha.jpg

I really do believe it's in the blood. I adore the brilliant far eastern artwork dipicting the gods and goddesses..as well as the knotwork of our beloved celts. as strange as it may sound, a lotus blossom with knotwork around it would be a perfect image!

[Dave]

(I take the long way around the library)

You've summed up my approach in eight words. Thanks:)

[the more you explore me!]

Well, I was flippant at the start of this post. Now thinking about it, I’ve never had any real religion in my life, never taken to church by my parents, only saw a church at weddings! No god fearing at home, sort of believed in god, never told what and who to follow and believe in a ‘god’ by family, was this wrong!!!!.
Never read the bible, which religion is true! They all have a tendency to focus on the end of the world, the spirit, or the next life, people want to know, want to be safe in their knowledge that they will go to a place called heaven.
Religious studies at school, I always enjoyed classical studies as it was about Greek gods, but I just liked the stories, didn’t show me any guidance, and didn’t believe in them.
My moral stand on things in life comes from my own judgement, of course that comes from societies 'kind of' unconscious rules, that all of us have which were born out of religion and make it's way in the laws that control people.
My morals come from my family, I was taught right from wrong, wasn't told I would go to hell if I didn’t, but told how to treat people with respect (which I do) which breeds in my everyday life of working hard, being kind to other people, showing manners, have respect for people’s feelings. Even in a relationship i beleive in loyalty and faithfulness to that person, I have grown into these views and believe in them with out reading a book.
I work with Christains; muslins and I know a ‘white witch’ at work. One day the Muslim chap I worked with was on the telephone to his wife, telling her that ‘don't worry about insurance on the home Allah will protect us’! So religion there, offers that person protection from burglaries! How sweet does it work, praying at bed at night, not to have your house broken into, or burning something for a particular god who can protect your home? I guess people need this belief... but I don't!
I was reading about this, well not much as it would taken weeks, the subject is vast and I think you tell I’m pretty ignorant about but its my view that I have taken in from my day to day life. Others things I was thinking was:
Why is it that religion breed’s racism (KKK)?
Why Terrorist atrocities such as 9/11 and the 2005 London bombings happen because these people were told they would be rewarded in heaven for killing infidels (which is me)?
I read this and thought well.... it is Voltaire’s famous quotation, "Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities".
Then I read this... Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. Karl Marx. (Well yeah but does/did communism work)
I’m not well read on this area, well not at all!
People need religion as guidance, which people do need, they need to be told right from wrong, and told of a punishment, be it if break the man's law you go to jail, if you break god's law you go to hell, I don't think it is a bad thing, but like every thing in life it is corrupted. It would also seem that some people on this thread have been told one religion but then found something else, which suits them more. It simple guidance for every day life and it's difficulties. Choosing a belief instead of forced belief; may be if the belief wasn't 'forced’ in the way it was then they wouldn't moved on to something else! I don't know as it hasn't happen to me and I haven't needed to look for something to show me the way.
I read this quote: Freud views the idea of God as being a version of the father image. My father died when I was young may be I don't need a father figure in my life as I have spent nearly my whole life without one(wow).
I do I believe in god, well there is so many to choose from! Which dogma from 1000 of years ago should I look for which suits me.... emmm lets think! Which gang should I be in....?

1. Christianity 2.1 billion
2. Islam 1.3 billion
3. Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist 1.1 billion
4. Hinduism 900 million
5. Buddhism 708 million (see also Buddhism by country)
6. Chinese folk religion 394 million
7. Primal indigenous ("Pagan") 300 million
8. African traditional and diasporic 100 million
9. Sikhism 23 million
10. Juche 19 million
11. Spiritism 15 million
12. Judaism 14 million
13. Bahá'í Faith 7 million
14. Jainism 4.2 million
15. Shinto 4 million
16. Cao Dai 4 million
17. Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
18. Tenrikyo 2 million
19. Neo-Paganism 1 million
20. Unitarian Universalism 800,000
21. Rastafari movement 600,000

I believe in something we are here, in a fleshy body what happens after... well I’ll have to wait and see and I hope it's fun!


hugs....

:)

[half a person]

I definitly don't believe in God, however, I do celebrate christmas (though not easter) simply because my dad's side of the family are catholic and it's a great family holiday! Personally, I think us secular humanist should get a few holidays!

[half a person]

[QUOTE=jeane;376522]I think from memory and my limited viewing of the boards here, Wild Oscar and I are the only atheists here (that's not a judgement...before anyone starts to imbibe it with malice or meaning). QUOTE]

Hello! Yay! Another atheist on board! (exuse the 'board' pun)

[GOD]

Hello

[the more you explore me!]

Hello

hi, so how is it going, would like to sit down, have cup of tea. so GOD...
are you a man or a women, is there life on mars, or are you eric clapton.

[GOD]

hi, so how is it going, would like to sit down, have cup of tea. so GOD...
are you a man or a women, is there life on mars, or are you eric clapton.

the more you expore me! hello, I do quite like tea :) so nice for you to offer.
I am neither man nor woman, I never was a human you see, I am just the creater of both.

I am very powerfull :mad:

But I am quite nice if you get on my good side;)

I am a moz fan too.

[hatfull]

I've never met a Wiccan, it sounds really interesting, could you tell us more? And does your family mind?

Yeah, it's a type of Pagan. I have 8 fesivals a year that mark the changing in the seasons, and I try to pay attention to my surroundings and appreciate my life as it is, but look at what I have done since my last sabbat to improve myself and to give thanks for the good things I have recieved in my life.
I do do spells and rituals as well, but they are only a part of what I do.
My family are cool about it. I still have Christmas with them, I just also have Yule a couple of days before with my friends.
Hope that helps!

[the more you explore me!]

the more you expore me! hello, I do quite like tea :) so nice for you to offer.
I am neither man nor woman, I never was a human you see, I am just the creater of both.

I am very powerfull :mad:

But I am quite nice if you get on my good side;)

I am a moz fan too.

ok that is nice to know. well i'll make a brew then, and put on your arsenal for our listening pleasure.
well i try and get on everyones good side.
so how is Elvis then!

[chica]

Well, I stand corrected; that makes three!
Er, two and a half :p

[drunken goldfish]

I do do spells and rituals as well, but they are only a part of what I do.


Love spelles too? ;)


Personally I feel it is scarier to believe in a religion or deity you question. Especially the major three who threaten with hell.
Actually, Judaism isn't about the afterlife at all, in fact a lot of Jewish groups don't even believe in Heaven and Hell. Don't know much about Islam so I can't comment.

I am terrified of those people whose only reasoning is "well, the bible says so" or "if i commit a certain act i am going to hell, therefore i won't do it". .
Oh, I'm totally with you on this one, too many people are like this unfortunately.

And if it is comfort in turning to something you're after, well, you could find that in a lucky horseshoe, or aliens coming to get you in the tail of a comet...
I hope you never find yourself in such a situation, but there have been times in my life when divine help was all I could hope for. But I have a feeling your comment was tongue in cheek anyway :) .

[bikubesong]

I talked to God yesterday. I promised him a lot of things, though they're forgotten today:p

[the more you explore me!]

I talked to God yesterday. I promised him a lot of things, though they're forgotten today:p

he was here yesterday bikubesong but he didn't answer my question about elvis, maybe he got mad at my post on the last page!

[bikubesong]

he was here yesterday bikubesong but he didn't answer my question about elvis, maybe he got mad at my post on the last page!
Here? At Morrissey-solo? Too bad I missed that:p

[the more you explore me!]

Here? At Morrissey-solo? Too bad I missed that:p

a bit disappointed about not knowing how presley is doing now! so disappointed that i've become a Viking in a long ship and sacrifice a small animal (i couldn't catch a large one) to Odin or thor, well that's the two i can name.

[bikubesong]

Oh, how sweet:) My cat is called Odin. Don't you dare sacrifice him.

[the more you explore me!]

Oh, how sweet:) My cat is called Odin. Don't you dare sacrifice him.

not to worry. i'm not doing that again. ruined the carpet and fun that what i wanted the gods to grant me... well it didn't happen

:rolleyes:

hey lets worship a cat god if there is one!

[drunken goldfish]

^^They had those in Egypt, I think :) .

[the more you explore me!]

^^They had those in Egypt, I think :) .

Oooh i like the sound of this i like egyptian art!

[The Seeker of Good Songs]

I've Anchored in Jesus

Upon life’s boundless ocean where mighty billows roll,
I’ve fixed my hope in Jesus, blest anchor of my soul;
When trials fierce assail me as storms are gathering o’er,
I rest upon His mercy and trust Him more.

I’ve anchored in Jesus, the storms of life I’ll brave,
I’ve anchored in Jesus, I fear no wind or wave.
I’ve anchored in Jesus, for He hath power to save,
I’ve anchored to the Rock of Ages.

He keeps my soul from evil and gives me blessèd peace,
His voice hath stilled the waters and bid their tumult cease;
My Pilot and Deliverer, to Him I all confide,
For always when I need Him, He’s at my side.

I’ve anchored in Jesus, the storms of life I’ll brave,
I’ve anchored in Jesus, I fear no wind or wave.
I’ve anchored in Jesus, for He hath power to save,
I’ve anchored to the Rock of Ages.

He is my Friend and Savior, in Him my anchor’s cast,
He drives away my sorrows and shields me from the blast;
By faith I’m looking upward beyond life’s troubled sea,
There I behold a haven prepared for me.

I’ve anchored in Jesus, the storms of life I’ll brave,
I’ve anchored in Jesus, I fear no wind or wave.
I’ve anchored in Jesus, for He hath power to save,
I’ve anchored to the Rock of Ages.

by Lewis Edgar Jones 1865-1936

[JeanneDarc]

I'm a catheist. Been baptised and communioned, but haven't entered a church in 10 years for more than 30 minutes,.But when I'm in Italy I do. And feel alive, I can tell you that much. The beauty and the glam, it's all there to be seen and it grabs you. And when I left Florence I must admit: I felt happy. And not alone because of the city's beauty. Religion (cath.) still hasn't lost it's magic. Or glitter -for that matter.

[drunken goldfish]

I'm a catheist.
When I read that I thought: hey, I've never heard of that before. :)

The beauty and the glam, it's all there to be seen and it grabs you.
Oh, I know what you mean. I'm always in awe when I'm in a church, even though I'm not Christian - how could you not be? I was once in a church when they played the organ and it was just the most powerful thing.

What about gehenna? Although, sure, not the same as a Christian bonfire beach party that just never ends but still a place for sinners to atone for their sins?

Sure there's an idea of hell, but it's totally not the focus (at least not as far as I know - I'm not religious). It's not: do this and this or you'll go to Hell, it's more like: do this and this, it's what God says in the Torah! I'm sure a religious person would give a better explanation.
About the praying, of course there's no point if you don't believe, I just meant it must be hard psychologically in those times when there's nothing to do but pray. I totally respect your choices :) .

[Chartres]

What about gehenna? Although, sure, not the same as a Christian bonfire beach party that just never ends but still a place for sinners to atone for their sins?


Plus an old scrap yard in Jerusalem:D.

I am lutheran protestant but coinsider myself as an atheist as I have no doubt that there's no such thing as a God or a life after death. is neither baptised nor communioed and would very much like to see the end of all religions. Have a personal matter against them.

[drunken goldfish]

Plus an old scrap yard in Jerusalem:D..

I don't get it! :(

is neither baptised nor communioed and would very much like to see the end of all religions. Have a personal matter against them.

Really, why? I would imagine that religious institutions don't have a lot of control in Sweden, it seems like a pretty secular country to me.

[Chartres]

I don't get it! :(


Really, why? I would imagine that religious institutions don't have a lot of control in Sweden, it seems like a pretty secular country to me.

Gehenna wa originaly an old scrap yard in Jerusalem that became so notorious that it served as an imginary picture of hell, i.e. the name Gehenna.

It's a far too personal matter. Yes, religious institutions have barely no power at all in most cases, luckily. Our Christian party is one of the smallest in the perliament, unlike most european nations.

[WhyteGrrrl]

not to worry. i'm not doing that again. ruined the carpet and fun that what i wanted the gods to grant me... well it didn't happen

:rolleyes:

hey lets worship a cat god if there is one!

Bast is the cat Goddess from ancient Egypt, also see: http://heru-ra-ha.tripod.com/library/catdeities.html for others.

[drunken goldfish]

Gehenna wa originaly an old scrap yard in Jerusalem that became so notorious that it served as an imginary picture of hell, i.e. the name Gehenna.
Oh, I know what you mean now *smacks head*.
Yes, religious institutions have barely no power at all in most cases, luckily. Our Christian party is one of the smallest in the perliament, unlike most european nations.
Your area of the world is also relatively feminist, right? Hmm...coincidence?

[Chartres]

Oh, I know what you mean now *smacks head*.

Your area of the world is also relatively feminist, right? Hmm...coincidence?

Hehe, maybe so mate.

[the more you explore me!]

Dogma. (screenplay/directed by Kevin smith)


OC VOICE

I don't understand - how can you base your lack

of belief in God on the writings Lewis Caroll?

INT. AIRPORT - DAY

LOKI walks beside a NUN in a semi-busy terminal. They pass through the metal detectors. The Nun carries a donation can.

LOKI

Leaving 'Alice in Wonderland' aside, look closely

at 'Through the Looking Glass' - particularly 'The

Walrus and the Carpenter' poem: what's the

metaphorical meaning?

*NUN

I wasn't aware there was one.

*LOKI

Oh, but there is - it colorfully details the sham

that is organized religion. The Walrus - with his

girth and good-nature - obviously refers to either

the Buddha, or - with his tusks - the lovable

Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. This takes care

of the Eastern religions. The Carpenter is an

Obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was

purportedly raised the son of a carpenter. He

represents the Western religions. And in the poem,

what do they do? They dupe all the oysters into

following them. Then, when the oysters collective

guard is down, the Walrus and the Carpenter shuck

and devour the helpless creatures, en masse. I

don't know what that says to you, but to me it

says that following faiths based on these

mythological figures insures the destruction of

one's inner-being.

*

BARTLEBY sits amongst a row of seats by one of the arrival gates. He eats popcorn and stares at...

A steady stream of TRAVELERS, exiting the gate, meeting loved ones, family.

*

OC LOKI

Organized religion destroys who we are or who we

can be by inhibiting our actions and decisions out

of fear of an intangible parent-figure who shakes

a finger at us from thousands of years ago and

says "No, no!"

*Bartleby smiles at the meet-and-greets, warmed. Loki saddles up beside him, kneeling on one of the seats, facing the Nun.

*LOKI

'Through the Looking Glass' - a children's tale?

I think not.

NUN

(really dazed)

I've... I've never really thought about it like

that...

(beat; shocked; off her cassock)

What have I been doing with my life...?

*

LOKI

Don't look back. Just get out there and taste

life.

(off donation can)

Leave this for the unenlightened. Poverty is for

the gullible - it's another way the church is

trying to control you. You take that money you've

been collecting for your parish reconstruction and

go get yourself a nice piece of ass. You deserve

it.

*

The Nun nods at him, and saunters off, obviously grappling with something. A passerby tries to stick money in her can, but she yanks it away. Loki faces the proper direction in his seat and plops down beside the still-transfixed Bartleby.

*

BARTLEBY

(looking OC)

Here's what I don't get about you: you know for a

fact that there is a God. You've been in his

presence, he's talked to you personally. And yet I

just heard you claim to be an atheist.

*

LOKI

C'mon man - you know I don't believe any of that

shit I was telling her. I just like to fuck with

the clergy; keep 'em on their toes. When her head

stops spinning, she'll be facing the way of the

Just again. But oh. will she have a bunch to

confess.

(looks around)

Now here's what I don't get about you: why do you

feel the need to come here all the time?

*

BARTLEBY

(off travelers)

I like to watch. This is humanity at it's best.

Look at them.....

just watch the film! you may love it or hate it!

[the more you explore me!]

Bast is the cat Goddess from ancient Egypt, also see: http://heru-ra-ha.tripod.com/library/catdeities.html for others.


http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k238/morrisseysolo/bast.jpg

[starry night]

Hey,

I was brought up in a strict style household w/ beliefs in the Roman Catholic faith. Yes, I am still a practicing Roman Catholic yet, I became a born-again Christian in July 1986. Since then, I will admit honestly, I have felt I've struggled w/ my faith and beliefs. You see, since I'm a Catholic/Christian, I'm told to have faith in God for everything in my life. I've struggled w/ this b/c of the fact that ever since my engagement ended tragically in 1998, I have yet to be loved. My faith at times is in question yet, I know what I believe in. I firmly believe in my heart that if it is God's plan for it to happen, it will. If not, it's not meant to be and God had a plan for everyone.

I must admit that recently in church (I belong and practice in a Roman Catholic one), we've had information posted in our bulletin regarding what traditions may be followed accordingly in a wedding and funeral ceremony. Plus, there's been discussions on homosexuality and how we as Catholics should treat people who are homosexual. Well, I am going to say this outright. I've told this to my family and friends and they all know I'm very, very stubborn yet, strong in my values, beliefs and convictions.

I do not agree w/ some of those ideals posted....

I am also a very strong believer in Jesus Christ and what He did for all of us on this Earth. I feel and know in my heart what He did. I feel like every Good Friday I feel His pain and suffering w/ the persecution and death. I also feel persecution all of the time just struggling to be a Catholic and do the "right, morally ethical thing".

All Jesus wanted us to do is obey the highest commandment of them all, "Love one another as I have loved you." We are all created in his image and He loves us so much I think that is something easily to follow.

Furthermore, I have told all of my family and friends I don't think it's right at all for the church to sometimes dictate to us in regards to how we should do things (like at those weddings and funerals) and how we should treat others. It's hypocritcal to say against things yet, why does Jesus only want us to follow and obey his greatest commandment? I have questioned that issue for a while yet, I've resigned to this fact....I will say it. I am a practising Roman Catholic yes, but also, I follow Jesus' teachings even further. I don't care where you're from, what background/lifestyle you have or whom you'll become. I know that the RC church would totally disagree w/ me but, I'm just respecting Jesus and his greatest teaching. I know what I feel on how to treat everyone in my heart and I often think of the saying "WWJD" in regards to kindness, love and respect towards others. I have a set of male neighbors that live down the hall from me that are homosexual yet, they are very kind and caring individuals towards me and my friend, Pete. They often stop over w/ goodies or movies and we have a blast. I respect them and their life as they respect me. They think it's sometimes funny however, that I'm very strong in my Catholic religion yet, I'm friends w/ them...That's where I tell them that I am only following what Jesus wants us to do and I love Jesus so, I respect Him. I just feel we should all treat others w/ the upmost dignity, respect and care. We are all on this planet together, just trying to make it and Jesus' greatest teaching should be easy to follow......

Finally, I just try to treat others as I would want to be treated. As in regards too, to the issue of me ever being married and loved, I still have firm faith and belief it will happen. Just sometimes, they're bad days. We all have them. That's where our faith though comes in to hopefully make us more stronger...

Blessed be...

[drunken goldfish]

Very interesting read, starry night, thaknks for sharing! I also disagree with some of my religion's teachings, especially regarding women and gays, but I don't belong to any congregation, just believe privately, so nobody cares :) .

[starry night]

Very interesting read, starry night, thaknks for sharing! I also disagree with some of my religion's teachings, especially regarding women and gays, but I don't belong to any congregation, just believe privately, so nobody cares :) .

Hey DG,
Thanks. They are just my beliefs from the heart...

"Loving words, Change worlds"....
"Let me show you the world in my eyes"--DM

[dazzak]

I'm a catheist.
When I read that I thought: hey, I've never heard of that before. :)
Ahem... (http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showpost.php?p=343637&postcount=33)

[drunken goldfish]

^^Allright, we'll make a little copyright sign everytime we use it ;) . The points you made in that post are the ones I've been asking all the atheists here about -they didn't agree though.

[chica]

Atheism is a religion. Why else would there be atheist fundamentalists. Atheists can have very strong atheist beliefs.

edit: FAO DeliciousDemon, how many times did I say "atheist" in this post? ;)

[chica]

It doesn't explain much, actually. It describes atheism as something I believe is called agnosticism. I can try to accept that "believing that God doesn't exist/ not believing that God exists" difference, but I don't feel I would be completely convinced.

[chica]

Really they are binary positions. Just think of a theist as 1 and an atheist as 0.
Etymologically, yes. But etymology can't explain everything. There are too many layers of meaning that words get over the time.

Anyway, here's something from the Oxford Dictionary:

"AGNOSTIC - a person who is not sure whether or not God exists or who believes that we cannot know whether God exists or not (compare ATHEIST)

ATHEIST - a person who believes that God does not exist (compare AGNOSTIC)"

Maybe it's a cultural difference after all. E.g. "liberal" here means something American liberals would probably detest :eek:

[Inttenssity]

Very interesting read, starry night, thaknks for sharing! I also disagree with some of my religion's teachings, especially regarding women and gays, but I don't belong to any congregation, just believe privately, so nobody cares :) .

I care.

[chica]

I care.
:p
You're such a riot, Inttenssity, too bad you're a pessimist!

[drunken goldfish]

I care.

:D Touche. I'm touched you follow my posts! :p


All i can say is that as a weak atheist I reject the definition as found in the Oxford Dictionary. A strong atheist on the other hand would agree on that definition. so i suppose the definition should be refined to denote a strong atheist.
Now that's interesting. How could you have different degrees of not believing?

[Theo]

I don't believe in God.

I'm fine with any holidays that involve receiving presents.

I'm tired of the whole world being fucked up because of dopey religions, especially the dopiest religion of them all - Islam.

BTW, Richard Dawkins has a new book out that he hopes religious people will read and become atheists by the time they put it down. In a recent interview he says there are numerous studies showing people of religious faith are more likely to be uneducated dummies (http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/10/13/dawkins/). I haven't looked at the studies myself and I'm not necessarily endorsing that view, but it's apparently what the research suggests!


SALON: It's interesting that you link those two words -- intelligent and atheistic. Are you saying the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to be an atheist?

DAWKINS: There's a fair bit of evidence in favor of that equation, yes.

SALON: That sounds like an elitist argument. Do you want to cite that evidence?

DAWKINS: It's certainly elitist. What's wrong with being elitist, if you are trying to encourage people to join the elite rather than being exclusive? I'm very, very keen that people should raise their game rather than the other way around. As for citing the evidence, a number of studies have been done. The one meta-analysis of this that I know of was published in Mensa Magazine. It looked at 43 studies on the relationship between educational level or IQ and religion. And in 39 out of 43 -- that's all but four -- there is a correlation between IQ/education and atheism. The more educated you are, the more likely you are to be an atheist. Or the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to be an atheist.

[drunken goldfish]

I'm tired of the whole world being fucked up because of dopey religions, especially the dopiest religion of them all - Islam.
Sorry man, not gonna bite (and I hope nobody else does).


In a recent interview he says there are numerous studies showing people of religious faith are more likely to be uneducated dummies. I haven't looked at the studies myself and I'm not necessarily endorsing that view, but it's apparently what the research suggests!
That's hardly news, at least in my experience (well, not the dummies part, but the uneducated part). Doesn't change my position though.

[chica]

That's hardly news, at least in my experience (well, not the dummies part, but the uneducated part). Doesn't change my position though.
Oh... :D

[drunken goldfish]

What? I didn't mean me! :D

[chica]

Right... :rolleyes:

[drunken goldfish]

Stop hijacking! :rolleyes:

[chica]

Not my fault, Fishy, you know my reaction to the word "uneducated"... and when you say it...

[drunken goldfish]

Well, I'm uneducated in the world of Morrissey, I'll give you that.

[lilybett]

Do you believe in God?

Nah

If you don't, do you still celebrate holidays or practice your religion in some way?

Well. I celebrate Xmas. In that I enjoy buying/getting pressies and such a good excuse to drink to excess. I'm afraid Jesus never crosses my mind.

Have you ever considered converting to another religion? Etc. etc.

Nah. I'm happy as a committed atheist. ;)

There are many reasons I dislike religion so intensely. My Catholic education is a big one. :)

[drunken goldfish]

Well. I celebrate Xmas. In that I enjoy buying/getting pressies and such a good excuse to drink to excess. I'm afraid Jesus never crosses my mind.

:D


Nah. I'm happy as a committed atheist. ;)
There are many reasons I dislike religion so intensely. My Catholic education is a big one. :)

I wonder if Catholicism somehow drives people to atheism? :) Kinda seems like it from this thread. The question "what religion do most atheists come from originally" is an interesting one. Though I imagine all sorts of things might skew it, like communism oppressing religion for so long.

[lilybett]

:D



I wonder if Catholicism somehow drives people to atheism? :) Kinda seems like it from this thread. The question "what religion do most atheists come from originally" is an interesting one. Though I imagine all sorts of things might skew it, like communism oppressing religion for so long.

Maybe. People from Catholic backgrounds always seem to be really affected by it, all their lives.

But erm actually my family is Northern Irish and protestant. :D I just went to a Catholic school cos it was closest :rolleyes:

[Theo]

Sorry man, not gonna bite (and I hope nobody else does).


That's hardly news, at least in my experience (well, not the dummies part, but the uneducated part). Doesn't change my position though.


I didn't realize I was asking you to "bite" anything. I didn't realize I was posting a message to you at all. I thought I was just putting my 2 cents down, just like the Wiccan goofballs or those racially-oriented posters who said some celtic jive is "in their blood." If I wanted to start something I'd have picked on what other people said instead of just submitting my own view to no one in particular.

Oh, but I see you've submitted well over 500 posts in less than a month, so apparently you're under the impression that every message IS to you?

When someone says religion the first thing I think of are the barbaric, daily atrocities going on across the world in the name of religion. I guess the rampant evil religion has to answer for is not supposed to be mentioned in friendly "Religion Thread." My bad. Can I mention it after Iran's mullahs nuke millions of people?

[Wild Oscar]

It's not really about degrees of disbelief but more of a sub-section within atheism where a weak atheist might say "I do not believe in God. I can't see any proof for doing so (which is not to say that i know for sure)" and a strong atheist might say "I do not believe in God. I believe there is no God. I know this for certain".

I would hazard a guess and say the majority of atheists are weak atheists. If you are interested there is a comprehensive explanation here.

7ncCNwbb5Jc

It's a shame - despite my 'strength' as an atheist - that i couldn't listen to this right now, as I'm at work. I hope though, that it manages to convince a few more people to the position of jeane and myself in the way that the previous thread on this topic may not have (although, jeane, i think that there were more than just you + I that felt the same way on this.

[drunken goldfish]

I didn't realize I was asking you to "bite" anything. I didn't realize I was posting a message to you at all. I thought I was just putting my 2 cents down, just like the Wiccan goofballs or those racially-oriented posters who said some celtic jive is "in their blood." If I wanted to start something I'd have picked on what other people said instead of just submitting my own view to no one in particular.

Oh, but I see you've submitted well over 500 posts in less than a month, so apparently you're under the impression that every message IS to you?

When someone says religion the first thing I think of are the barbaric, daily atrocities going on across the world in the name of religion. I guess the rampant evil religion has to answer for is not supposed to be mentioned in friendly "Religion Thread." My bad. Can I mention it after Iran's mullahs nuke millions of people?

I said I'm not gonna bite, and I hope nobody else will - as in, all the others you were posting to. What you posted was clearly a provocative statement meant to start something (I've seen your other posts so I know this is one of the subjects you like to argue about) and more importantly, unrelated to the thread. Everybody except you shared their feelings towards God in general and their religion in particular. This is not a political thread, but a personal one. Finally, as an Israeli, you really don't need to lecture me on the dangers of Islam.

Edit for jeane Just saw the video. Nice guy, he'd make a good teacher (probably is). Rest assured I don't think badly of atheists, like he implies in the video. In fact, most of my family and friends are atheists ("some of my best friends" :p). I hardly ever talk to any of them about it though, so it's nice to be able discuss this sort of thing on the board.

[Wild Oscar]

Oh not trying to convert, merely to educate on the position.

I'm happy to see that i was clearly very wrong in my inital post. Theo didn't come to mind, but he has been stating his views on religion for many years now.

don't take this the wrong way, but i worry about trying to educate, as it can be seen as being aloof, or having the greater knowledge could be seen as, if you like, a bit smug. although I'm sure that you're not, of course.

I'd often much rather just get 'down + dirty', get stuck into it, so we know where everyone stands - which is probably why my comments on the last thread on this topic (by Seeker of Good Songs) upset a few people. Hence my signature now...

[Wild Oscar]

I understand what you are saying and perhaps 'educate' does imply a greater knowledge. Maybe a better choice of words would be "to clear up any misconceptions while having a conversation and responding to a question."

Then again, in this area, I perhaps do have greater knowledge than drunken goldfish. That's not to say in every other area of life she couldn't teach me a thing or two. And I am without doubt that she has greater knowledge in Judaism as Hatfull has in Paganism. I don't perceive asking questions to be a lesser pursuit, after all, without asking questions, we'd still be thanking Thor for the thunder. You're right though, being smug is the last thing on my mind and I apologise to anyone if I was perceived in that manner.

Getting down to it is fine in the appropriate forum. If this was a religious forum, then my discussion would be very different. But as drunken goldfish started this thread to know if atheists celebrate christmas, i don't feel comfortable questioning the basis for her beliefs. And I'm not sure she would appreciate it either. That's not to stop you from doing it if you wish....:cool:



I don't know if he teaches but I do know that he used to be a hardcore mormon, knocking on doors. Yeah, I can see that you're not anti-atheist; I don't think anyone is on this board, but in the atheist community, they get a lot of flack, particularly in the US. (see that artcle about them being the most mistrusted minority) I think for most of them it's a sore point, understandably as they encounter it on a daily basis... The whole "You-have-no-morals, devil-worshipper, you're-going-to-hell, i'll-pray-for-you", I imagine gets a bit tiresome.

I like you - you talk a lot of sense!

[drunken goldfish]

^^Second that! :) (We really are too warm and fuzzy around here, aren't we? It must be stopped :p ).

[chica]

Yeah, bring some fundamentalism before I stop reading this thread! :mad:

[Chartres]

Yeah, bring some fundamentalism before I stop reading this thread! :mad:

Forbid all religions for the sake of democracy, atheism as world state-religion!

:)

[Zenith Nadir]

There is a youtube video where Derren Brown pretends to be from a church and converts a bunch of atheists. Scary mind control.

[Chartres]

Seriously, my idea would be quite good I belive.

[chica]

But atheists would object! See previous posts about atheism (not) being a religion ;)

[Chartres]

But atheists would object! See previous posts about atheism (not) being a religion ;)

Yes of course but I just didn't know any other word to use then "state-religion".:o .

[chica]

When I think about it... It really is quite good, it's fundamentalist enough to stir up discussion!

[Chartres]

When I think about it... It really is quite good, it's fundamentalist enough to stir up discussion!

Yeah I know, that was the plan (;) ), that it in many way is my serious opinion may even help.

[Wild Oscar]

Forbid all religions for the sake of democracy, atheism as world state-religion!

:)

One way to start would be to dis-establish schools from the church of england (or is it the other way round?).

It really cheeses me off that religion is taught in schools, assemblies are held, and now schools are also appointing Faith in Schools Co-ordinators to make sure that the job is being done right. It ticks me off!

Even though many schools now have the 'opt-in' option (*), it still diverts time and resources from school staff towards something that i don't think should be even there in the 1st place.

(* = whereby parents have to express a written desire if they want their child to take part in an assembly; rather than finding enough space and enough staff to manage a daily assembly for all, even though 98% of parents may not be bothered about their children having it.)

Yes, atheism should be the auto-default position in modern societies.

[Chartres]

Yes, atheism should be the auto-default position in modern societies.

I agree with you completely!

[no one in particular]

My bad.

Would someone please be so kind as to explain the origins of this phrase to me? I find it fascinating.


JORO, I hope you seriously wanted an answer...so here goes.

I understand this expression to come from U.S. university campus perhaps late 1980's (?), in which it is a shortening of what one might say as "That is my fault/mistake (that caused a bad thing)". So, to abbreviate and be more succinct, someone started saying "my bad" whenever s/he errored and some "bad" result happened.

[chica]

Yesterday we had a lecture held by a professor who has specialized in religion. So he told us that all major world religions are based on peace, love and tolerance. When I asked him how revenge fits in that description, he said that they don't endorse revenge at all. :rolleyes: How convincing. So, can anyone explain this to me? Eye for an eye, Sharia law... how come that's not revenge?

[drunken goldfish]

^^You had to strat this discussion when my boyfriend needs the computer? :rolleyes:
So he told us that all major world religions are based on peace, love and tolerance.
Is this guy really an expert on religion? Cause that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You mentioned revenge, but that's not even the half of it, since it's ethics between individuals. Religions really get intolerant when it comes to other religions. Also when it comes to gays, women - I could go on and on... How did he explain his claim anyway?

[chica]

Errr, he didn't :D

I guess I have nothing interesting to say, so yes, you can let your boyfriend use the computer now :)

[drunken goldfish]

:D Ok then. Watch out for my my space soon!

[chica]

Bump! :)


So, I've been wondering since yesterday... If it's verboten 'to kill' in Christianity, is there a reservation somewhere in the Bible, that says 'but it's cool in this and that situation'? Inquisition, death penalty... what's the excuse?

[Kuiper]

The Inquisition was pretty much killing Christians for practicing Christianity. I.E., being tortured by having a piece of metal slowly rammed down your throat if you said you only needed to follow what The Bible says to know how to get into Heaven.

[chica]

Yeah, I was wondering if it was written somewhere in the Bible when you can actually kill someone ;) Cuz I understand there is a liaison between death penalty and religious beliefs of politicians...

[!Viva Hate!]

Yeah, I was wondering if it was written somewhere in the Bible when you can actually kill someone ;) Cuz I understand there is a liaison between death penalty and religious beliefs of politicians...
And I understand that you're for killing babies in the womb...so are you saying you're better?

[chica]

And I understand that you're for killing babies in the womb...so are you saying you're better?

Darling, who was mean to you? You seem to be distressed! :eek:

[Kuiper]

It's littered throughout the Old Testament, chica. While the rules can change over time and per situation, God still never says "now don't kill anyone under any circumstances". Nothing wrong with self defense or justified wars or the death penalty in some situations. Just because a lot of Christian teachings are about managing to get through difficult times in your life and suffering doesn't mean suffering should always be freely allowed to happen, thus, for example, shooting someone who has taken hostages and is about to kill them off one by one is perfectly acceptable since that one death is sparing the others from death.

[!Viva Hate!]

Darling, who was mean to you? You seem to be distressed! :eek:
Kuiper called me gay...

[Kuiper]

Kuiper called me gay...

No, I jokingly called you a random name after you jokingly called me a nerd and then went on to explain that the actual cake "fruitcake" is not gay, it is disgusting and unedible, but not "gay".

[chica]

It's littered throughout the Old Testament, chica. While the rules can change over time and per situation, God still never says "now don't kill anyone under any circumstances". Nothing wrong with self defense or justified wars or the death penalty in some situations. Just because a lot of Christian teachings are about managing to get through difficult times in your life and suffering doesn't mean suffering should always be freely allowed to happen, thus, for example, shooting someone who has taken hostages and is about to kill them off one by one is perfectly acceptable since that one death is sparing the others from death.

Okay, I'll ask Fishy for more examples, she studies these things.

Kuiper called me gay...

But everyone does!

[!Viva Hate!]

No, I jokingly called you a random name after you jokingly called me a nerd and then went on to explain that the actual cake "fruitcake" is not gay, it is disgusting and unedible, but not "gay".
You knew what you were doing...

[!Viva Hate!]

Okay, I'll ask Fishy for more examples, she studies these things.



But everyone does!
Are you trying to piss me off more?

[Kuiper]

You knew what you were doing...

No I didn't...because I never meant to offend you. If you don't like people hinting that you like guys then don't make dirty jokes with people, sweetie, especially ones that involve homosexuality.

[chica]

Are you trying to piss me off more?
Nnnno :confused:

[!Viva Hate!]

No I didn't...because I never meant to offend you. If you don't like people hinting that you like guys then don't make dirty jokes with people, sweetie, especially ones that involve homosexuality.
We had this talk last night...I think you would know by now what to say and what NOT to say to me.

[!Viva Hate!]

Nnnno :confused:
Well, you're doing a pretty God damn good bang-up job of it.

[Kuiper]

We had this talk last night...I think you would know by now what to say and what NOT to say to me.

But then why do you keep saying how you are going to screw my mouth and that you are going to make me love being touched by you? That is much more "gay" than me calling you a fruitcake, and I call my friends that at random without implying they are actually gay, it's just a random name around here but with more specific origins.

[!Viva Hate!]

But then why do you keep saying how you are going to screw my mouth and that you are going to make me love being touched by you? That is much more "gay" than me calling you a fruitcake, and I call my friends that at random without implying they are actually gay, it's just a random name around here but with more specific origins.
That was David Caruso talking...not me.
http://members.aol.com/remiped/csim-caruso005.jpg

[chica]

Sorry Viva, I'm partly desentisized in the morning :o

[Kuiper]

That was David Caruso talking...not me.
http://members.aol.com/remiped/csim-caruso005.jpg

Are you...sure...it was him talking...or was it...you...talking? Yeah the molestation by Caruso thing was just "in character" or whatever you want to call it ;), but you still make very open and blunt jokes about homosexual activity. So when someone calls you a "fruitcake" after you talk about the homoerotic acts you will engage in them with, that isn't that surprising to be honest.

[!Viva Hate!]

Sorry Viva, I'm partly desentisized in the morning :o
Are you...desentisized...in...the morning...partly?
http://members.aol.com/remiped/csim-caruso005.jpg

[!Viva Hate!]

Are you...sure...it was him talking...or was it...you...talking? Yeah the molestation by Caruso thing was just "in character" or whatever you want to call it ;), but you still make very open and blunt jokes about homosexual activity. So when someone calls you a "fruitcake" after you talk about the homoerotic acts you will engage in them with, that isn't that surprising to be honest.
Nu uh! You a lie, boy! You a lie!
http://www.spires.org.uk/pix/photos/elegant_black_woman.jpg

[Kuiper]

Nu uh! You a lie, boy! You a lie!
http://www.spires.org.uk/pix/photos/elegant_black_woman.jpg

Well you ain't elegant, boy!

[!Viva Hate!]

Well you ain't elegant, boy!
You be one to talk, homeslice!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/Deedterb/crackhead.jpg

[Kuiper]

You be one to talk, homeslice!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/Deedterb/crackhead.jpg

Homeslice? :confused: :o

Well you a lie boy, homeslic ain't naught a word, boy!

[!Viva Hate!]

Homeslice? :confused: :o

Well you a lie boy, homeslic ain't naught a word, boy!
It bees a word, aight? You jiveass foos don no anything anyhow...turkey!
http://www.yourdailymedia.com/i/u/ixXknCbX.jpg

[Kuiper]

It bees a word, aight? You jiveass foos don no anything anyhow...turkey!
http://www.yourdailymedia.com/i/u/ixXknCbX.jpg

You a racist, boy!

[!Viva Hate!]

You a racist, boy!
.....

[!Viva Hate!]

You a racist, boy!
THIS is a racist...
http://www.paranoia.ru/mn/stories/faces/images/m.jpg

[Kuiper]

THIS is a racist...
http://www.paranoia.ru/mn/stories/faces/images/m.jpg

I think he's more crazy than racist. THIS is a racist:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Farrakhan.jpg
And let's stop pretending, so is she:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Cynthia_McKinney_Congressional_photo.jpg

[!Viva Hate!]

You forgot...
http://www.nndb.com/people/365/000024293/ph_revjjacksonjr.jpg

AND

http://www.nndb.com/people/281/000025206/sharpton.jpg

[Kuiper]

You forgot...
http://www.nndb.com/people/365/000024293/ph_revjjacksonjr.jpg

AND

http://www.nndb.com/people/281/000025206/sharpton.jpg

Yeah, they are too. :o But I have to hand it to them for standing up for Terri Schiavo (at least Jesse did).

[!Viva Hate!]

Yeah, they are too. :o But I have to hand it to them for standing up for Terri Schiavo (at least Jesse did).
That's because Jesse is a:

http://private.peterlink.ru/ryboltowsk/leech.jpg

[Kuiper]

Are you saying he was a leach to oppose the murder of Terri Schiavo?

[!Viva Hate!]

Are you saying he was a leach to oppose the murder of Terri Schiavo?
No...I'm saying he was only there so he could leech airtime for himself...

[Kuiper]

No...I'm saying he was only there so he could leech airtime for himself...

I doubt it, he didn't seem to get a lot of attention, I mean he got some but probably the Dems were upset one of their own was down there opposing murder and so they told their bitches in the media to not make a big fuss out of it. Maybe he didn't want euthanasia to become acceptable in America because that could easily lead to the original goal of Planned Parenthood being fulfilled: explicitly Nazi-esque eugenics and the extermination of black people.

[chica]

the original goal of Planned Parenthood being fulfilled: explicitly Nazi-esque eugenics and the extermination of black people.
Why do they want to do that? :confused:

[Kuiper]

Why do they want to do that? :confused:

This lady:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger
Maybe they don't want to anymore...but that was their goal...eugenics, eliminating the weak and the minorities...

[!Viva Hate!]

Why do they want to do that? :confused:
Because they were Nazi's! Why else?

[chica]

How interesting... I always hear about them in positive context, that's why I asked.

[Kuiper]

Because they were Nazi's! Why else?

Well we can't say their exact stance on the economic philosophies of fascism, but they certainly were supporters of eugenics: one of the greatest evils ever. Trying to eliminate people for being different or being weak. Sickening...oh, and so is abortion, but you know, you could have a eugenics program that only involves killing adults hypothetically...

[!Viva Hate!]

How interesting... I always hear about them in positive context, that's why I asked.
Who Nazis?

[Kuiper]

Who Nazis?

No, those birth control-abortion supporters, the...yeah...Nazis...because they seem to love mass murder and eugenics...two things you can't say Hitler wasn't really into!

[!Viva Hate!]

No, those birth control-abortion supporters, the...yeah...Nazis...because they seem to love mass murder and eugenics...two things you can't say Hitler wasn't really into!
But Hitler at least had a cool mustache and uniform....

[chica]

Who Nazis?
No, Planned Parenthood
No, those birth control-abortion supporters, the...yeah...Nazis...because they seem to love mass murder and eugenics...two things you can't say Hitler wasn't really into!
Since when are you against birth control? http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png

[Kuiper]

But Hitler at least had a cool mustache and uniform....

Uniforms = cool
Hitler mustache = stupid looking

[!Viva Hate!]

No, Planned Parenthood

Since when are you against birth control? http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png
Is that a joke?

[!Viva Hate!]

Uniforms = cool
Hitler mustache = stupid looking
You're just jealous you can't grow facial hair...

[Kuiper]

Since when are you against birth control? http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png

I'm not, but I'm just using the word like that because Planned Parenthood seems to prefer calling themselves a birth control industry. People like Margaret Sanger are often called "birth control pioneers", and not abortion supporters or believers in eugenics.

[chica]

Is that a joke?

No :confused:

[Kuiper]

You're just jealous you can't grow facial hair...

No, I have to do a lot of work to keep my face sensually clean-shaven...just the way you like it!

[!Viva Hate!]

No :confused:
Abortion is a form of birth control...before they had the morning after pills abortion was called 'birth control'.

[!Viva Hate!]

No, I have to do a lot of work to keep my face sensually clean-shaven...just the way you like it!
Just admit you don't have enough hormones...

[Kuiper]

Just admit you don't have enough hormones...

If the amount of hormones you have keeps you so moody, I'm glad to be hormonally deficient...

[!Viva Hate!]

If the amount of hormones you have keeps you so moody, I'm glad to be hormonally deficient...
It's the people on the forum that keep me moody...currently, TMYEM...

[chica]

'Nor do we believe,' wrote Sanger in Pivot of Civilization, 'that the community could or should send to the lethal chamber the defective progeny resulting from irresponsible and unintelligent breeding.'

She maintained, however, that she advocated certain instances of coercion: "The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."

I might know people who think exactly the same :eek:

[!Viva Hate!]

I might know people who think exactly the same :eek:
You should alert the authorities...

[chica]

You should alert the authorities...

But it's just their personal belief, it's not like they're advocating it...

[!Viva Hate!]

But it's just their personal belief, it's not like they're advocating it...
But don't we commit the insane?

[chica]

But don't we commit the insane?
Who's insane in this case? :eek:

[!Viva Hate!]

Who's insane in this case? :eek:
Whomever you were referring to...unless we've stopped talking about them and started talking about us.

[Kuiper]

But it's just their personal belief, it's not like they're advocating it...

But they would, wouldn't they? What's the point to their personal belief if they won't ever advocate it? "I personally think some people should be prevented from having children and that fetuses with birth defects should be aborted...but I don't want that to happen...I just believe it should...but I don't want it to...but I think it really should...but I don't think it should...but I do...but I don't." It doesn't make sense...

[chica]

But they would, wouldn't they? What's the point to their personal belief if they won't ever advocate it? "I personally think some people should be prevented from having children and that fetuses with birth defects should be aborted...but I don't want that to happen...I just believe it should...but I don't want it to...but I think it really should...but I don't think it should...but I do...but I don't." It doesn't make sense...

But it happens, and it's fine with me...

Whomever you were referring to...unless we've stopped talking about them and started talking about us.

There is no such thing as 'us', Viva :p

[!Viva Hate!]

But it happens, and it's fine with me...



There is no such thing as 'us', Viva :p
I beg to differ...

[Kuiper]

But it happens, and it's fine with me...

You mean it happens that people have that inconsistent, contradictory "stance" on issues that is completely incorrect for you to claim they just believe but don't advocate? Well I don't care what you consider fine, the simple universal fact is that murder is bad, and abortion is murdering babies and eugenics euthanasia programs are murdering adults.

[chica]

Anyway, back to Sanger... I completely agree with this:

She wrote in a 1916 edition of Family Limitation, "no one can doubt that there are times when an abortion is justifiable," though she framed this in the context of her birth control advocacy, adding that "abortions will become unnecessary when care is taken to prevent conception. (Care is) the only cure for abortions."

"To each group we explained what contraception was; that abortion was the wrong way—no matter how early it was performed it was taking life; that contraception was the better way, the safer way—it took a little time, a little trouble, but was well worth while in the long run, because life had not yet begun."

[Kuiper]

Yeah, Planned Parenthood still claims they are trying to "prevent" abortions, but they seem to have a pretty profitable industry murdering babies rather than handing out condoms and pills.

[!Viva Hate!]

Yeah, Planned Parenthood still claims they are trying to "prevent" abortions, but they seem to have a pretty profitable industry murdering babies rather than handing out condoms and pills.
Yes...and who pays for it? Tax payers.

[chica]

You mean it happens that people have that inconsistent, contradictory "stance" on issues that is completely incorrect for you to claim they just believe but don't advocate?

Ummm, I don't really understand what you wrote there, but

1) If people have personal beliefs that I consider wrong, but they don't advocate it, it's fine with me because it won't hurt anyone

2) I would consider what level of involvement I would have with people who have this kind of beliefs, but if they are otherwise pleasant people it is possible that we could be friends

Well I don't care what you consider fine, the simple universal fact is that murder is bad, and abortion is murdering babies and eugenics euthanasia programs are murdering adults.

What Sanger said :)

[Kuiper]

I just found this pic and felt like posting it:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/EnthanasiePropaganda.jpg
Disturbing...

[!Viva Hate!]

Didn't Chica swear never to talk about this subject again? Shame shame!

[Kuiper]

Ummm, I don't really understand what you wrote there, but

1) If people have personal beliefs that I consider wrong, but they don't advocate it, it's fine with me because it won't hurt anyone

2) I would consider what level of involvement I would have with people who have this kind of beliefs, but if they are otherwise pleasant people it is possible that we could be friends

But these aren't views like "I personally will not have biological children because I carry genes for this very serious disease and don't want to pass it on", these are views calling for aggressive, forceful, even violent things to be done to other people. That kind of belief cannot be only personal, it can only be advocated because it only works when applied to others. To suggest otherwise is a logical fallacy.

What Sanger said :)

About what? The exterminating of black people, was that it?

[chica]

Didn't Chica swear never to talk about this subject again? Shame shame!

I'm trying to talk about personal beliefs Vs advocating policies! :p

But these aren't views like "I personally will not have biological children because I carry genes for this very serious disease and don't want to pass it on", these are views calling for aggressive, forceful, even violent things to be done to other people. That kind of belief cannot be only personal, it can only be advocated because it only works when applied to others. To suggest otherwise is a logical fallacy.

Apparently people are illogical beings :confused:

About what? The exterminating of black people, was that it?

Oh, Kui! Don't be like that, she was for exterminating both black and white people! That ain't racist! :p

Despite the allegations of racism, Sanger's work with minorities earned the respect of civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr.

In 1930, Sanger opened a family planning clinic in Harlem that sought to enlist support for contraceptive use and to bring the benefits of family planning to women who were denied access to their city's health and social services. Staffed by a black physician and black social worker, the clinic was endorsed by The Amsterdam News (the powerful local newspaper), the Abyssinian Baptist Church, the Urban League, and the black community's elder statesman, W.E.B. DuBois

[Kuiper]

Chica, darling, you do realize that people, especially those with some amount of power and influence, lie, right? They lie, like, a lot, and misrepresent themselves, distort information, deceive people, right? Planned Parenthood carefully positioned clinics in poor and minority neighborhoods for the purpose of encouraging to wipe out these "subhuman" types. And she was racist, she wanted to eliminate all black people and just the unhealthy white people. :p She could easily have business relations with black people and pretend to be nice with them, anyone can pretend and make believe.

[!Viva Hate!]

About what? The exterminating of black people, was that it?
Does he still count?
http://www.michael-jackson.com/mj2002.jpg

[chica]

Chica, darling, you do realize that people, especially those with some amount of power and influence, lie, right?

What are you talking about?! STOP IT, STOP IT, I'M NOT LISTENING!!! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/014.gif

[Kuiper]

What are you talking about?! STOP IT, STOP IT, I'M NOT LISTENING!!! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/014.gif

Finally some honesty from you and something very believable. :D :p

[!Viva Hate!]

What are you talking about?! STOP IT, STOP IT, I'M NOT LISTENING!!! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/014.gif
What's new?

[chica]

Finally some honesty from you and something very believable. :D :p
:eek:
What do I do to make people believe that I'm not honest? It puzzles me! I'm so honest that I get into trouble with people because of it!

[!Viva Hate!]

:eek:
What do I do to make people believe that I'm not honest? It puzzles me! I'm so honest that I get into trouble with people because of it!
He means that you're being honest that you don't listen to anything...not that you lie.

[Kuiper]

He means that you're being honest that you don't listen to anything...not that you lie.

True, and also honest that she is shocked that powerful people would deceive the public. :D

[everymanwithajobtodo]

if god was god he should be aware that I don't believe that he's good and that I always say heretic stuff ,so he would have thrown a damn straight ray(with thunder included)long time...ergo he's not that powerful or he just doesn't exists

Or is exceedingly merciful and wants you for his own.

[WinkWink]

i just want to say, that a religion thread is a danger to peace and calm on morrissey-solo. which means we are all normal!!! since this mirrors reality as we know it on this planet!!!! :D

Proof that being normal is awful

[chica]

Did you know that you can write to Vatican:

vis@pressva-vis.va

[the more you explore me!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZwHTDgHYUU&mode=related&search=

[CharethCutestory]

There is God...
And that's his picture:

http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/gallery/data/media/32/tan.jpg

:D

God is Mark Kermode?

[Kewpie]

Chareth Cutestory, you'd better get a pair of glasses. :p

Morrissey and Mark Kermode are only in common having a quiff, that's all.

[CharethCutestory]

Chareth Cutestory, you'd better get a pair of glasses. :p

Morrissey and Mark Kermode are only in common having a quiff, that's all.

http://sineadgleeson.com/blog/wp-images/kermode.jpg

I'd would go out tonight, but I've got fuck all to put on.

[Amy]

Religion?

Interesting...

I'm a Protestant :)

[Cassius]

I'm a Jew.

[nugz]

recovering Baptist. *shudder* :o

[Cassius]

recovering Baptist. *shudder* :o

Nugzie can't dance na na na na na! :p

[DAnn Coulter]

recovering Baptist. *shudder* :o

I hope it's not Westboro Baptist :eek:

[down_in_albion]

Atheist

[nugz]

Nugzie can't dance na na na na na! :p

when I was 8 years old, I was the flower girl in my uncle's wedding. at the reception I wanted to go and dance with everyone else, and my mom wouldn't let me. so i sat there at the table and cried and threw a hissy fit for hours. until finally my mom was like "fine go dance!" then i said "....ehhh, well now i don't wanna!" ...cuz you know, i was 8. :o I just wanted to do the freakin YMCA dammit. was that really so bad!? haha

[DAnn Coulter]

Non-practicing Catholic

PS: Doing the YMCA should be a capital crime :)

[nugz]

I hope it's not Westboro Baptist :eek:

i'm not sure what Westboro Baptist is. I was a "cant curse, cant smoke, cant drink, cant have sex (or anything close..."dont hold hands kids, it leads to other things..."), can't dance, can't listen to rock music, cant wear short skirts, etc etc etc..." kind of Baptist. of course once I got out on my own I did all these things X 50. :p

[nugz]

Non-practicing Catholic

PS: Doing the YMCA should be a capital crime :)

hahaha, yes but not when you're 8!! :p

[down_in_albion]

i'm not sure what Westboro Baptist is. I was a "cant curse, cant smoke, cant drink, cant have sex (or anything close..."dont hold hands kids, it leads to other things..."), can't dance, can't listen to rock music, cant wear short skirts, etc etc etc..." kind of Baptist. of course once I got out on my own I did all these things X 50. :p


Wesboro are those lunatics that picket the funerals of gay people, and hold homophobic slogans.


I wonder when the religions will work out that repression doesn't work :)

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

i'm not sure what Westboro Baptist is. I was a "cant curse, cant smoke, cant drink, cant have sex (or anything close..."dont hold hands kids, it leads to other things..."), can't dance, can't listen to rock music, cant wear short skirts, etc etc etc..." kind of Baptist. of course once I got out on my own I did all these things X 50. :p

I think that's an Adam Ant song. "Subtle innuendos follow..."

[Amy]

I wonder when the religions will work out that repression doesn't work :)

Most religions have already worked that out.
It's the people that haven't. :p

[nugz]

Wesboro are those lunatics that picket the funerals of gay people, and hold homophobic slogans.


I wonder when the religions will work out that repression doesn't work :)

ohh ok. no no, we never did anything like that. Of course I was taught that homosexuality was a terrible sin and all that, but we were never encouraged to be violent or demeaning or anything like that.

[down_in_albion]

Most religions have already worked that out.
It's the people that haven't. :p

I'd like to agree, but i'd be lying :p

[DAnn Coulter]

Here's what the Westboro Baptist Church is about
http://pdberger.com/images/graham1.jpg

These people actually make me smile.....it's funny to me that they devote their lives so passionetly to such a dumbass cause.....also it's funny to see them be all happy while spreading such hateful propaganda.

[down_in_albion]

Here's what the Westboro Baptist Church is about
http://pdberger.com/images/graham1.jpg

This people actually make me smile.....it's funny to me that they devote their lives so passionetly to such a dumbass cause.....also it's funny to see them be all happy while spreading such hateful propaganda.

They are clearly a cult group. I suspect once the patriarch dies it will fall apart. Or that could be me being atypically optimistic. There may be a need for a small amount of psychiatric help afterwards though.


On an unrelated note I just finished watching last weeks Colbert Report's and your man Ron Paul was on it :)

[DAnn Coulter]

They are clearly a cult group. I suspect once the patriarch dies it will fall apart. Or that could be me being atypically optimistic. There may be a need for a small amount of psychiatric help afterwards though.


On an unrelated note I just finished watching last weeks Colbert Report's and your man Ron Paul was on it :)

You're right, but I actually would like for these people to keep doing what they're doing...... their efforts have the opposite reaction from people than what they want.

PS: that "YOUR PASTOR IS A WHORE" sign is freaking hilarious, also I once watched a British documentary on these people and they had a sign that said "FAGS EAT POOP" lol

[down_in_albion]

You're right, but I actually would like for these people to keep doing what they're doing...... their efforts have the opposite reaction from people than what they want.

PS: that "YOUR PASTOR IS A WHORE" sign is freaking hilarious, also I once watched a British documentary on these people and they had a sign that said "FAGS EAT POOP" lol

There is something almost post-modern about them, you never know it could be a very long-running modern art instillation :D

[DAnn Coulter]

On an unrelated note I just finished watching last weeks Colbert Report's and your man Ron Paul was on it :)

OMG, thank youso much.... I haven't been watching Stewart and Colbert for a while..... I just found the video on youtube.... xoxo

[down_in_albion]

OMG, thank youso much.... I haven't been watching Stewart and Colbert for a while..... I just found the video on youtube.... xoxo

I'll keep an eye out for you, I usually watch both. Is Bill Maher's show still on? i'm pretty sure Paul has been on that a couple of times.

[DAnn Coulter]

I'll keep an eye out for you, I usually watch both. Is Bill Maher's show still on? i'm pretty sure Paul has been on that a couple of times.

Real Time with Bill Maher Is on break until August..... I watched Paul on his show and he didn't disappoint.

[down_in_albion]

Real Time with Bill Maher Is on break until August..... I watched Paul on his show and he didn't disappoint.

That's a shame I like that show. Thankfully someone is posting archive editions on youtube though :)

[mauve21]

Honestly, I was brought up Catholic and as
a teenager lapsed very heavily.
Since the death of both of my parents I can honestly say
I believe in God in a not very traditional way in that
I feel a lot of brainwashing has gone on with religion.
I can never get my head around people who claim to be adherents
of certain religions yet go against some of the rules.
If I was in a religion I'd be all the way or not at all.
Maybe that's black and white thinking on my part, but I actually
do not understand how it can sit well with someone's conscience sitting
up all high and mighty looking down on us "sinners" while the
christian is out having unwed sex or being greedy or slothful or
any of those "sins". I feel strongly about issues like abortion and homosexuality. I hate hypocrisy.
I also feel that the Vatican has conveniently looked away while
many women suffered in unhappy marriages or had way too many babies
just because the church said that was the right thing to do.
Also have had some very grounding (to put it nicely) experiences
with the type of christians who are only christians when it comes
to events such as funerals. I refer in particular to members of my family,
who never go to church and arranged a very catholic funeral for my
father, but then on the other hand would not speak or even look
at half of us relatives. I believe in a higher power, karma and nature.
And Morrissey..............

[Dave]

I was about 19 years old at the time, at the river with my dog, and these two guys, about the same age as I was, came walking up. They were traveling through town as part of some sort of missionary outreach and had left the bus to walk down to the river for a while. Nowadays I don't discuss religion with people on the street, but at that time I wasn't so hasty, and also I was interested in