Song/Lyric Meanings...

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

Yes, this may be a bit goofy but humor me.

We'd all like to think we know EXACTLY what Morrissey is saying in all of his songs. Hell,we've lived half our lives thinking he was singing directly to us. But maybe we dont, or maybe there are some songs we dont understand. I will name a song. If someone could explain the meaning, or their interpretaion of the song, that would help. And then after explaining it, they leave the title of a song they dont get, and someone explains that, and leaves another song maybe THEY dont get, and on, and on, and on.

Black-Eyed Susan. I dont get it, please fill me in, and then leave a song youre having trouble understanding.

[veradicere]

Yes, this may be a bit goofy but humor me.

We'd all like to think we know EXACTLY what Morrissey is saying in all of his songs. Hell,we've lived half our lives thinking he was singing directly to us. But maybe we dont, or maybe there are some songs we dont understand. I will name a song. If someone could explain the meaning, or their interpretaion of the song, that would help. And then after explaining it, they leave the title of a song they dont get, and someone explains that, and leaves another song maybe THEY dont get, and on, and on, and on.

Black-Eyed Susan. I dont get it, please fill me in, and then leave a song youre having trouble understanding.

I don't really know, but I always assumed Black-eyed susan was about a nihilistic trouble-maker who wears a lot of black eyeliner. One of those annoying goth chicks who doesn't believe in anything and always has an attitude. While Moz seems to be slagging her off the whole song, at the end he seems to be comparing himself with her "we were the first". I have no idea who it's about, but the LASID website suggest Siouxsie Sioux

so, there's my two cents, for what it's worth. I hope you weren't expecting an intelligent literary answer, b/c I'm too lazy for that on a saturday morning :)

As for a song I've never "got", I choose the endlessly vague, I Know Very Well How I Got My Name

[dazzak]

As far as I understand it, Morrissey essentially uses the flower the black eyed susan as a metaphor for the woman being sung about (wasn't it rumoured to be about Siouxsie Sioux?). She, like the flower, is a weed. Unwanted, yet beautiful in her own way.

I'd like to hear someone's take on "Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning".

[wolve]

Lifeguard sleeping, girl drowning:
quite simple. An outsider describes a situation of someone wanting to get the attention (as directly stated in his lyrics) of (here) a lifeguard. The outsider who sees all the efforts of that someone (the attention-whore), is furious (in a jealous way). The outsider kind of whispers in the ear of the sleeping lifeguard: Please don't worry/There'll be no fuss/She was/nobody's nothing (one of my favourite lyric pieces, along with the out-stretched arm). I love the way you can switch the roles of the characters. It doesn't necessary have to be a lifeguard and a girl drowning. (it's all methaphorically - well, isn't that always like that)

Somehow I get the idea you already found out about the above, dazzak?

[Modcon]

As far as I understand it, Morrissey essentially uses the flower the black eyed susan as a metaphor for the woman being sung about (wasn't it rumoured to be about Siouxsie Sioux?). She, like the flower, is a weed. Unwanted, yet beautiful in her own way.

I'd like to hear someone's take on "Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning".


Lifeguard sleeping, girl drowning I always took very literally, as a story really.
I never related it to Morrissey personally. But then again it could be inetrpeted as Morrissey trying to get close to his heroes of yesteryear and failing because he's not interesting enough. More or less something that was touched on in "Paint a vugar picture"

But then again, maybe it’s about Johhny Marr….who knows?

[wolve]

As for "I know very well how I got my name": I think it's one of the most perosnal songs Morrissey has ever written. It's definitely about himself (how he was as a kid, and how this made him how he is know) and the lines of "you think you were my first love etc" don't need an explanation, do they? You guys just want to know who he's addressing it to? ;)

[dazzak]

Well, that's why I chose it. You and Modcon had quite different interpretations. Its just one of those more ambiguous Morrissey songs that I love.

[Modcon]

I'd like to hear what you think about "alsation cousin"

[wolve]

and if anyone finds the will: please enlighten me about 'Ammunition'!

[slurred_veneer]

I'd like to hear what you think about "alsation cousin"


Alsatian Cousin is all about sex and being envious of people in sexual relationship (if you're not getting any yourself). More specifically, it seems to be about a male teacher having an affair with one of his female students. Leather-elbowed tweed coats and jackets were the very epitome of intellectual scholars during the seventies and "is that the best you can do?" is a clever way of mocking that character, the supposedly intellectual and erudite professor who charms his female students with a kind of intellectual mannerism when all he's really after is sex (like everyone else).

The line "with your tent-flap open wide" is quite good. It's an obvious sexual metaphor but it could also be read quite literally, as a reference to the tent where the pair is having sex.

[Uncleskinny]

Alsatian Cousin is all about sex and being envious of people in sexual relationship (if you're not getting any yourself). More specifically, it seems to be about a male teacher having an affair with one of his female students. Leather-elbowed tweed coats and jackets were the very epitome of intellectual scholars during the seventies and "is that the best you can do?" is a clever way of mocking that character, the supposedly intellectual and erudite professor who charms his female students with a kind of intellectual mannerism when all he's really after is sex (like everyone else).

The line "with your tent-flap open wide" is quite good. It's an obvious sexual metaphor but it could also be read quite literally, as a reference to the tent where the pair is having sex.

I was going to wade in on both Lifeguard...and Alsatian Cousin, but what has been written already is what I would have said.

Peter

[Mada]

and if anyone finds the will: please enlighten me about 'Ammunition'!

My explaination couldn't be written better than someone who has already written it:



I think that it is about suicide. nothing to do with any revenge on anyone. Here's why:
Some references to suicide - "each ridge, and narrow bridge, each cheveron, enticing me on", "each warning sign" (warning signs are cliffs, etc.) "i know what's expected of me now, veering cliffwards". I think he is saying he doesn't need any ammunition against himself, he has enough.. "I've been crying. it comes back on these salient days" (salient meaning the feelings are especially prominent on those days) "and it stays, and it says: we've never really been away" I think this refers to the voices in his head telling him he's not good enough so just give it all up. these feelings are always in the back of his head, they've never really gone away. But he's saying, Look, I don't need more ammunition; He is just happy with the things he's found. He can take all of these warning signs in his stride now.
- LASID (http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moz/lyrics/maladjus/ammuniti.htm)


How about... Dagenham Dave?

[++++++]

Alsatian Cousin is genius. There's no explicit connection between the speaker and the person that is being confronted; they could be in a relationship, friends, or the speaker could simply be vexed that a person that he has loved from afar has chosen a different suitor. The gender of the person being questioned is also never revealed. Morrissey leaves that up to our imagination, focusing all of the song on the relationship between the person being questioned and the school teacher (as slurred_veneer pointed out). There's a heavy undercurrent of menace in the song, with the speaker obsessively seeking out the details of the lovers' relationship, going so far as to read the notes that the lovers leave one another, and revealing his knowledge of them to the person being confronted.

I hate to constantly bring up Bowie comparisons when I talk about this song, but I can't help it. The almost-dancy beat of the song and Vini Reilly's searing Fripp-esque guitar work definitely remind me of tracks from Scary Monsters. And just like some of Bowie's best songs, Morrissey strips away every needless element from the lyrics, compacting it down into pure meaning. Not a line is wasted.

Definitely one of my favorite Moz songs.

[wolve]

Dagenham Dave is hard as hell 'cause it's one of the most simple songs he ever made:) I pass the torch!

just like: some girls are bigger than others.
Is he serious? Is he joking? etc.

[Godlovesugly]

Swallow on my neck...and why he left out some of the lyrics in the lyric book to it? morrissey's relationship with someone here i'm guessing

[Sir Alec]

Dagenham Dave is hard as hell 'cause it's one of the most simple songs he ever made:) I pass the torch!

That entire song is easy! Guitar, rythme guitar, drums, lyircs... but not the Bass. The Bass is fucking hard.

[veradicere]

You guys just want to know who he's addressing it to? ;)

well, yes of course :)

It's very simple, but not necessarily straightforward, and I think that adds to the mystery for me.

And I don't really see how that stanzas that start, "you think you were my first love" relate to the rest of it.

So tell me, how did he get his name?

[JeanneDarc]

Girlfriend In A Coma is another one I can't get hold of.

Coma is obviously not literary about a girl in a coma, so it must be a metaphor.

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

My explaination couldn't be written better than someone who has already written it:


I disagree. Wasnt this the first album after the hearings. Seems alot of Maladjusted was directed at 2 of his former band mates.

I don't need more ammunition
I've got more than I can spend
I don't think of who I'm missing
I've got no space and no time
In my life, anymore
No space or time
In my life, anymore
For Revenge

Those lines scream "I'm a bigger man, youre a session musician, its time for me to move on and forget you, why try to trade shots with you when you are nothing. Its time to move on"

[veradicere]

Girlfriend In A Coma is another one I can't get hold of.

Coma is obviously not literary about a girl in a coma, so it must be a metaphor.

Or just a joke....that's how I always took it.

[Pervomartovtsi]

time ago I made up an identical thread to this one...and it died...:(

i want to know more about such a little thing...

[mjp]

Girlfriend In A Coma is another one I can't get hold of.

Coma is obviously not literary about a girl in a coma, so it must be a metaphor.

I could be wrong, as it's Sunday, but wasn't the story of this that The Smiths were touring the US and there was a national story in the media at the time about a girl who was in a coma and following her boyfriends plight?

And then from that news item Mr Moz considered how he would feel in the boyfriend's position and thus the lyrics were born?

So I think it's both quite literal but also a statement on his sexuality (whilst playing this on the current tour he could be seen looking at his watch, impaitently, (think it was along the "I would hate anything to happen to her" line)). This gave me the impression that he couldn't care less about the subject (ie a GIRL).

[veradicere]

I could be wrong, as it's Sunday, but wasn't the story of this that The Smiths were touring the US and there was a national story in the media at the time about a girl who was in a coma and following her boyfriends plight?

And then from that news item Mr Moz considered how he would feel in the boyfriend's position and thus the lyrics were born?

So I think it's both quite literal but also a statement on his sexuality (whilst playing this on the current tour he could be seen looking at his watch, impaitently, (think it was along the "I would hate anything to happen to her" line)). This gave me the impression that he couldn't care less about the subject (ie a GIRL).

I seem to remember hearing that as well...

I think the song is brilliant. I love how the beautiful heartfelt music is juxtaposed against Morrissey's lyrics, which are clearly tongue in cheek.

The video makes it even more perfect...Morrissey doing a very good job of looking geniunely upset :)

[Worm]

"Songs That Saved Your Life" (I think it was, or maybe Rogan) says "Girlfriend In A Coma" is a play on a subgenre of 50s rock and roll dealing with the death of a loved one under tragic circumstances. Youth cut short, etc. It's also a witty companion piece with the next song on the album ("Stop Me"), both songs describing the singer's basic ambivalence. Toward one woman or women in general is hard to tell.

[jossu]

What about Alma Matters? I have never really understood it....:(

[Pervomartovtsi]

you all are so dirty minded everything is about SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX...come one boys I think Moz's got more things in his head than Penis and Vaginas

[mjp]

"Songs That Saved Your Life" (I think it was, or maybe Rogan) says "Girlfriend In A Coma" is a play on a subgenre of 50s rock and roll dealing with the death of a loved one under tragic circumstances. Youth cut short, etc. It's also a witty companion piece with the next song on the album ("Stop Me"), both songs describing the singer's basic ambivalence. Toward one woman or women in general is hard to tell.

I'm glad you concur.

Alma Matters....?

Well it's one of two things:
[a] Reference to Alma an ex-character from Coronation Street
or
[b] A vision of the future re: Princess Diana, which I'm sure you all read the consipiracy theories on a long time ago on this site?

[Godlovesugly]

Swallow on my neck?
linky link (http://www.oz.net/~moz/lyrics/othermor/swallowo.htm)

Who is jake?

[Uncleskinny]

I'm glad you concur.

Alma Matters....?

Well it's one of two things:
[a] Reference to Alma an ex-character from Coronation Street
or
[b] A vision of the future re: Princess Diana, which I'm sure you all read the consipiracy theories on a long time ago on this site?

Look....

Alma Matters is about recognising your female and male personae.
At the time the song was released Amanda Barrie played Alma Sedgewick/Baldwin/Halliwell and came out as a Lesbian. Listen to the lyrics, in my mind it's so obvious...in mind body and soul, in part and in hole. He's saying be happy with your sexuality whether in part (male) or hole (female). In short Morrissey is saying whatever your persuasion, be happy with it, and if you have a female side, embrace it.

Goodnight,

Peter

[mjp]

Who is jake?

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=61113&highlight=Jake

PS - Cheers Peter - good theory and I will embrace that upon my next visit to Maladjusted. Good interpretation of the "(w)hole" and "part" references.

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

Look....

Alma Matters is about recognising your female and male personae.
At the time the song was released Amanda Barrie played Alma Sedgewick/Baldwin/Halliwell and came out as a Lesbian. Listen to the lyrics, in my mind it's so obvious...in mind body and soul, in part and in hole. He's saying be happy with your sexuality whether in part (male) or hole (female). In short Morrissey is saying whatever your persuasion, be happy with it, and if you have a female side, embrace it.

Goodnight,

Peter
I don think its sexual at all. Just simply where youve come from and where youve been. Dont judge me, I wont judge you.

Tony the Pony?

[Worm]

Uncleskinny has provided us all with an inspired interpretation of "part" and "whole"-- henceforth the song won't quite sound the same to me-- but I think the most likely interpretation is the one given by mozzer8633. I say this because "Alma Matters" is simply a play on words: "alma mater matters" is shortened (er...cleverly...) to "alma matters". It carries the same shading as the title "Southpaw Grammar", that where you went to school, your alma mater, says everything about who you are. The song is about defending your choices even when they appear to be wrong, because "someone, somewhere" will appreciate the many steps that led you to where you've come. It's about accepting mistakes and detours as being necessary to creating a whole person, and (presumably) loving that person, whether you're looking at yourself or someone else.

Could that apply to someone who's had a sex change? Certainly, but it could apply to many more people besides. I think the song is a more adult take on "Accept Yourself" and serves as a touchstone to Morrissey's mature work. "Southpaw Grammar" and "Maladjusted" both seem tilted in a few key places toward themes of looking at the past in order to understand the present. Then, after the wilderness years of not having a recording contract, the lawsuits, and "exile" in Los Angeles, I think part of Morrissey's newfound, elder statesman significance with "You Are The Quarry", of which he himself was and is acutely aware, largely comes from finding success after so many difficult trials (both literal and figurative).

For instance, the pleasure in meeting the sexually liberated person that Morrissey portrays himself as on "Ringleader Of The Tormentors" acquires its poignancy and potency from knowing his "alma mater", if you will-- the sentimental education he received over the years from lovers and friends and all the ordinary boys and girls. To like his latest stuff almost requires a deep and abiding appreciation of everything that's come before it, and I think a lot of his recent songs are intentionally underwritten to play this up. A song like "Dear God Please Help Me" is great on its own, but I think he's almost asking his audience to summon up, in the spaces which fifteen years ago he'd have padded up with more words, echoes of all those horrid, sexless nights he sang about in songs like "How Soon Is Now?" and "Girl Afraid". Understanding Morrissey in 2006 (or 1997, when "Alma Matters" was released) means understanding Morrissey from 1959 on.

Such is the way Morrissey has written his personal triumph into his songs. On "Maladjusted" he is still mired in agony, depression, loneliness, and everything else we've come to expect, yet "Alma Matters" strikes a note of hopeful conviction that all of his pain has not gone to waste. As Oscar Wilde wrote in De Profundis, "Whatever is realized is right"; the person you are is not an incomplete mess of random choices, unresolved and fragmentary, it's you at your fullest, no more or less than exactly what you were always going to be. If you've ever wondered how the road to Morrissey's present happiness (or what passes for it in his world) was paved, look no further than the attitude expressed in "Alma Matters". He came to terms with his shortcomings and mistakes, and expressed hope that someone out there would discern and appreciate a life fraught with misery and error and "funny little singles" but also, more importantly, blazing with valor.

[faroffplaces]

For instance, the pleasure in meeting the sexually liberated person that Morrissey portrays himself as on "Ringleader Of The Tormentors" acquires its poignancy and potency from knowing his "alma mater", if you will-- the sentimental education he received over the years from lovers and friends and all the ordinary boys and girls. To like his latest stuff almost requires a deep and abiding appreciation of everything that's come before it, and I think a lot of his recent songs are intentionally underwritten to play this up. A song like "Dear God Please Help Me" is great on its own, but I think he's almost asking his audience to summon up, in the spaces which fifteen years ago he'd have padded up with more words, echoes of all those horrid, sexless nights he sang about in songs like "How Soon Is Now?" and "Girl Afraid". Understanding Morrissey in 2006 (or 1997, when "Alma Matters" was released) means understanding Morrissey from 1959 on.

I absolutely agree - though as someone who heard Ringleader first (I swear I won't make this my schtick around here) I want to mention that I found the subtext without knowing Morrissey's background; the album is absolutely good enough that it says the same things to a neophyte. It doesn't say them as loudly or as coherently, and being familiar with his life and prior work certainly helps, but I think the intent comes through.

I think ROTT is deliberately underwritten as well, which requires a small leap of faith, but not that much of one. Originally I thought that the purpose was underlining the big, powerfully delivered, physically stressful melodies, in keeping with the whole bit about ROTT's being about the body as much as the mind. However your argument makes sense, and I even think the two go quite well together...

[dazzak]

Worm, you just had to go and brain it up on this thread, didn't you? Sell it someplace else, nerdoid.

[maybe]

Interesting thoughts about Alma Matters, Uncleskinny and Worm. Fascinating how interpretations vary.

I'd love to hear someone's take on some of the new b-sides like Good Looking Man About Town and If You Don't Like Me..., as well as others' interpretations of In The Future When All's Well

[faroffplaces]

...as well as others' interpretations of In The Future When All's Well

Generally, I feel the song has a lot to do with the emotions one goes through on pulling out of a long depression, or dark period; it's got that feeling of triumph ("I thank you with all of my heart..."), but also of worry, of the profound fear that things can't possibly continue to improve, and possibly the fear that they will continue to improve, and thus drag the narrator further away from a situation he understands ("a sad game" ... "something must have gone right?").

I also read it, somewhat more directly, as a discussion of the scariness of becoming a more physically liberated person, after years of non-engagement with the flesh; as in "You Have Killed Me," sex is conflated with death ("I will lie down and be counted"), and that little pause and "uh" between the first line and "...the best of health" makes for a nice little moment of discomfort as well. For an absolutely enormous moment of discomfort you can also consult "paired off, pawed till I can barely stand it."

("Health" could also refer to mental health, which makes sense given that I think the song is at least partially about depression.)





No clue who "Lee" is. I've seen (possibly on this board) Lee Hazleton and F. Lee Bailey, which both make some sense but don't quite work for me. Lee is probably an in-joke that we'll never get.

Tell me about "Michael's Bones." It seems like a very specific reference that I should be getting. Also, I think we all get "America is Not the World," but does anyone see an actual subtext there?

[wolve]

Since we've been discussing some ROTT-tracks, could somebody explain On the streets I ran? (for me that's the weakest track on the album, really, can't get hold of it)

[mjp]

Since we've been discussing some ROTT-tracks, could somebody explain On the streets I ran? (for me that's the weakest track on the album, really, can't get hold of it)

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=58285&highlight=On+the+streets

This was a thread a while back that championed this specific song.

If you read it you may find I disagree with you - I love it.

I happen to think it's a lot about The Smiths (turned sickness into popular song) versus Solo career (turned sickness into UNpopular song).

[Uncleskinny]

Generally, I feel the song has a lot to do with the emotions one goes through on pulling out of a long depression, or dark period; it's got that feeling of triumph ("I thank you with all of my heart..."), but also of worry, of the profound fear that things can't possibly continue to improve, and possibly the fear that they will continue to improve, and thus drag the narrator further away from a situation he understands ("a sad game" ... "something must have gone right?").

I also read it, somewhat more directly, as a discussion of the scariness of becoming a more physically liberated person, after years of non-engagement with the flesh; as in "You Have Killed Me," sex is conflated with death ("I will lie down and be counted"), and that little pause and "uh" between the first line and "...the best of health" makes for a nice little moment of discomfort as well. For an absolutely enormous moment of discomfort you can also consult "paired off, pawed till I can barely stand it."

("Health" could also refer to mental health, which makes sense given that I think the song is at least partially about depression.)





No clue who "Lee" is. I've seen (possibly on this board) Lee Hazleton and F. Lee Bailey, which both make some sense but don't quite work for me. Lee is probably an in-joke that we'll never get.

Tell me about "Michael's Bones." It seems like a very specific reference that I should be getting. Also, I think we all get "America is Not the World," but does anyone see an actual subtext there?


I think "In The Future When All's Well" is very specifically about death, whether from the 1st or third person's point of view. I see it as the thoughts of a person looking back on life, and ultimately realising that they are but another number, another life gone. As always though, Morrissey slips in the references to life being not totally worthless due to the love experienced. "I will lie down and be counted" - just another figure, another statistic, however, the title shows that death itself is liberating. There's a very clever bit of wordplay in the lyrics - "Hold me closely, if your will allows it" - will in the sense of free-thinking, but also in the sense of a person's dying wishes, legally speaking.

Peter

[sarahT]

I'm glad you concur.

Alma Matters....?

Well it's one of two things:
[a] Reference to Alma an ex-character from Coronation Street
or
[b] A vision of the future re: Princess Diana, which I'm sure you all read the consipiracy theories on a long time ago on this site?

I haven't a clue what Alma Matters is all about but I'd still be willing to bet the entire contents of my house that it's not about Alma off Corrie.

[Worm]

Worm, you just had to go and brain it up on this thread, didn't you? Sell it someplace else, nerdoid.

Don't worry, dazzak, I may be taking a long hiatus soon. They're boxing me up for a long voyage with someone called Dr. Dave Bowman. Who knows when I'll return? For now, I still have the greatest enthusiasm for the forum.

[dazzak]

From my somewhat limited research, Worm, I have gathered you're either travelling to Australia to work with a wildlife expert or being buried alive with an obscure, and ead, jazz artist (who, of course, had a secret optometry doctorate).

[Worm]

2001: A Space Odyssey

HAL 9000 COMPUTER: I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Bowman: Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL?
HAL: Affirmative, Dave, I read you.
Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Dave Bowman: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL.
HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
Dave Bowman: Where the hell'd you get that idea, HAL?
HAL: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

------------------------------------------------------------------
[HAL won't let Dave into the ship]

Dave Bowman: All right, HAL; I'll go in through the emergency airlock.
HAL: Without your space helmet, Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult.
Dave Bowman: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the doors!
HAL: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

------------------------------------------------------------------

[on Dave's return to the ship, after HAL has killed the rest of the crew]

HAL: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

------------------------------------------------------------------
HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

[Ambrosia]

Wonderful and useful topic.
What about the last part of "The Father Who Must Be Killed"?
Some lines are v. suicidal, but then the protagonist kills the mum: does he kill himself too?
And what about Speedway?
Just two examples of lyrics to enlighten :).

[wolve]

Speedway is about the courtcase - wonderful threatening!

TFWMBK: the child kills the mum too? no way!

[no one in particular]

Girlfriend In A Coma is another one I can't get hold of.

Coma is obviously not literary about a girl in a coma, so it must be a metaphor.

Just an fyi for this thread, in case someone might benefit who didn't already know:

There is this site: http://www.songmeanings.net/

with an active forum of people who post interpretations of a comprehensive database of various songs. There is look up by artist and then select song and you can view all the "song meanings" that users have postulated. They tend to be very static posts, though, without meaningful discussion. (It is also a handy site to quickly get to song lyrics, although I have found that there are sometimes mistakes in them.)

So, for ex. with Girlfriend in a Coma, there are 2 pages worth of thoughts on this song. http://www.songmeanings.net/lyric.php?lid=51290

That site can definitely be interesting to review for Smiths/Morrissey (and other) songs, but obviously it is WAY more fun to have dynamic conversations in here! :)

[Ambrosia]

Speedway is about the courtcase - wonderful threatening!

TFWMBK: the child kills the mum too? no way!

Probably I've misunderstood this line:
"But still the step-child pressed the knife to her throat"
Not sure, anyway...I need to think about it :p .:D

[mjp]

That site can definitely be interesting to review for Smiths/Morrissey (and other) songs, but obviously it is WAY more fun to have dynamic conversations in here! :)

Good link - but I agree, much better to discuss in here - got to keep the ratings up!

[Ambrosia]

Is the Headmaster Ritual autobiographic?:confused:

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

Speedway is about the courtcase - wonderful threatening!

TFWMBK: the child kills the mum too? no way!

Speedway is not about the court case is it??

And at the end of Father who ..., the step child(a female) kills herself.

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

Wonderful and useful topic.
What about the last part of "The Father Who Must Be Killed"?
Some lines are v. suicidal, but then the protagonist kills the mum: does he kill himself too?
And what about Speedway?
Just two examples of lyrics to enlighten :).

stepchild is a she not a he as referenced earlier in the lines:
"With his dying breath, he grabs her hand
And he looks into her eyes
He says "I'm sorry" and he dies

So I think she kills herself and the reference to motherless birds( a great one) just more illustrates her loneliness, not that she is now herself motherless. In fact she tell hers mother not to miss her.

[Rachel]

Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning...I read in this one book that it's about this woman who everyone thought was going to be ''Mrs Morrissey''...until they had a falling out, but now they're friends again. She was on his management apparrently.

[Ambrosia]

stepchild is a she not a he as referenced earlier in the lines:
"With his dying breath, he grabs her hand
And he looks into her eyes
He says "I'm sorry" and he dies

So I think she kills herself and the reference to motherless birds( a great one) just more illustrates her loneliness, not that she is now herself motherless. In fact she tell hers mother not to miss her.

I guess those lines are about her step-father. As to the step-child, you're surely right, it's a girl, but I've noticed it just yesterday. Sorry. :o
As to the final lines, instead:
"Momma don’t miss me
Momma don’t miss me
This death will complete me"
"But where I go there will be no one to meet me
I know there will be no one to meet me"
But still the step-child pressed the knife to her throat
Heart pointing to the sky"

What really muddles up my ideas is that "but": it makes me think she changes her mind and presses the knife to mum's throat, even if she (the step-child) is dying...I don't know,I'm still v. doubtful about the meaning of that "her".
I didn't pay attention to that "Motherless", but it's an uncertain word, maybe...

[JeanneDarc]

Is the Headmaster Ritual autobiographic?:confused:

He told in numerous interviews he hated school. He also 'suffered' a catholic upbringing which is also mentioned many times. Most of his work is layered autobiographal but on which scale it holds truth that we don't know.

[King Leer]

I guess those lines are about her step-father. As to the step-child, you're surely right, it's a girl, but I've noticed it just yesterday. Sorry. :o
As to the final lines, instead:
"Momma don’t miss me
Momma don’t miss me
This death will complete me"
"But where I go there will be no one to meet me
I know there will be no one to meet me"
But still the step-child pressed the knife to her throat
Heart pointing to the sky"

What really muddles up my ideas is that "but": it makes me think she changes her mind and presses the knife to mum's throat, even if she (the step-child) is dying...I don't know,I'm still v. doubtful about the meaning of that "her".
I didn't pay attention to that "Motherless", but it's an uncertain word, maybe...

The "but still" means in spite of the fact that she believes she's going to hell (suicide being a sin) where no one will meet her, she still decides to take her own young life.

[Ambrosia]

The "but still" means in spite of the fact that she believes she's going to hell (suicide being a sin) where no one will meet her, she still decides to take her own young life.

Thanks, that's interesting too...

[Rocco Sifredi]

Sorry... aren't ALL songs about Johnny?
Rocco
PS Black Eyed Susan is about SUEDE in my opinion.

[King Leer]

Sorry... aren't ALL songs about Johnny?
Rocco
PS Black Eyed Susan is about SUEDE in my opinion.

Some said it was about goth Siouxsie Sioux -- Moz and Siouxie had a somewhat fractious relationship while recording the duet "Interlude".

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

Hey how about Asian Rut?
Its my least favorite Moz song but I will admit, after hearing it a few times, I began skipping it so I have never even tried to figure it out.

[mozmic_dancer]

Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning...I read in this one book that it's about this woman who everyone thought was going to be ''Mrs Morrissey''...until they had a falling out, but now they're friends again. She was on his management apparrently.

I personally can't confirm that story, but you are right to suggest that "Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning" does address someone in particular.

Is anyone here familiar with Stevie Smith? She wrote a poem called "Not Waving, But Drowning". I always wondered if Morrissey knew her work and decided to do his own version of the poem? They are similiar in theme in that in Smith's poem and Morrissey's song, the cries for help are both ignored/misinterpreded:

Stevie Smith - Not Waving But Drowning

Nobody heard him, the dead man,
But still he lay moaning:
I was much further out than you thought
And not waving but drowning.

Poor chap, he always loved larking
And now he's dead
It must have been too cold for him his heart gave way,
They said.

Oh, no no no, it was too cold always
(Still the dead one lay moaning)
I was much too far out all my life
And not waving but drowning.

[Worm]

Morrissey has said in at least one interview that I know of that he admires the work of Stevie Smith. I thought of that poem too when I heard the song.

For an opposite take on the "drowning girl" scenario, there's the wonderful "Ya Ho" by James, where a beach full of people hope that a girl drowns after finding freedom away from the shore.

[Sunbags]

Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning...I read in this one book that it's about this woman who everyone thought was going to be ''Mrs Morrissey''...until they had a falling out, but now they're friends again. She was on his management apparrently.

From Les Inrockuptibles interview, 1995 -

Q: You're not always free from any reproach: in Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning, we find a cruelty in your voice, in your words. A nastiness which seems not to be autobiographical.

M: It's a song inspired by real facts but what's the use of talking about it since the girl in question in this song sank a long time ago ? (smile) Yes, I can be cruel. Yes, I can be as cruel with women as with men.

We have all learned a valuable lesson here - do not go sailing/swimming with moz and ESPECIALLY do not attempt to fish in the presence of the mozmeister. That is all.

[mozmic_dancer]

Morrissey has said in at least one interview that I know of that he admires the work of Stevie Smith. I thought of that poem too when I heard the song.

For an opposite take on the "drowning girl" scenario, there's the wonderful "Ya Ho" by James, where a beach full of people hope that a girl drowns after finding freedom away from the shore.


I like James. I never heard of that particular song, but I looked up the lyrics. Good stuff! I seem to remember Morrissey was a fan of them all those years ago.

I never realized "drowning" was such a popular theme in poems and songs!

[Summal]

Hey how about Asian Rut?
Its my least favorite Moz song but I will admit, after hearing it a few times, I began skipping it so I have never even tried to figure it out.

Depending on my mood, I both love and loathe this song. Seen from a minorities perspective it's all about racism. Tragically though, Morrissey was interpreted as being the racist, but this of course is all wrong.
The first two verses hint towards the fact that this asian boy has gone through so much pain, hatred and violence that he's lost it completely, and is left with no other option than seeking revenge (revenge possibly being justice in law, and a fair society without racism, but supposedly revenge as in murder).

However, at the end hour, the complicated situation ends up as a battle in which the asian boy is once again alone, and thus doomed. The boy is killed, and the bad circle continues.

A man from a specific race is being killed in the name of racism, and other people from the same race feel threatened, and feel the need for arming themselves.

The protagonist himself only whitnesses this, and the last verse is a cry for a better and fair society:

I'm just passing through here
On my way to somewhere civilised
And maybe I'll even arrive
Maybe I'll even arrive

He arrives a civilised society the day racism is gone, and people can live side by side in peace. In REAL peace.


This is my interpetation of the song, and indeed, I may be wrong. There's no doubt that this is one of Moz' more controversial songs, and his desire of walking on the edge of what is socially acceptable shines through. But I think, as I will do with all Morrissey's lyrics (mistakably so?) , that he means what is politically correct.

[slurred_veneer]

I'd love to hear someone's take on some of the new b-sides like Good Looking Man About Town and If You Don't Like Me..., as well as others' interpretations of In The Future When All's Well

If You Don't Like Me is pretty self-explanatory, isn't it? It's yet another in Morrissey's seemingly endless row of songs about thwarted affections and unrequited love, executed with the usual elegance and eloquence.

I'd say that the most interesting thing about this song in particular is that it's so clearly written from the perspective of someone who is bi-sexual. I was slightly amazed the first time I listened to the song that he so explicitly states both a "young man" and a "young woman" as the objects of his desires. He used to be so vague and ambiguous but lately it seems that he wants to specify gender, whether it be female ("the woman of my dreams/she never came along") or male ("then he motions to me/with his hand on my knee"), in a mucher higher degree than he used to.

Good Looking Man About Town is more complicated but it basically concerns the same themes. Again it's gender-specific, the person who is addressed is a homosexual man, and again it deals with feeling inept and unable to find an outlet for one's sexual desires. Morrissey himself seems to identify with the "good looking man" initially, with characteristic nonchalance stating that "corruption of the spirit isn't in it for a good looking man about town", which might be a reference to, and negates the moral of, "The Portrait of Dorian Gray". At the end, though, he finds himself waking up from the dream of his delusions, alone and deserted on an empty street that doesn't offer any solace, be it worldly or otherworldly ("no moon and no stars"). The line "hear the gang say:marry me, marry me" is probably a reference to the huge amount of admiration morrissey gets from his fans and as a public person. In the context of the song it is of course meant to suggest that that kind of fan worship doesn't help him a bit.

[veradicere]

Look....

Alma Matters is about recognising your female and male personae.
At the time the song was released Amanda Barrie played Alma Sedgewick/Baldwin/Halliwell and came out as a Lesbian. Listen to the lyrics, in my mind it's so obvious...in mind body and soul, in part and in hole. He's saying be happy with your sexuality whether in part (male) or hole (female). In short Morrissey is saying whatever your persuasion, be happy with it, and if you have a female side, embrace it.

Goodnight,

Peter

Wow, that's a great interpretation...I went back and looked at LASID, and it does indeed say "hole" not "whole."

If your interpretation is correct, I don't know who's more clever, you or moz :)

[veradicere]

I personally can't confirm that story, but you are right to suggest that "Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning" does address someone in particular.

Is anyone here familiar with Stevie Smith? She wrote a poem called "Not Waving, But Drowning". I always wondered if Morrissey knew her work and decided to do his own version of the poem? They are similiar in theme in that in Smith's poem and Morrissey's song, the cries for help are both ignored/misinterpreded:

Stevie Smith - Not Waving But Drowning

Nobody heard him, the dead man,
But still he lay moaning:
I was much further out than you thought
And not waving but drowning.

Poor chap, he always loved larking
And now he's dead
It must have been too cold for him his heart gave way,
They said.

Oh, no no no, it was too cold always
(Still the dead one lay moaning)
I was much too far out all my life
And not waving but drowning.

wow, that's an amazing poem, thank you for posting that.

[mozzer8633@mac.com]

Depending on my mood, I both love and loathe this song. Seen from a minorities perspective it's all about racism. Tragically though, Morrissey was interpreted as being the racist, but this of course is all wrong.
The first two verses hint towards the fact that this asian boy has gone through so much pain, hatred and violence that he's lost it completely, and is left with no other option than seeking revenge (revenge possibly being justice in law, and a fair society without racism, but supposedly revenge as in murder).

However, at the end hour, the complicated situation ends up as a battle in which the asian boy is once again alone, and thus doomed. The boy is killed, and the bad circle continues.

A man from a specific race is being killed in the name of racism, and other people from the same race feel threatened, and feel the need for arming themselves.

The protagonist himself only whitnesses this, and the last verse is a cry for a better and fair society:

I'm just passing through here
On my way to somewhere civilised
And maybe I'll even arrive
Maybe I'll even arrive

He arrives a civilised society the day racism is gone, and people can live side by side in peace. In REAL peace.


This is my interpetation of the song, and indeed, I may be wrong. There's no doubt that this is one of Moz' more controversial songs, and his desire of walking on the edge of what is socially acceptable shines through. But I think, as I will do with all Morrissey's lyrics (mistakably so?) , that he means what is politically correct.

Thank you very much. I will give it another go. Loved it live with Day on stand up, but its got to be Morrisseys slowest song. It almost comes to a complete stop it seems.

[wolve]

To talk about Smiths-songs now:
I'm still a bit in the dark about Reel around the fountain & Hand that rocks the cradle...
Really, you cannot deny the critics it got about the subject being 'sex with children'?

[faroffplaces]

To talk about Smiths-songs now:
I'm still a bit in the dark about Reel around the fountain & Hand that rocks the cradle...
Really, you cannot deny the critics it got about the subject being 'sex with children'?

I read Reel Around the Fountain on a couple of levels; my favorite is that it's a come-on to fame, or the whole of England - "virtually dead" and "easily led" being comments on the state of an unhappy, pop-culture-saturated society, which the narrator doesn't think is unredeemable, and on the contrary thinks is kind of cute. ("People see no worth in you...I do.")

"Fifteen minutes with you" then becomes a reference to Andy Warhol's fifteen minutes of fame. It's not the only reading, and the narrator could really be anybody -it's a fairly generic story about passive lust- but that's how it's always made the most sense to me. Admittedly, it probably read very differently at the time, before Morrissey was so strongly associated with this rough relationship he has with the public and press.

(I will admit that this wasn't my instinctive reading; I stole it from someone, I no longer remember who - however they struck me as so right that I've internalized the thing completely.)

Anyway, even if you're reading it primarily on face value, I don't see "sex with children" at all in "Reel." The line "how you took a child and you made him old" doesn't really make sense when taken literally. The narrator's lust is unrequited; he's being "made old" only in the sense that he's having a rough time with his sexual awakening, and is suffering from a crush on someone who, thus far, somehow refuses to sweep him off his feet with a breathy "take me to the heaven of your bed."

"Hand that Rocks the Cradle," conversely, I totally read as being about a smothering, abusive, incestuous relationship. It's fairly ambiguously written and I can see why some people read it otherwise. At any rate, I don't see why it bothered the press on such a personal level, it's obviously fiction since none of the band members had ever been married or had children, but eh.

(Final note on "Reel;" I love the repetition of "I do" at the end - has the resonance of an imaginary marriage...could do without the glingle-glingle-glingle piano after "like a butterfly," but that's just a personal pet peeve)

[Sister]

I'd say that the most interesting thing about this song in particular is that it's so clearly written from the perspective of someone who is bi-sexual. I was slightly amazed the first time I listened to the song that he so explicitly states both a "young man" and a "young woman" as the objects of his desires. He used to be so vague and ambiguous but lately it seems that he wants to specify gender, whether it be female ("the woman of my dreams/she never came along") or male ("then he motions to me/with his hand on my knee"), in a mucher higher degree than he used to.


For some reason, I always felt that the "young woman" was somehow forced into the song, for a balance, but doesn't really belong there.

Disclaimer: I do not support the theory that everything he writes is about men, it is just this particular song that gave me the feeling.

[King Leer]

I remember when Alma Matters came out there were critics who liked it simply for it's sparkling pop sound, whereas others loathed the vulgar pun. It wasn't obviously unless you read the lyric sheet (not unlike "I am the son and the heir...") Clever clogs.

[wolve]

I have a question about "Now My Heart If Full", does anybody know what the line
"Your Father cracks a joke
And in the usual way
Empties the room "
has got to do with the rest of the song?

[Kewpie]

I have a question about "Now My Heart If Full", does anybody know what the line
"Your Father cracks a joke
And in the usual way
Empties the room "
has got to do with the rest of the song?

Because the father cracks a joke which makes the narrator and his friends go out, as simple as that.

[nightandday]

For some reason, I always felt that the "young woman" was somehow forced into the song, for a balance, but doesn't really belong there.

Disclaimer: I do not support the theory that everything he writes is about men, it is just this particular song that gave me the feeling.
Well, for some reason, I didn't feel that way, and I really don't see why I would? You could just as well claim the other way round with just as much support for your claim in the song... which means, no support.

The "bisexuality" that he deliberately chooses to express in the opening lines is nothing new - and yes, I am delibrately putting the word in quotation marks to point out that the term should be loosely used. I always though that 'young man' and 'young woman' in this case were used in generic meaning; they are not any particular man or woman. The terms can apply to anyone in his potential audience rather than just people he knows personally. I don't think that 'young man' and 'young woman' are objects of desire, but that he simply states that he wants to be the object of their desire (adoration, love, admiration...) The only conclusion I could possibly draw about his sexuality from that song (and even that applies only if you assume that he regards people addressed in the song as possible romantic/sexual partners, rather than just referring to a star/audience relationship) would be that he still maintains that he is 'open to ideas' - which is very, very old news and hardly a subject for a renewed discussion. It's a very simple song really, the title says it all.

[nightandday]

From Les Inrockuptibles interview, 1995 -

Q: You're not always free from any reproach: in Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning, we find a cruelty in your voice, in your words. A nastiness which seems not to be autobiographical.

M: It's a song inspired by real facts but what's the use of talking about it since the girl in question in this song sank a long time ago ? (smile) Yes, I can be cruel. Yes, I can be as cruel with women as with men.

We have all learned a valuable lesson here - do not go sailing/swimming with moz and ESPECIALLY do not attempt to fish in the presence of the mozmeister. That is all.
Can you post the entire interview? I've read so many interesting quotes from it, but I've never seen the actual interview.

as for Lifeguard Sleeping... it really seems to be one of the most ambiguous Morrissey songs. I never heard cruelty in his voice... To me, 'doesn't she see, he's had such a busy day...' seemed sarcastic, and I thought he was actually sympathizing with the girl. "she swam too far against the tide...", "she was nobody's nothing" sounded ironic and very sad. I thought it was one of the songs written about a female character who he empathizes/partly identifies with (as "November..." or "This Night Has Opened My Eyes"). I was surprised to learn that Johnny Rogan and others all seem to see it in a completely opposite way.

But that quote is quite interesting... Because his implication in that interview seems to be that there was an actual girl that he himself metaphorically let 'sink'... However, I believe it's still possible to sympathize with people even while you are the one who has hurt them...

It's one of those song that I wouldn't claim to have a definite reading of, it can be interpreted in so many different ways.

[nightandday]

"Songs That Saved Your Life" (I think it was, or maybe Rogan) says "Girlfriend In A Coma" is a play on a subgenre of 50s rock and roll dealing with the death of a loved one under tragic circumstances. Youth cut short, etc. It's also a witty companion piece with the next song on the album ("Stop Me"), both songs describing the singer's basic ambivalence. Toward one woman or women in general is hard to tell.
I would say that it's simply another one of Morrissey's sad fictional tales - his little kitchen-sink dramas about unhappy and doomed relationships ("Jeane", "Girl Afraid"). So you might say that it does indeed represent ambiguous or plainly pessimistic attitude to love/relationships.

It amazes me what some people manage to read into the simplest of Morrissey's lyrics. I'm surprised that nobody ever managed to interpret the line "You're the one for me, fatty" as being some kind of big statement on homosexuality :p

[Jones]

"Lifeguard Sleeping" is an interesting song for me as I've never seen an interpretation that I agree with. I think, unusuallly for Morrissey, it's a metaphorical song. It also plays upon a theme that recurrs a lot in his work which (for whatever reason) people seem to want to ignore, the Girl or Woman of your Dreams.

In this song the Lifeguard is really the one that needs saving but he chooses to ignore the one person that could do so and lets her sink instead, just because he can't make the effort to respond to her.

The last line makes this explicit "When he awoke, The sea was calm, And another day passes like a dream", in other words, his life could have been very different, but he chose to carry on with the old one, which is no real life at all.

[nightandday]

Swallow on my neck...and why he left out some of the lyrics in the lyric book to it? morrissey's relationship with someone here i'm guessing
There was some talk about it very recently in this thread: http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=65489&page=3&highlight=swallow

There's a lot of confusion and ambiguity in the song, don't you think? People have talked about the ambiguity between 'swallow on my neck' as 1) fake tattoo or/and 2) a lovebite. Some of the lines seem to point out to the latter, but it's interesting that Morrissey did have a fake tattoo of swallow on his hand, at least, at the time. I would love to know the symbolism of the swallow...But I think that tattoos (an old fascination: 'tattoed boy from Birkenhead') stand for something as well: my guess is, the (desired or actual) transformation from someone who lives their life in a cerebral way, to a person who can easily express themselves in a physical way (which probably includes sex, though it's not limited to it).

There is, however, another ambiguity about it that nobody ever mentions. If the song is about a relationship, who with? There seem to be two people mentioned in that song - "you" and "he" are clearly not the same person.

"I am a simple man
Not much to gain or lose
And I don't know why I held out
So long for me and you

Until he drew
A swallow on my neck
And more, I will not say
He drew
A swallow, deep and blue
And soon, everyone knew

(...)

You have been telling me
That I have been
Acting childish
Foolish, ghoulish and childish
Oh, I know, I know, I know !
I know, I know, I know
But I don't mind
I don't mind
I don't mind "

[nightandday]

"Lifeguard Sleeping" is an interesting song for me as I've never seen an interpretation that I agree with. I think, unusuallly for Morrissey, it's a metaphorical song. It also plays upon a theme that recurrs a lot in his work which (for whatever reason) people seem to want to ignore, the Girl or Woman of your Dreams.

In this song the Lifeguard is really the one that needs saving but he chooses to ignore the one person that could do so and lets her sink instead, just because he can't make the effort to respond to her.

The last line makes this explicit "When he awoke, The sea was calm, And another day passes like a dream", in other words, his life could have been very different, but he chose to carry on with the old one, which is no real life at all.
I always thought it had to be metaphorical, I just wasn't completely sure about the meaning, but your interpretation is the first I really find satisfying.

You are right about the recurring theme... Somehow people always ignore it when discussing "Southpaw". Do you have the impression that it's one of the Smiths/Morrissey songs where he is addressing himself as "you"?

The great thing about many of Morrissey's songs is that you often can't simply point out who is narrator or who they are addressing, it's not clear if Morrissey is somewhere in the song or what his attitude to his characters is... yet he might be identifying and projecting parts of himself in one or more of them. "Maladjusted" is a perfect example - I love that song, but I've never been sure what it means, even though I've read some interesting interpretations. Still, the closing lines are so haunting... maybe because he literally sings them in two difference voices. Do you think that he might be singing them from two points of view, maybe switching from one person to another?

"Maladjusted, maladjusted
never to be trusted
never to be trusted"
(falsetto: )
"There's nothing wrong with you
there's nothing wrong with you..."

[nightandday]

"Hand that Rocks the Cradle," conversely, I totally read as being about a smothering, abusive, incestuous relationship. It's fairly ambiguously written and I can see why some people read it otherwise. At any rate, I don't see why it bothered the press on such a personal level, it's obviously fiction since none of the band members had ever been married or had children, but eh.

I agree. But the most amazing thing about it is that there are actually quite a few people who - completely disregarding the ominous atmosphere of the song and the ambiguity of the lines such as "there never need be longing in your eyes/as long as the hand that rocks the cradle is mine", not to mention the last lines - see it as a beautiful and moving address of a devoted parent to a child! It's interesting that there seems to be such a thin line between what is seen as a devoted parental love, and what is seen as smothering /abusive relationship.

Incidentally, Morrissey's own "explanation" (in an a 1985 interview, Melody Maker) is probably the strangest one he's ever given about a song:

"RO: Were you being slightly flippant when you said your love songs were written from total guesswork?
No, I was being absolutely serious. Which isn't really funny.

RO: Where did a song like 'Hand That Rocks The Cradle' come from?
Well, that comes from a relationship I had that didn't really involve romance. So if we're talking about romance, well, I don't really know that much about it. But in other things, I'm quite capable of making an observation."

http://foreverill.com/interviews/1985/trial.htm

[Worm]

"The Hand That Rocks The Cradle" is addressed from a father to a child. The usual doses of ambiguity and vagueness should not detract anyone from the strongest, simplest reading of the song. Could there be incest involved? Certainly. Is there some mysterious meaning about the child who saved his life, and whatever it was that he returned to? I suppose.

But the most prominent theme in the song is the fierce protectiveness and melancholy tenderness the father feels for the child. The relationship described is a reversal of the usual one where the father skips out on the mother and child. The father's feelings for the child are not supposed to be felt by most men, hence it's another example of Morrissey smudging the lines between genders, or "male liberation" if you like. "The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world" is William Ross Wallace's poem extolling the greatness of mothers. The Smiths song turns that on its head.

The idea that this is a grown-up relationship doesn't stand up to lines about shadows shimmying on ceilings and a wardrobe towering like a beast of prey, two distortions that would only frighten a young child. The song describes a pretty common situation: frightened child, storm outside, "monsters in the closet" so to speak, additional emotional distress of a missing parent. It's closer to Edgar Allan Poe than Dr. Spock, but that shouldn't deceive anyone into thinking this is an elaborate riddle concealing abuse of any kind. The "smothering" emotions of the father are not suffocating the child, they are meant to lead one indirectly to the darkness the song doesn't name-- that is, whatever caused the mother to leave.

And whatever that was, it wasn't incest. Mothers don't pack up and leave their children with a sexual predator unless they're dead. I guess the mother could be dead, but that takes the song into the realm of the macabre, all the more so if you believe that the father may have murdered her (or wished for her murder, as in a "Lolita" scenario). Such a reading is possible but it seems way out of character for Morrissey to have written a song like that.

Morrissey's explanation of the song about being a relationship that didn't really involve romance, to my ears, is meaningless. It's an evasion.

[sonof77]

I don't really know, but I always assumed Black-eyed susan was about a nihilistic trouble-maker who wears a lot of black eyeliner. One of those annoying goth chicks who doesn't believe in anything and always has an attitude. While Moz seems to be slagging her off the whole song, at the end he seems to be comparing himself with her "we were the first". I have no idea who it's about, but the LASID website suggest Siouxsie Sioux

so, there's my two cents, for what it's worth. I hope you weren't expecting an intelligent literary answer, b/c I'm too lazy for that on a saturday morning :)

As for a song I've never "got", I choose the endlessly vague, I Know Very Well How I Got My Name It's about Oscar and is a steal as well

[nightandday]

"The Hand That Rocks The Cradle" is addressed from a father to a child. The usual doses of ambiguity and vagueness should not detract anyone from the strongest, simplest reading of the song. Could there be incest involved? Certainly. Is there some mysterious meaning about the child who saved his life, and whatever it was that he returned to? I suppose.

But the most prominent theme in the song is the fierce protectiveness and melancholy tenderness the father feels for the child. The relationship described is a reversal of the usual one where the father skips out on the mother and child. The father's feelings for the child are not supposed to be felt by most men, hence it's another example of Morrissey smudging the lines between genders, or "male liberation" if you like. "The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world" is William Ross Wallace's poem extolling the greatness of mothers. The Smiths song turns that on its head.

The idea that this is a grown-up relationship doesn't stand up to lines about shadows shimmying on ceilings and a wardrobe towering like a beast of prey, two distortions that would only frighten a young child. The song describes a pretty common situation: frightened child, storm outside, "monsters in the closet" so to speak, additional emotional distress of a missing parent. It's closer to Edgar Allan Poe than Dr. Spock, but that shouldn't deceive anyone into thinking this is an elaborate riddle concealing abuse of any kind.

Morrissey's explanation of the song about being a relationship that didn't really involve romance, to my ears, is meaningless. It's an evasion.
I never thought it could be about adult relationship. It is clearly about someone expressing their love for a child.

But I don't think one can disregard the ominous atmosphere and ambiguity; it's not that obvious in the printed lyrics, but I think it is very present in the recorded song. While there might not be any sexual abuse involved, the narrator is walking the thin line between devoted and selfless love, and overbearing, suffocating (you might say, very selfish) love. The narrator is saying: I will protect you from all the horrors of his world, dear child; and the world is, indeed, a frightening place. "a piano plays in the empty room/there'll be blood on the cleaver tonight (...) The wardrobe towers like a beast of prey").

"There never need be longing in your eyes
as long as the hand that rocks the cradle is mine".

These lines could mean:

1) As long as I am by your side, dear child, you will never lack anything - you will always be loved and cared for.

or:

2) As long as I am the one who takes care of you, you will never need anyone else...you should never need anyone else!

Even if the lyrics weren't written with such ambiguity in mind, they can very easily be read that way.

There are several other lines that have to, at least, make a listener think - such as "Your mother, she just never knew... I did my best for her, I did my best for her"?

[Worm]

2) As long as I am the one who takes care of you, you will never need anyone else...you should never need anyone else!

Fair enough, but you're using the word "never" in reference to "the hand that rocks the cradle"-- the child of course will one day not be in a cradle. Unless Morrissey is using the phrase "the hand that rocks the cradle" as a loose tag for total and perpetual domination, I don't see it as so controlling.

The song is creepy, I'll admit, but again I think you have to imagine what's actually happening in the song. A parent is comforting a frightened child. The overtones of gothic terror are used to heighten the song's emotional power, which I think is really a reflection of the father's state of mind in the absence of the mother. Also, I think the song is a dramatic monologue, the way a parent whispers words that a baby will not actually understand (except tonally), and therefore the words hardly carry a veiled warning not to try and escape the father's sphere of domination.

I'm going on a more general rule of thumb, which you also apparently have, which is that Morrissey's lyrics are usually best interpreted as simply as possible. A highly specific interpretation of the song which says that this is about a peculiar, abusive father/child relationship isn't necessarily wrong, but it's far less compelling than the more obvious one, which is that Morrissey was writing about a father's emotions in a more typically female role. If the father were a weird, perverted, or emotionally suffocating person it would tend to invalidate the idea of a father raising a child alone.

Finally, the dark, almost macabre tone of the song's words can also be attributed to something else you mentioned, the thin line between love and obsession, tenderness and violence, etc. "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle" is sung about a strong familial bond the same way that "Hand In Glove" is sung as "it's us against a world that wants to tear us to shreds". Morrissey's idea of love is always a life and limb affair.

[Worm]

"I Know Very Well How I Got My Name" is autobiographical. I'm not aware that it's stolen from anything. If it is I'd love to know from whence it was ripped.

About the line "When thirteen years old/Who dyed his hair gold", Morrissey once explained that he had done just that, and after a few attempts to get the color out, which resulted in even more kaleidoscopic hair problems, he was sent home from school. Curiously missing from that explanation were the beatings, scoldings, and other forms of punishment we're supposed to believe he incurred on a daily basis. I'm sure the journalist left those out for space considerations.

[Jones]

Morrissey's explanation of the song about being a relationship that didn't really involve romance, to my ears, is meaningless. It's an evasion.

Seems perfectly logical to me if he is talking about the relationship he had with his father. Again, it's a recurring theme. "The Youngest was the Most Loved" is all about smothering parents who won't allow the world to harm their children, but end up harming them more by overprotecting them.

[Worm]

Seems perfectly logical to me if he is talking about the relationship he had with his father. Again, it's a recurring theme. "The Youngest was the Most Loved" is all about smothering parents who won't allow the world to harm their children, but end up harming them more by overprotecting them.

If it's about his father, how does that square with his father not being a part of his life, and when around, telling Morrissey to "grow up, be a man/And shut [his] mealy mouth?"

Also, I guess what's coming to the fore here is the question of the child's age. Interpretations vary based on how old we think the child is; the song becomes less obsessional and overbearing the younger the child is. I happen to think the child in the song is an infant. Therefore, gothic atmospherics notwithstanding, the father's devotion is not unhealthy and in fact somewhat normal given his sense of desertion.

[nightandday]

Seems perfectly logical to me if he is talking about the relationship he had with his father. Again, it's a recurring theme. "The Youngest was the Most Loved" is all about smothering parents who won't allow the world to harm their children, but end up harming them more by overprotecting them.

If it's about his father, how does that square with his father not being a part of his life, and when around, telling Morrissey to "grow up, be a man/And shut [his] mealy mouth?"


I'm glad I am not the one who brought up Morrissey's relationship with his parents in the discussion - last time I mentioned it (in "People and things who influenced Moz" thread), everyone seemed very upset and accused me of accusing his mom and dad of being bad parents. :(

It's unlikely to be about his father, because, as Worm said, their relationship was nothing like the one described in the song; quite the opposite, they seem to be insufficiently close.

If we accept Jones' autobiographical explanation, I have to notice that the relationship described in the song is much more similar to Morrissey's relationship with his mother.

(Please don't shoot me.)

[Worm]

Hm. I can see how some of the imagery might have come from memories of growing up with his mother, but with Jacqueline around I don't know that Mrs. Morrissey was quite so single-minded in her devotion.

But having said that, I think Morrissey's mother lurks around a great number of Smiths songs. Until I found out that the original lyric was "there is a light in your eyes" and the blather about "hope", I had always interpreted "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out" to be about Morrissey's mother. And although I am not one to ignore strong contrary evidence, I'm afraid I still do.

[Christine]

Sorry to change the song but wasn't 'Handsome Devil' accused of being about underage rape which was very bizarre and a real shame. It's about sex and lust yes, but it sounds like it's sex or the longing for it with different people at different times. Someone who you liked at school, someone who asked you the time. And it's lust which is always forceful and the lyrics are brilliantly playful and provocative. One of those Moz songs which ends in a nice conclusion "There's more to life than books you know, but not much more - that is the essence of the song..."

[Still Tired]

"The Hand That Rocks The Cradle" is addressed from a father to a child. The usual doses of ambiguity and vagueness should not detract anyone from the strongest, simplest reading of the song. (...)

The idea that this is a grown-up relationship doesn't stand up to lines about shadows shimmying on ceilings and a wardrobe towering like a beast of prey, two distortions that would only frighten a young child. The song describes a pretty common situation: frightened child, storm outside, "monsters in the closet" so to speak, additional emotional distress of a missing parent. It's closer to Edgar Allan Poe than Dr. Spock, but that shouldn't deceive anyone into thinking this is an elaborate riddle concealing abuse of any kind. The "smothering" emotions of the father are not suffocating the child, they are meant to lead one indirectly to the darkness the song doesn't name-- that is, whatever caused the mother to leave.

Morrissey's explanation of the song about being a relationship that didn't really involve romance, to my ears, is meaningless. It's an evasion.

Now I can actually still imagine this song genuinely being about an adult relationship, it was my first impression I gained after not listening to the song very carefully, it has to be said, but I can still see how that interpretation can work. As I've mentioned elsewhere before, I thought 'hand that rocks the cradle' was a phrase being used purely in the metaphorical sense to describe the position of the dominant partner in the relationship. I can perfectly picture this couple sat together in a darkened room with the rain outside and the narrator whispering the words in a slightly menacing and threatening manner, and the 'childish' threats of the "bogey-man" and "wavering shadows" are again, metaphorical- just the exaggerated dangers of the outside world perhaps. And writing this now it occurs to me it perfectly describes the descending cloud of depression maybe- of the darkness of the night bringing out the monsters, but don't worry because the day-light will come and I'll be here to face another day with you. So it could be describing the demons inside his partners head and his pledge to stand by them through it. I don't know, I am being one of those annoying people reading too much into it?!

It's incredibly interesting to hear Morrissey describe it as being about a relationship that didn't involve romance, I hadn't read that before. Maybe he did just say that to calm the child abuse theories, but I can genuinely see a rather uncomfortable, strange and dominating relationship being portrayed that isn't about love, but a fervent devotion of some kind.

So to consider the latter part of the song, this is where some of my ideas fall down I guess, I can almost see a shift in the direction of the voice. Is this now the internal thoughts we're hearing? They seem rather oblique and much harder to interpret in a defined narrative. Originally I thought the part about 'all too soon I did return' after talking about the child, meant that he was considering/ had another child- too simplistic?! It almost sounds to me like he's moved on from a past relationship, one that clearly ended badly and now this one is going down the same misguided path with another child involved.

Ok, now I'm tying myself up in knots so I'll stop! I just love this song to bits; there can never be too many theories to consider in my eyes :)

[unruly boy]

Read 'Songs That Saved Your Life' and make you own conclusions.

THTRTC is a beautiful song by the way.

[nightandday]

Hm. I can see how some of the imagery might have come from memories of growing up with his mother, but with Jacqueline around I don't know that Mrs. Morrissey was quite so single-minded in her devotion.

But having said that, I think Morrissey's mother lurks around a great number of Smiths songs. Until I found out that the original lyric was "there is a light in your eyes" and the blather about "hope", I had always interpreted "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out" to be about Morrissey's mother. And although I am not one to ignore strong contrary evidence, I'm afraid I still do.
I am sure that she does lurk around many songs, as you said... It's often as obvious as can be - apart from all the Smiths songs that explicitly address 'mother' or mention someone's relationship with their mother (I Know It's Over, Shakespeare's Sister, The Queen Is Dead, Rubber Ring) or even Morrissey solo songs (Southpaw), there's also the early version of What Difference Does It Make. The first time they played the song, at Hacienda in February 1982, the last line wasn't "Oh, my sacred one", but "Oh, my sacred mother". It's also interesting that, according to "Songs That Saved Your Life", the first version of I Want The One I Can't Have contained a reference to matricide instead of a murder of a policeman.

But There Is A Light That Never Goes Out?! :eek: It never crossed my mind, and I don't believe so now. That song is about someone who is unhappy at home ("I never, never want to go home/because I haven't got one anymore"; "because it's not my home, it's their home, and I'm welcome no more") and who dreams that the person that they're in love with would help them get free of parents's influence and to start living their own life - "take me out tonight, where there's music and there's people who are young and alive", "because I want to see people and I want to see life". (I know I've practically quoted Morrissey's explanation of another song, "Shakespeare's Sister"). I really don't see why or how the line "There is a light that never goes out" would be interpreted as being about Morrissey's mother. BTW, I was surprised that Simon Goddard said that he always thought that line was about an actual light, until he learned that the original line was "there is a light in your eye"; I always thought the 'light' meant something like love or hope.

[nightandday]

Sorry to change the song but wasn't 'Handsome Devil' accused of being about underage rape which was very bizarre and a real shame. It's about sex and lust yes, but it sounds like it's sex or the longing for it with different people at different times. Someone who you liked at school, someone who asked you the time. And it's lust which is always forceful and the lyrics are brilliantly playful and provocative. One of those Moz songs which ends in a nice conclusion "There's more to life than books you know, but not much more - that is the essence of the song..."
It was The Sun that printed some silly story about Smiths songs "condoning paedophilia", but the source of the whole 'paedophilia controversy' was a journalist of The Sounds magazine called Dave McCullough, who was - would you believe it - an early supporter of The Smiths! In summer 1983, he reviewed one of their gigs, and, having misheard the lyrics to some songs, including "The Hand that Rocks...", wrote - as a supposedly positive review(!) - that "most of his word-packed lyrics are about child molestation, and more mature sexual experimentation. (...) The refrain 'Climb upon my knee, Sonny Boy' in another song is used as a child-molesting come on to a seven-year old in a park. This kind of ultra-violent, ultra-funny grime is just what is needed to pull rock'n'roll out of its current sloth". With supporters like these, who needs enemies... :rolleyes: The Sun took it from there, with an article that refered to a song that supposedly 'condoned paedophilia'; they managed to mix up several Smiths songs that they most probably haven't even heard (Handsome Devil, Reel Around the Fountain, and The Hand That Rocks the Cradle). The non-existing 'seven-year old in a park' popped up again in their article, and they claimed that Handsome Devil was about 'sexual molestation of young boys'?! :rolleyes:

Why would anyone read paedophilia in Reel Around The Fountain? Anyone with half a brain could understand that the line "It's time the tale were told of how you took a child and made him old" refers to a loss of innocence (a quite common theme in early Smiths songs), not to the narrator being an actual child. And how did they get the idea that Handsome Devil was about 'molestation of young boys'? It seems that someone heard the line "a boy in the bush is worth two in the hand/I think I can help you get through your exams" and made this connection: sex + presumed school setting ('exams') + the word 'boy' = molestation of schoolboys! They obviously didn't get the sexual double entendre in the line 'a boy in the bush is worth two in the hand' ;) which in itself is hilarious. (Besides, they probably had no idea what 'mammary glands' are. That's what happens when you use complicated words!) The song never mentions anyone's age. So, the argument about paedophilia rested on the mention of exams and scholarly room. Now, I don't know the British school system that well - do kids under 16 even take exams?? But anyway, wouldn't it be more likely that a person taking exams is in their late teens or early 20s?

I agree that Handsome Devil is a celebration of sex and lust. Morrissey said that " 'a boy in the bush' is addressed to a scholar: the message of the song is to forget the cultivation of the brain and to concentrate on the cultivation of the body". I wouldn't say that it's about longing for different people at different times - I think that, out of all of Morrissey's early lyrics, this one really sounds like it's not about any specific person or persons. There is nothing in the song that sounds particularly personal or autobiographical. I think that it's a perfect example of Morrissey's wish to 'write for everybody', as well as to write lyrics that would separate The Smiths from other bands of the time. Therefore he used words that are rarely used in pop music, such as 'mammary glands' or 'conjugal bed', and he deliberately made the genders of people in the song as ambiguous as possible, starting with the use of the adjective 'handsome' in the title: most male bands would not refer to the object of their desire as 'handsome', and many people would jump to the conclusion that 'handsome' must refer to a male, when in fact 'handsome' can also be used for women, particularly if they are striking, statuesque and healthy-looking, rather than cute, childlike and frail-looking ('pretty'). (The usage of 'handsome' for women was more common in 19th century - it's used that way in Jane Austen's novels, for instance.) He also made sure to include all kinds of sexual imagery: S&M ('I crack the whip...'), lines that could be seen as blatantly homoerotic, and those that could be blatantly heteroerotic; and it even seems at times that the narrator is not always of the same gender: 'let me get my hands on your mammary glands' seems to be addressed to a female, but the lines 'a boy in the bush is worth two in the hand/I think I can help you get through your exams' would be more likely to be a come-on made by a female speaking to a male (even though it is possible that it's the other way round).

[nightandday]

Now I can actually still imagine this song genuinely being about an adult relationship, it was my first impression I gained after not listening to the song very carefully, it has to be said, but I can still see how that interpretation can work. As I've mentioned elsewhere before, I thought 'hand that rocks the cradle' was a phrase being used purely in the metaphorical sense to describe the position of the dominant partner in the relationship. I can perfectly picture this couple sat together in a darkened room with the rain outside and the narrator whispering the words in a slightly menacing and threatening manner, and the 'childish' threats of the "bogey-man" and "wavering shadows" are again, metaphorical- just the exaggerated dangers of the outside world perhaps. And writing this now it occurs to me it perfectly describes the descending cloud of depression maybe- of the darkness of the night bringing out the monsters, but don't worry because the day-light will come and I'll be here to face another day with you. So it could be describing the demons inside his partners head and his pledge to stand by them through it. I don't know, I am being one of those annoying people reading too much into it?!

It's incredibly interesting to hear Morrissey describe it as being about a relationship that didn't involve romance, I hadn't read that before. Maybe he did just say that to calm the child abuse theories, but I can genuinely see a rather uncomfortable, strange and dominating relationship being portrayed that isn't about love, but a fervent devotion of some kind.

He didn't really have to say it to calm the child abuse theories, because the interview was in 1985, two years after the child abuse scandal. Those theories must had died down by that time. He could just have said that it was a pure work of fiction.

Here's a bigger chunk from that interview:


"EYF: What's behind the fierce outspokenness against the work ethic in your lyrics?

The realities of work, I think. The realities of being in a situation where you can't choose your employment, which is an awful way to be when you don't have any skills and you have to take what's dished out, take what's available. There's nothing worse in life than having no choice, I think. And this is tolerable, I think, in all areas except unemployment. When you have to take a job, even if it's a job you can mildly stomach, if you have to take it and you have no choice, merely the fact that you have no choice crushes your enthusiasm for doing the job.


EYF: Did your parents cram the work ethic down your throat when you were a child and so you are rebelling against that?
No. I lived with my mother, who didn't. She let me do what I wanted to do. She gave me absolutely full rein to be what I wanted to be, and that was very helpful. But, no... as a direct result of not wanting to take anything, I didn't work for years and years and years...

EYF: So your mother doesn't really resent your observations on your background?
To this day, she's completely behind everything I say.

MM: Does she recognise the things that you write about?
Completely. She dissects them, she completely dissects everything that happens. She reads every single interview. She produces long monologues... she's very, very much involved in what I do. And her's is the only opinion that I really take remotely seriously. So it's quite treasurable.

RO: Were you being slightly flippant when you said your love songs were written from total guesswork?
No, I was being absolutely serious. Which isn't really funny.

RO: Where did a song like 'Hand That Rocks The Cradle' come from?
Well, that comes from a relationship I had that didn't really involve romance. So if we're talking about romance, well, I don't really know that much about it. But in other things, I'm quite capable of making an observation.

RO: An observation, in the way that 'Girl Afraid' seems to be...
Yes. I think 'Girl Afraid' simply implied that even within relationships, there's no real certainty and nobody knows how anybody feels. People feel that just simply because they're having this cemented communion with another person that the two of you will become whole, which is something I detested. I hate that, that implication. It's not true, anyway. Ultimately, you're on your own, whatever happens in life, however you go through life. You die on your own. You have to go to the dentist on your own. It's like all the serious things in life are things that you feel on your own."

http://foreverill.com/interviews/1985/trial.htm


Read 'Songs That Saved Your Life' and make you own conclusions.

THTRTC is a beautiful song by the way.
I've read 'STSYL', but I don't know what you mean. Simon Goddard had nothing particularly interesting to say about meaning of that song.

It is, however, interesting that Morrissey wrote the lyrics much before he met Marr. Richard Boon (the owner of the New Hormones label and manager of The Buzzcocks, who knew Morrissey through Linder) has revealed (I think it was in the "Rise and Fall of The Smiths" documentary) that Morrissey sent him a home demo in 1980, which contained Morrissey singing, without any musical accompaniment, the lyrics that would become THTRTC, to a different melody. I suppose that the melody was probably written by Ian Devine from Ludus, because this biography/liner note http://www.ltmpub.freeserve.co.uk/dsbio.html mentions "Morrissey, who collaborated with Devine on pre- and proto-Smiths material..."

[underdog]

to be a bit off topic........

Worm, is your signature a Propagandhi reference?


Anyway, I was alwasy confused by 'November Spawned A Monster'

[Worm]

That song is about someone who is unhappy at home

I didn't mean that the song was about Morrissey's mother in particular, rather that he wrote it using emotional states borrowed from his own life. Now that I'm offering my interpretation, I should say that I don't regard TIALTNGO as strictly autobiographical. I'm basing my interpretation on the presence of his mother, obvious and less obvious, in many of the Smiths songs, since I think his relationship with her was crucially important to his writing about his adolescence. One other thing: there are one or two interview and lyric snippets which contradict a few of the things I say below. I know what they are and I'm sticking to my guns.

The song is about someone who is unhappy at home, yes, but more than that it's about powerlessness. The person in the song's intense desire to find freedom through a lover who can help him escape from home, even if it only results in the ultimate "release" of death, indirectly reflects the power of whatever it is holding the person back. The strength of our bonds is revealed by the amount of exertion needed to break them.

So why doesn't this person escape? Anyone so charged with passion that he would gladly die beneath the wreck of a ten-ton truck for love's sake shouldn't feel any qualms about asking for whatever he wanted to ask for in that darkened underpass; hatching a scheme to be with the lover on their own, leaving parents, school, and home behind; or, most obviously of all, packing up and leaving home on his own. These would come easy for anyone who was capable of feeling such extreme emotions.

Most likely these forms of escape don't occur to the person because he knows his situation doesn't allow for them. We can assume that the person in the song is a teenager, since not having a car, living at home, and the need to be with young people are teenagerly sort of things. All that would be enough to explain why he doesn't just up and leave. Running away is not something you do lightly. Most kids, no matter how badly they have it, don't run away. They realize they have nowhere to go.

Still, that love! Those passions! That longing to escape! With these burning in one's heart, leaving home, difficult as it may be, seems worth attempting. Morrissey gave us an idea of what such an escape might resemble in songs of leaving home such as "London" and "Half A Person".

Something stronger than these feelings holds him back. TIALTNGO is written from the vantage point of someone who has those tragically romantic longings but also understands that you don't escape the gravitational pull of home that easily. Most teenagers strain to break free of home, family, and everything familiar yet know instinctively that they must, in the end, stay where they are for awhile longer.

No matter how savagely angry I got at my parents, I never stopped living in their home, eating their food, benefiting from their graciousness-- even though at times it is no exaggeration to say I hated my existence. When you're a teenager a sense of life's vast opportunities mingles with the agonizing narrowness of one's horizons: the roads, the street lights, the trees, the houses, and every other hard fact of life that cuts you off from the rest of the world. You're grown up enough to have a will of your own, and you're powerless.

The last thing TIALTNGO is about is some all-consuming romantic passion for another person, even though that is part of the song's content. It's about home. It's about being young, wanting freedom, and knowing you can't have it. It's about that "strange fear" that holds you in place. The light which is not metaphorical but all too real is the light in the window you see when you're a teenager and you come home late at night, the taste of freedom still fresh in your mouth, knowing that you're willingly walking right back into captivity. As he put it two years later:

Home late/Full of hate/Despise the ties that bind

I believe this is why most of the song is about anger, desire, curiosity, and the promise of freedom, but then shifts to a slow fade-out while the song's title is repeated as if to emphasize, in an expression of lovely and tender fatality, that for all those romantic possibilities all endings will be the same.

Morrissey's mother enters into this the way most mothers (and fathers) would in the same situation. The unhappiness of living at home with people whom, after, one still loves. It's universal, but in any attempt to understand it I think it's natural to consider Morrissey's relationship to his mother. Remember that we're talking about a man who was deeply, incurably depressed for many years-- yet never left the warmth of his mother's home until he became famous. He must have felt the bittersweet ambivalence of those late-night homecomings all too often.

Although there are counterpoints to what I've written, I'm partially backed up, I think, by one key person. Derek Jarman understood the lyrics' deeper meaning. His video for the song superimposed the boundlessness of the ocean over a boy lying still, at home, on a bed or a sofa. The imagery perfectly conveys what the song really is: a dream of freedom in the mind of a prisoner all too aware of his cell.

http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/c/01/a2/6f/70_9.JPG

Worm, is your signature a Propagandhi reference?

Dead Kennedys.

[Dave]

time ago I made up an identical thread to this one...and it died...:(

i want to know more about such a little thing...

such a little thing (http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moz/lyrics/bonadrag/suchalit.htm)

They don't mention though the different (little) things people keep between their legs including their brains. In my mind this one was always connected with Sweet and Tender Hooligan, the bicycle chain wielding, possibly illiterate subject of the song, with fumbling politeness. It feels like it's about a real person, to me. The words when I read them don't contain all the information I get when I hear him sing it, if that makes sense.

[Danny]

It's unlikely to be about his father, because, as Worm said, their relationship was nothing like the one described in the song; quite the opposite, they seem to be insufficiently close.

If we accept Jones' autobiographical explanation, I have to notice that the relationship described in the song is much more similar to Morrissey's relationship with his mother.

(Please don't shoot me.)

You really don't know that because Morrissey has never really spoken about his relationship with his parents. Where did you get that information from?

[Danny]

So why doesn't this person escape? Anyone so charged with passion that he would gladly die beneath the wreck of a ten-ton truck for love's sake shouldn't feel any qualms about asking for whatever he wanted to ask for in that darkened underpass; hatching a scheme to be with the lover on their own, leaving parents, school, and home behind; or, most obviously of all, packing up and leaving home on his own. These would come easy for anyone who was capable of feeling such extreme emotions.

Most likely these forms of escape don't occur to the person because he knows his situation doesn't allow for them. We can assume that the person in the song is a teenager, since not having a car, living at home, and the need to be with young people are teenagerly sort of things. All that would be enough to explain why he doesn't just up and leave. Running away is not something you do lightly. Most kids, no matter how badly they have it, don't run away. They realize they have nowhere to go.

Still, that love! Those passions! That longing to escape! With these burning in one's heart, leaving home, difficult as it may be, seems worth attempting. Morrissey gave us an idea of what such an escape might resemble in songs of leaving home such as "London" and "Half A Person".

Something stronger than these feelings holds him back. TIALTNGO is written from the vantage point of someone who has those tragically romantic longings but also understands that you don't escape the gravitational pull of home that easily. Most teenagers strain to break free of home, family, and everything familiar yet know instinctively that they must, in the end, stay where they are for awhile longer.

No matter how savagely angry I got at my parents, I never stopped living in their home, eating their food, benefiting from their graciousness-- even though at times it is no exaggeration to say I hated my existence. When you're a teenager a sense of life's vast opportunities mingles with the agonizing narrowness of one's horizons: the roads, the street lights, the trees, the houses, and every other hard fact of life that cuts you off from the rest of the world. You're grown up enough to have a will of your own, and you're powerless.

The last thing TIALTNGO is about is some all-consuming romantic passion for another person, even though that is part of the song's content. It's about home. It's about being young, wanting freedom, and knowing you can't have it. It's about that "strange fear" that holds you in place. The light which is not metaphorical but all too real is the light in the window you see when you're a teenager and you come home late at night, the taste of freedom still fresh in your mouth, knowing that you're willingly walking right back into captivity. As he put it two years later:

Home late/Full of hate/Despise the ties that bind

I believe this is why most of the song is about anger, desire, curiosity, and the promise of freedom, but then shifts to a slow fade-out while the song's title is repeated as if to emphasize, in an expression of lovely and tender fatality, that for all those romantic possibilities all endings will be the same.

Morrissey's mother enters into this the way most mothers (and fathers) would in the same situation. The unhappiness of living at home with people whom, after, one still loves. It's universal, but in any attempt to understand it I think it's natural to consider Morrissey's relationship to his mother. Remember that we're talking about a man who was deeply, incurably depressed for many years-- yet never left the warmth of his mother's home until he became famous. He must have felt the bittersweet ambivalence of those late-night homecomings all too often.

Although there are counterpoints to what I've written, I'm partially backed up, I think, by one key person. Derek Jarman understood the lyrics' deeper meaning. His video for the song superimposed the boundlessness of the ocean over a boy lying still, at home, on a bed or a sofa. The imagery perfectly conveys what the song really is: a dream of freedom in the mind of a prisoner all too aware of his cell.

http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/c/01/a2/6f/70_9.JPG



Dead Kennedys.

Ever considered There is a Light might be about a married man having an affair?

[Worm]

Ever considered There is a Light might be about a married man having an affair?

Clever! Adds an entirely different and interesting twist to the song, except I doubt a married man would need to ask anyone to "take him out tonight". But there's nothing in the song to disprove it's a married man. Or a married woman for that matter.

[Jose]

, except I doubt a married man would need to ask anyone to "take him out tonight".


Maybe if he's in an unhappy marriage?? :rolleyes:

[Worm]

Maybe if he's in an unhappy marriage?? :rolleyes:

If this poor unhappy soul can't jump in his own car and either (a) leave for greener pastures (b) visit a good divorce lawyer or (c) go cruising for some action on the side, then Morrissey has created a really pathetic character. Also, if his home is now "their home", it implies a wife and at least one child, in which case he feels so isolated and cut off he imagines that even his own spawn are against him. I think such a man could only be the "adult child" in the "sadistic grown-up domination" interpretation of "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle". This would, for me at least, cut into the dignity of the song; henceforward I would dream of a David Mamet tough guy slapping the son of a bitch in the face and telling him "Coffee's for closers!"

[Jones]

If this poor unhappy soul can't jump in his own car and either (a) leave for greener pastures (b) visit a good divorce lawyer or (c) go cruising for some action on the side, then Morrissey has created a really pathetic character. Also, if his home is now "their home", it implies a wife and at least one child, in which case he feels so isolated and cut off he imagines that even his own spawn are against him. I think such a man could only be the "adult child" in the "sadistic grown-up domination" interpretation of "The Hand That Rocks The Cradle". This would, for me at least, cut into the dignity of the song; henceforward I would dream of a David Mamet tough guy slapping the son of a bitch in the face and telling him "Coffee's for closers!"

Morrissey's work is full of stories about the inadequacies of men, from "Stop Me" to "Nobody Loves Us".

[Sunbags]

Can you post the entire interview? I've read so many interesting quotes from it, but I've never seen the actual interview.

as for Lifeguard Sleeping... it really seems to be one of the most ambiguous Morrissey songs. I never heard cruelty in his voice... To me, 'doesn't she see, he's had such a busy day...' seemed sarcastic, and I thought he was actually sympathizing with the girl. "she swam too far against the tide...", "she was nobody's nothing" sounded ironic and very sad. I thought it was one of the songs written about a female character who he empathizes/partly identifies with (as "November..." or "This Night Has Opened My Eyes"). I was surprised to learn that Johnny Rogan and others all seem to see it in a completely opposite way.

But that quote is quite interesting... Because his implication in that interview seems to be that there was an actual girl that he himself metaphorically let 'sink'... However, I believe it's still possible to sympathize with people even while you are the one who has hurt them...

It's one of those song that I wouldn't claim to have a definite reading of, it can be interpreted in so many different ways.

Sorry about the delay...................busy, busy, busy! Here ya go my dear!

http://www.oz.net/~moz/quotes/lesinroc.htm

[Roma De Moz]

I have a question about "Now My Heart If Full", does anybody know what the line
"Your Father cracks a joke
And in the usual way
Empties the room "
has got to do with the rest of the song?

Morrissey is using the image of the family unit as a metaphor for something more autobiographical. The whole line has an almost funeral-like tone to it; whenever I hear those lines I imagine a grave faced family dressed in black, uncomfortably seated in the front room of the 'house' and akwardly shuffling away from the useless joking of 'the Father', who has attempted to lighten the mood after the death of a loved one, or some other traumatic event. I think Morrissey is inhabiting the role of 'Father', and 'everyone in the house' are the listeners, fans, critics etc, who 'empty the room' because once again, after all these years, they are still having to listen to the wry, self deprecating whinings of an old man. If this is true, Morrissey is sti