why everybody here is so hostile to Johnny Marr?
Andy Rourke, Mike Joyce?

We all know that lot of artistic natures are oversensitive with a very sharpened sense of self-consciousness, self-relevance, self-pity and self-aggrandizement... read books & articles about beatles, velvet undergrounds, kurt cobain, sex pistols, verve... lot of creative natures didn't end as friends... in opposite, as bitter enemies...

OK, so morrissey for whatever reasons, right or wrong, hates his ex-drummer and ex-bass guitar, and is barely speaking to marr... but why we have to be so hostile to them...

WHAT WRONG DID MIKE JOYCE AND ANDY ROURKE TO YOU PERSONALLY, TO [randomly pointing into phone book] Mr Jack Brown or Maribel Rodrigues or GI Joe?

For me, all Smiths are part of the magic.
I have nothing but thanks from the depth of my heart to both Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce...

as of morrissey, i'm not very familiar with his solo output except bona drag and viva hate, but my personal advise to him would be...

"you are a great poet of you generation... whatever wrong other Smiths did to you, please be above all this, show your full-hearted forgiveness... a lot of us think that you and marr have to try to reunite... you both are much older and wiser now then at 1989... one could only wonder what fruit would your collaboration bear..."

I love Johnny Marr and have followed his career up to the present. I love Electroinic and I love The Healers. I like everything he has done with other groups too. Beth Orton is a personal favorite of mine. Johnny is sacred to me and I would like anything he did artisticly. As far as Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce, they haven't really continued thier careers as well as Johnny Marr has, but I'll always have a place in my heart for them too and I think they got a raw deal. I totally support them and I think they deserved more out of the royalties. The Smiths wouldn't have been the same without them and I don't care if Morrissey said they were 'as replacable as broken down lawnmower parts'. It goes without saying that Morrissey is irreplacable, but I don't think it's fair for him to say that about them. Nobody knows if the Smiths would have been what they were without Andy or Mike. Including Morrissey. But they were what they were and I'm happy about that so I pay Andy and Mike their due respect. As far as a reunion between Moz and Marr, keep dreaming, it's not going to happen. Of coarse I would be on top of the world to see them back together, but I've given up on that dream and love both of their solo careers. The Smiths was a phenomenon that will always be in our hearts.....

> why everybody here is so hostile to Johnny Marr?
> Andy Rourke, Mike Joyce?

I've got love, respect, and appreciation for all the
members of The Smiths. = )

I wish they still liked each other. = (

..people feel a loyalty to and an affinity with Morrissey moreso than with any of the other three. Maybe it's because he was the one who wrote the songs, fronted the band and was the spokesperson and obviously an extremely intelligent, well-read and funny man..

or maybe it's because it's he's really, really good at manipulating people...

or then again, maybe it's because people actually do feel that Joyce and Rourke wronged him.

Personally I have nothing against them, but I do find myself siding with Morrissey more than the others. I like Johnny Marr, but didn't Moz say in an Irish interview last year that during the *cough* court case *cough* Johnny 'turned his back on him' or words to that effect?

When someone wrongs you and it cuts so deeply, it's hard to forgive and forget. I'd love to see Moz & Johnny working together again, but as for the other two, I'm frankly not that bothered.

i agree with what you've said for the most part. i don't have a problem with johnny at all (i'm just not a big fan of his new stuff). i don't mind mike and andy that much, but i do hate it when people try to make them out to be saints. i know i say a lot of stuff about mike especially, but i do think he was wrong to sue. but i am not heartless. he is a good drummer and he used to be pretty goodlooking. (one of my bi-curious guy friends said he'd "do" mike.)