i cant even believe i read comments by some of you out there saying that moz's band was shite, except for dean! dean looks the most passion-less and awkward of them all! his drumming is what makes it feel boring, not the rest of the band. and they HAVE been playing the same songs for ten years like at a cabaret-- i doubt they get to choose what they play. if they could, im sure theyd like to do some of the 24 new songs theyve got written for a change. and youre really just *crazy* if youre seriously plotting how to get in touch with morrissey to try and make him the see the light of how terrible his band is. do you think he would care what you think? he would get rid of them if he had a problem with them, not if you made a big petition demanding that he fire them. this isnt a brady bunch episode where you write him a letter like marcia with davey jones, and then he takes you seriously and makes your wish come true that he find a new band, all cos your his beloved fans. i think he *likes* the guys in his band, and theyre his friends. and if you got every fan to send moz a letter telling him how much they suck, he'd probably get depressed that his fans are so stupid, but i doubt he would say, "gee, those kids on the internet might have a point. i think ill go fire all my friends, cos theyre not good enough for me."
yeah the shows are a little more tame than they were 10 years ago but come on--
theyre all older. they seem a bit calmer, including morrissey, but you cant be so dumb as to confuse that with boredom. the songs dont sound lacking except for maybe dean's drumming. but its funny that you all let the fact that the others dont *look* terribly excited about it make you think that theyre making you bored. what's making you *feel* bored is dean's drumming. he seems like a nice enough guy--i dont think he should be sacked over it, but if anything needs some work its his drumming, and im sure he'll improve with a little time, too. its also really stupid to say that they should feel all honored and priveleged to play with morrissey, so they should fly through the roof during shows from excitement. theyre people and morrissey is just a person. they arent peasants and morrissey is the god they have to worship and feel less important than. theyre people, and theyre very nice and very talented people.

if you think morrissey is so great anyway, you should at least appreciate the fact that he *wants* to have them around for whatever reason, & that should be good enough. i dont think he's brainwashed or blind or in denial. they are all good at their instruments, theyre good songwriters, the look right, theyve got attitude (even tho they dont jump through hoops for you or grin the whole time or burst into tears during sad songs), and theyre all very nice people. everybody's saying dean's the best one because he's a new face, but you just like how he looks or something (he's younger). the fact is that people age physicially, like morrissey has, and they behave differently, too. you see these people every few years when there's a tour and you expect them to be exactly the same as when you saw them in 1992 or 1997, but even morrissey isnt as hyper onstage as before. and i dont think its cos he's bored--he tours because he wants to and he feels like it and he likes it--he's just getting older, but he's still into and so are the band. nobodys saying moz should retire because he doesnt whip his shirt around and wave flowers like in the smiths days. you just want a visual show cos moz doesnt put one on anymore himself. the tiredness and dragging you hear is dino being a little afraid to just play--but he just needs to get settled in. but the sound of the band has not gotten more boring or less intense, or any such thing. maybe they dont smash guitars or jump off the stage a lot anymore, but nobody's cooler than Gary, Boz & Alain. theyre a quieter cool these days, but i thought youd all be the first to agree that being reserved doesnt necessarily make you boring or uninterested/ing. do you all bounce off the walls and cheer and skip everytime youre excited? and dont forget that touring is tiring--read boz's tour diary and see how excited and cheerful youd look after being on that schedule for months and months AND playing the same songs year after year.... morrissey himself gets sick & has to cancel at least 4 million times on each tour, every year since he started with the smiths! and even still, at the end of the day when you meet one of the band, theyre friendly and down to earth and they have a chat with you (i suppose maybe not if youre acting like an asshole) about the concerts and what a good time they had. sad that you think badly of them just because they dont do backflips for you and theyre over 30...

I hope he keeps them for good.

I totally agree!!!

Oh dear, where to begin? Let's start by asking if you've seen any of the shows on the tour, because if you haven't you can fuck off right now as you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't agree with you about Dean, except in that he will surely improve as time goes on. I'm not a great judge of drummers talent-wise, but I can tell you that he was the only person on the stage apart from Morrissey who looked like he was happy to be there, and a little enthusiasm goes a long way.

No one here has said "Hm, the shows felt kinda boring, but I'm not sure why", they have been very specific about a lack of passion/interest/enthusiasm. No one has said they wanted them to jump around or act wild and crazy, but how about just acting like they want to be up there playing those songs? How about treating it like it's more than just a job to them? A little effort? This is Morrissey's life, he loves it, and it's not fair for them to water the whole thing down by being disinterested and playing HALF-HEARTEDLY. And for example, Earl Graphite made his comments in reference to listening to the bootleg of the Fresno show, and HEARING the lack of involvement on the band's part, so he obviously wasn't complaining that the band weren't running all over the stage and smashing things up. And Dean could be drumming his heart out and beating those drums to a pulp and it wouldn't have made the music seem passionate or alive, not with Alain and Boz so utterly lifeless. At least Boz did a bit from time to time, but Alain was like the walking dead, not just how he looked but how he was playing. Totally devoid of feeling.

You say they're older now, but so is Morrissey, and his passion hasn't dimmed, it shines more brightly than ever, and that comes through despite the fact that he isn't as sprightly or physically energetic as he used to be. You don't have to do backflips to show enthusiasm. Age is no excuse for what they're doing.

You also say they've been playing these same songs for ten years like a cabaret act, well funnily enough they have NEVER PLAYED the majority of these songs before in their lives. Of the 21 or so songs they've played so far on the tour, 12 are songs I don't think they've ever played, 4 they haven't played often or recently, and only 5 are songs they have played quite a lot. And they really don't even tour that much anyway, it's been 2 years since the last one, and they've only been on the road for just over 9 weeks so far, that's nothing! Some bands do world tours that go on for years! And out of about 70 days, they've done 33 shows, that's over half the time off, not bad when you consider most of us work all day at least five days a week. Ooo, they've done about 50 hours work in the last month and a half, no wonder they can't be bothered during the shows! Well, considering Morrissey can do it, they could do it too. I work almost that many hours in a bloody week!

And of course they don't get to choose what they play - but it's their job to get up there with Morrissey and give him the support and backing he deserves, that's what they get paid for. If they are sulking because they want to play different songs, or only songs they wrote, well that's fucking pathetic, and they need to either quit or grow up. If they want to call the shots they can go off and do their own thing without Morrissey - and without the money, fame, and prestige that goes with him. They can decide which of their crappy songs to play to 25 people in their local pub if that would mean more to them.

All this about how nice they are, how would you know anyway? So what if they're nice for five minutes with the fans, I care more about how they treat Morrissey, and they are doing him a real disservice on this tour. He is singing his heart out and the band just isn't behind him. They are letting him down! And I'm so glad you think they "look right" - as if that matters! I find that insulting to Morrissey's music to even consider how they look.

As for them being "friends", open your eyes. Has Morrissey EVER mentioned any of them as friends? Do they ever hang out together apart from an occasional meal or trip to a record store while on tour? According to MorrisseyTour Morrissey goes everywhere with his assistant and a security guard, but not the band. He leaves the shows before the band even come off stage and doesn't see them after the show. He doesn't go to sound checks with them. He doesn't even tell them what's going on, never mind share decisions with them. I'm not even convinced the band are still friends with each other! Someone asked Boz the other day when Alain wrote Irish Blood English Heart, and he said he had no idea, that the first time he'd even heard the song was earlier this year. But we know that Morrissey has had that song for almost 5 years, if Alain and Boz were close at all, surely they'd hear the songs the other had written? Or at least know of their existence?

It all seems like a big sham to me, and I think the thin veneer has cracked and been cast off by the band. They don't give a shit about Morrissey or his songs or career, which is fine, but if that's the case they should just go off and do whatever it is they'd rather be doing, and Morrissey can find some people who appreciate him and can inject some life into the shows rather than draining all the life out of it.

personally, i think they're pretty poor. does anyone actually look at them?

> Oh dear, where to begin? Let's start by asking if you've seen any of the
> shows on the tour, because if you haven't you can fuck off right now as
> you don't know what you're talking about.

> I don't agree with you about Dean, except in that he will surely improve
> as time goes on. I'm not a great judge of drummers talent-wise, but I can
> tell you that he was the only person on the stage apart from Morrissey who
> looked like he was happy to be there, and a little enthusiasm goes a long
> way.

> No one here has said "Hm, the shows felt kinda boring, but I'm not
> sure why", they have been very specific about a lack of
> passion/interest/enthusiasm. No one has said they wanted them to jump
> around or act wild and crazy, but how about just acting like they want to
> be up there playing those songs? How about treating it like it's more than
> just a job to them? A little effort? This is Morrissey's life, he loves
> it, and it's not fair for them to water the whole thing down by being
> disinterested and playing HALF-HEARTEDLY. And for example, Earl Graphite
> made his comments in reference to listening to the bootleg of the Fresno
> show, and HEARING the lack of involvement on the band's part, so he
> obviously wasn't complaining that the band weren't running all over the
> stage and smashing things up. And Dean could be drumming his heart out and
> beating those drums to a pulp and it wouldn't have made the music seem
> passionate or alive, not with Alain and Boz so utterly lifeless. At least
> Boz did a bit from time to time, but Alain was like the walking dead, not
> just how he looked but how he was playing. Totally devoid of feeling.

> You say they're older now, but so is Morrissey, and his passion hasn't
> dimmed, it shines more brightly than ever, and that comes through despite
> the fact that he isn't as sprightly or physically energetic as he used to
> be. You don't have to do backflips to show enthusiasm. Age is no excuse
> for what they're doing.

> You also say they've been playing these same songs for ten years like a
> cabaret act, well funnily enough they have NEVER PLAYED the majority of
> these songs before in their lives. Of the 21 or so songs they've played so
> far on the tour, 12 are songs I don't think they've ever played, 4 they
> haven't played often or recently, and only 5 are songs they have played
> quite a lot. And they really don't even tour that much anyway, it's been 2
> years since the last one, and they've only been on the road for just over
> 9 weeks so far, that's nothing! Some bands do world tours that go on for
> years! And out of about 70 days, they've done 33 shows, that's over half
> the time off, not bad when you consider most of us work all day at least
> five days a week. Ooo, they've done about 50 hours work in the last month
> and a half, no wonder they can't be bothered during the shows! Well,
> considering Morrissey can do it, they could do it too. I work almost that
> many hours in a bloody week!

> And of course they don't get to choose what they play - but it's their job
> to get up there with Morrissey and give him the support and backing he
> deserves, that's what they get paid for. If they are sulking because they
> want to play different songs, or only songs they wrote, well that's
> fucking pathetic, and they need to either quit or grow up. If they want to
> call the shots they can go off and do their own thing without Morrissey -
> and without the money, fame, and prestige that goes with him. They can
> decide which of their crappy songs to play to 25 people in their local pub
> if that would mean more to them.

> All this about how nice they are, how would you know anyway? So what if
> they're nice for five minutes with the fans, I care more about how they
> treat Morrissey, and they are doing him a real disservice on this tour. He
> is singing his heart out and the band just isn't behind him. They are
> letting him down! And I'm so glad you think they "look right" -
> as if that matters! I find that insulting to Morrissey's music to even
> consider how they look.

> As for them being "friends", open your eyes. Has Morrissey EVER
> mentioned any of them as friends? Do they ever hang out together apart
> from an occasional meal or trip to a record store while on tour? According
> to MorrisseyTour Morrissey goes everywhere with his assistant and a
> security guard, but not the band. He leaves the shows before the band even
> come off stage and doesn't see them after the show. He doesn't go to sound
> checks with them. He doesn't even tell them what's going on, never mind
> share decisions with them. I'm not even convinced the band are still
> friends with each other! Someone asked Boz the other day when Alain wrote
> Irish Blood English Heart, and he said he had no idea, that the first time
> he'd even heard the song was earlier this year. But we know that Morrissey
> has had that song for almost 5 years, if Alain and Boz were close at all,
> surely they'd hear the songs the other had written? Or at least know of
> their existence?

> It all seems like a big sham to me, and I think the thin veneer has
> cracked and been cast off by the band. They don't give a shit about
> Morrissey or his songs or career, which is fine, but if that's the case
> they should just go off and do whatever it is they'd rather be doing, and
> Morrissey can find some people who appreciate him and can inject some life
> into the shows rather than draining all the life out of it.

yeah ive seen 4 so far and the band sounded good and they didnt look bored, and i still think youre wierd for making it like morrissey is this god and people have to lick his arse and swoon and bow everytime they see him. i dont know that theyre best friends, but id say when youve worked with someone for so long by choice, whether on & off or not, youre friends--nobody's stuck with anybody. i dont think travelling in the same tour bus and doing everything together is a requirement for a friendship. but for god's sake--even if they arent even that good of friends-- (cos how many people really are his close friends anyway?) morrissey would be an asshole if he fired them out of the blue cos some idiot fan wasnt satisfied with some of their performances. as long as he doesnt hate them (which he mustnt or they *really* wouldnt be around), i think he's probably a decent person to them and i dont think he'd be mean enough to fire them cos someone suggested he might be better off without them. if theyre really so bad, he'll see it on his own and replace them, but i dont think you & your friends need to write him letters like your opinion actually matters. but again, i think you should do it so you can see what a dumb idea it was.
if the band were just doing it as a job, i dont think morrissey would want to work them. i really dont believe that he'd be blind to it for any reason, and i dont believe he's afraid of getting someone better, and i dont believe that he cant find ANYone better. its just that he's perfectly happy with them.

and looking right is very important, morrissey always looks right and im glad.

but really--you dont have to be so concerned with poor naive morrissey, getting used and taken advantage of by those awful bad band members. theyre probably fucking poor anyway! do you really think theyre making so much money that theyre staying because of that? they can probably make just as much as they do in their other unknown bands, except every 4 years when theres a tour they make a bit more. and they certainly dont do it for the fame--please tell me who you know--not counting morrissey fans--that actually knows who the hell any of them are? 3 guys that are into rockabilly, that's who. people just always need to bitch about SOMEthing...

i dont think anybody's being let down or ripped off or used. morrissey doesnt need your advice & protection. are you morrissey's mum?

Yuck, I can't believe you people are having a serious discussion about the band looking good. Have you seen them lately? Blech. Gary looks alright still, but Alain looks like some gross greasy extra from the Godfather, and Boz, well he looks like Mozzer's dad, or maybe Santa Claus on his day off.
Maybe Moz chose them for their looks in the first place, but that just can't be why he's keeping them. Maybe he should start a bonus scheme to encourage them. They could be financially penalised for the following offences:

-£10 per night for beards (worst offender - BB)
-£15 per night for general greasiness (worst offender - AW)
-£50 per night for sounding just like David Beckham (AW!)
-£2 per night, per pound of weight gained since band began
-£5 per night if you forgot your contact lenses (BB)
-£3 per night for making VERY SILLY FACES whilst drumming (D-O)
-£3 per night for looking like a scummy little scroat of a drug dealer trying to sell speed to kids outside school (GD) (that's Gary Day, not Girl Drowning!)

This scheme would suit Moz very well because the band would end up owing him a small fortune, thus helping to offset the costs of touring.