http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=1237

when will people learn that very few chicks can rock? and certainly none of those chicks can!

anyone got anything to say about the crappy women "rockers" who are raping the airwaves right now?

> http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=1237
> when will people learn that very few chicks can rock? and certainly none
> of those chicks can!

> anyone got anything to say about the crappy women "rockers" who
> are raping the airwaves right now?

They should give 'em the hook and play THE DISTILLERS more. Now there's a band with a woman who can ROCK.

The only one I like on that list is Tori Amos. At least she doesn't have to wear a men's tie to try and be different. ::rolls eyes::

justine frischmann can rock as well. and i like sharlene spiteri. i even like *gulp* some madonna.

but fuck all these lame chicks who claim to be real artists. for instance, i know despise avril lavigne more than britney spears. at least britney admits to being a product of the industry.

here's hoping that morrissey comes out with an album that blows these floozies into the water - much like they had to blow so many record execs to get their contracts.

> anyone got anything to say about the crappy women "rockers" who
> are raping the airwaves right now?

Do you live in the U.S.? The vast majority of rock radio stations have effectively boycotted female musicians. Poe and Melissa Etheridge, among others, have spoken about this.

Mindy: not to get personal or attack you in any way, but I can't believe as a woman you'd be in favor of this. It's blatant sexism and discrimination.

by women rockers, i mean people like avril lavigne and michelle branch who play glorified pop songs and pass them off as punk or rock. i wasnt referring to real artists such as those you mentioned.

i'm sorry if, by avril lavigne, you thought i meant musicians, because near as i can tell, that aint music. it's crap. and it does get a lot of airplay in the states.

i did not mean that every single person on the list sucked, but fact is, most of them do. come on. i defy you to tell me that britney spears and mandy moore are rockers!

and fact is, most chick music does suck. the female bands i like are few and far between. it isnt because they are women. i do not mean to say that they cant play their instruments (although, in the case of avril lavigne, this is true), but rather, the types of songs they sing say nothing to me about my life. hearts, flowers, and candy are barfy. unless of course, the flowers are gladiolas and morrissey is throwing them whilst singing his beautiful lyrics.

avril lavigne makes me want to break something beautiful. too bad her nose doesnt qualify.

Mindy said:
> i defy you to tell me that britney spears and
> mandy moore are rockers!

Bejaysus, no! I wouldn't say they're rock or even music. BS and MM, and their pop ilk of both genders, are the result of music industry greed and cluelessness. Unfortunately, we all suffer.

> and fact is, most chick music does suck. the female bands i like are few
> and far between. it isnt because they are women. i do not mean to say that
> they cant play their instruments (although, in the case of avril lavigne,
> this is true), but rather, the types of songs they sing say nothing to me
> about my life. hearts, flowers, and candy are barfy. unless of course, the
> flowers are gladiolas and morrissey is throwing them whilst singing his
> beautiful lyrics.

OK, fair enough. I just wish you hadn't equated the pop tarts' awfulness with their gender.

well i apologise, but even some "serious" female artists arent attractive to me. jewel and sarah mclachlan, for instance - yeah, they have some talent, but theyre lyrics still almost always revolve around hackneyed themes.

> justine frischmann can rock as well. and i like sharlene spiteri. i even
> like *gulp* some madonna.

Are Elastica over? Their last album wasn't bad, but no one seemed to notice!

Who's this Spiteri person?

I don't mind Madonna either. Not exactly a fan, but I don't change the radio channel when she's on (unless it's "Don't Cry For Me Argentina"). In fact, she's one of the few on mainstream radio I can stomach anymore. "Beautiful Stranger" is one of my favorite songs of the past few years.

It's really funny to me that some of these new young pop girls keep saying Madonna is their role model, their hero, etc. Then why is their music so damn boring in comparison? There's a lot of bad things about Madonna, but she was never a bore, and she knew how to make catchy, fun songs of some distinction.
Christina Aguilera is a fucking fool. Her songs are actually IMPOSSIBLE to sit through even one time. And everyone says "oh, she has a great pipes!" Who the fuck cares! She doesn't know how to sing at all. People are looking for heart and soul more than a good pipes! All these stupid slick songs where she's oversinging with her retarded vocal acrobatics, there's no way I can feel anything at all. I want all of her handlers and producers to fucking be brutally murdered so people are afraid to ever do it again. Why doesn't that sniper stop shooting random victims and pick some worthy targets!!!

> but fuck all these lame chicks who claim to be real artists. for instance,
> i know despise avril lavigne more than britney spears. at least britney
> admits to being a product of the industry.

I wanna strangle Avril with her tie.

> here's hoping that morrissey comes out with an album that blows these
> floozies into the water - much like they had to blow so many record execs
> to get their contracts.

sharlene spiteri is the lead singer of texas - one of the better pop bands of the last decade and a half. check out "say what you want," "summer son," and "inner smile."

and you're right about madonna. when she was straight pop, it had charm - much like the early beatles records. and now her music generally has something to say and if not, it at least sounds interesting. one request: stop acting madge. it's been said before, but seriously. stop ruining your husband's directorial career. guy: go back to making your mockney movies, NOW.

christina aguilera: talentless hag. oh wow, she can riff in between lyrics. big deal. people are like "wow, she's got soul - for a white girl (who thinks she's latina)." the only good thing about christina is that, at least she admits she's a whore - unlike britney.

i know i bitched about mandy moore earlier, but i actually find her quite loveable. her music is crap, but she has a good attitude and she's a fair actress and her voice isnt THAT bad. and this is embarrassing, but when i saw how cute she looked with short hair, i was inspired to finally cut off my long locks (donating them to a charity that makes wigs for young cancer patients).

and i repeat, avril lavigne is retarded. she's a little prep dressed up in what a prep thinks skater punks wear. oh wow, she wears black eyeliner. so edgy. oh my god. she wears bangle bracelets and studded cuffs. so cutting edge. she also doesnt know how to curse properly.

That's a bunch of bullshit. I don't know what people are thinking when they give Sleater-Kinney all the high praises. They're not BAD, I have DIg ME Out and Call The Doctor. I like a few tracks on each, while the rest all justy sound the same. I had another one - All Hand on the Bad One - and it ewas so fucking boring and monotonous, I literally threw it into the Cuyahoga River.

I suspect a lot of Politically Correct overrating is going on with this band. They have the right politics, they come from Olympia, they are all women, we're gonna say they're the best band in America because we want a band with those credentials to be the best band. Grrl Power! Yippee! Whatever. It seems to me it's sexist to hype something just because you wanna support "grrl power."
It's like all that really bad "gay" art that winds up in museums primarily *because* it's "gay" art in the "proper" "PC" manner, and it lets the audience prove they are "down" with the "proper" political views.

Anyway, first of all, the main singer (Corin?) is awfully damn grating. Seocnd of all, they have not put out a great ALBUM from start to finish yet. There's always like 2 good songs and a lot of bullshit filler (haven't heard the last two). And thirdly, the lyrics, if you just listen instead of studying the lyric SHEET, don't really say much to me on most tracks. It's like it's mostly a bunch of personal shit from her diary. You know how when you listen to a Morrissey song, they all say something pretty fucking clearly. "LAst Night I Dreamt That Someday Loved Me" or "Hang the the freaking DJ." I instantly hear what he's saying, I instantly get a goose bump that somebody is saying such things so simply and directly that people can universally connect with. "I'm dreaming of a time when the English are sick to death of Labour, and Tories, and spit upon the name of Oliver Cromwell...." I'm feeling that, man! Hits you like a freaking 2X4.

When I play some of these Sleater-Kinney songs, it sounds like a whole lot of words that just are...WORDS... coming at me without connecting. I shouldn't have to listen to a song over and over and break out the lyric sheet. I don't care enough to. It's not my job as a listener to do that much work to understand whatever the fuck is rattling around in someone's head. It's like nobody knows how to write a song anymore.

And, oh God, I look at an interview with Sleater-Kinney, and what the fuck are they on about? "Yes we're still anti-capitalist, that's what we're still about." LOL! Did they study economics in Olympia? I'm not looking for politicians in my CD collection, you dingbat. I'm not gonna follow Carrie Brownstein into a revolution. I'll go to a freaking library and read someone who knows what the hell he's talking about, thank you. I don't think she knows a fucking thing except rock clubs. Please. If there's one thing I'm so sick to death of, it's all these Marxist nitwits who infiltrated and took over punk rock. I think punk is about freedom and individuality, baby. Where are the punk bands who will put down the leftist readers and quit using stupid fashion politics to get approval from their stupid "scene"? I DON'T CARE. Give me a good song or go away. And if you're anti-capitalist and you've got a good song, cool, then I guess you should give it to me for FREE.

> sharlene spiteri is the lead singer of texas - one of the better pop bands
> of the last decade and a half. check out "say what you want,"
> "summer son," and "inner smile."

I think I've heard Texas, but I'm not sure. It sounds so familiar. I'll look into it, thanks for the tip.

> and you're right about madonna. when she was straight pop, it had charm -
> much like the early beatles records. and now her music generally has
> something to say and if not, it at least sounds interesting. one request:
> stop acting madge. it's been said before, but seriously. stop ruining your
> husband's directorial career. guy: go back to making your mockney movies,
> NOW.

Yeah, you can't take MAdonna in your arms and love her, like you can Morrissey.
It's a different kind of thing. But she's not bad. And hell, she's been out there for my entire life, so it's like, her various phases bring memories to me of the various periods of my life.

> christina aguilera: talentless hag. oh wow, she can riff in between
> lyrics. big deal. people are like "wow, she's got soul - for a white
> girl (who thinks she's latina)." the only good thing about christina
> is that, at least she admits she's a whore - unlike britney.

Did you see the SNL skit making fun of her on Saturday?

I love the way Christina moves her hand around when she's going into her ridiculous vocal acrobatics, as if her hand controls her voice.

> i know i bitched about mandy moore earlier, but i actually find her quite
> loveable. her music is crap, but she has a good attitude and she's a fair
> actress and her voice isnt THAT bad. and this is embarrassing, but when i
> saw how cute she looked with short hair, i was inspired to finally cut off
> my long locks (donating them to a charity that makes wigs for young cancer
> patients).

I don't really know Mandy's music. All I know about her is she is always hostings shit on MTV, and in this music magazine called The Blender she was saying she never ever swears. Aw, what a goody goody. Britney is the one I find the least vile. I caught myself humming "I'm not that Innocent" once or twice....

> and i repeat, avril lavigne is retarded. she's a little prep dressed up in
> what a prep thinks skater punks wear. oh wow, she wears black eyeliner. so
> edgy. oh my god. she wears bangle bracelets and studded cuffs. so cutting
> edge. she also doesnt know how to curse properly.

"Edgy." God I hate that word. I was horrified to see Morrissey using it in a recent interview, but I think it was the interviewer who brought it up. I can just see the yuppie record label boobs sitting around a table taling about "edgy."
Avril's rocket to stardom shows the whole conspiracy in the record biz. Before her songs came out, everything was in motion to force her on the world. There were corporate web sites going on and on about her, and how the "industry" was pointing to her to make them a lot of money. There were bookings on shows like Regis Philbin before anyone had actually heard her. Nobody in the general public ever asked for her, yet her she is, everwhere you turn.

didnt see the skit.

i think britney is the most vile of the poptarts if only because she started the trend. she irritates me to no avail.

as for avril, i find her interviews hilarious. she talks about how she didnt start listening to music until recently and how she's never bought a cd in her life. she thinks the goo goo dolls are the epitome of good music - punk music for that matter! it's like, honey, the goo goo dolls havent been cool or anywhere near punk since like their second album. i read one interview where she was asked who her musical influences were and she was like "uh i dont really have any. uh the beach boys maybe?" what a tool.

i also like how a couple months ago, she was like "oh lordy, i dont swear. im a church girl." now she tries to rock the word fuck. aint happening.

final condemnation: she thinks sum 41 are cool.

i know this is immature, but sometimes you just gotta bitch about annoying teen pop sluts!

> by women rockers, i mean people like avril lavigne and michelle branch who
> play glorified pop songs and pass them off as punk or rock. i wasnt
> referring to real artists such as those you mentioned.

> i'm sorry if, by avril lavigne, you thought i meant musicians, because
> near as i can tell, that aint music. it's crap. and it does get a lot of
> airplay in the states.

> i did not mean that every single person on the list sucked, but fact is,
> most of them do. come on. i defy you to tell me that britney spears and
> mandy moore are rockers!

> and fact is, most chick music does suck. the female bands i like are few
> and far between. it isnt because they are women. i do not mean to say that
> they cant play their instruments (although, in the case of avril lavigne,
> this is true), but rather, the types of songs they sing say nothing to me
> about my life. hearts, flowers, and candy are barfy. unless of course, the
> flowers are gladiolas and morrissey is throwing them whilst singing his
> beautiful lyrics.

What is your definition of "rock"? For me it's can they play instruments *well* and produce good music? Madonna never played any instruments and therefore I consider her more Pop than Rock. Pop stars of today like Aguilara and Spears, etc. are total crap. Today's women pop and rock stars are afraid to take risks because they are industry puppets. But in the 60's, 70's and 80's many women DID ROCK, and if you can't recall any, then your scope of music is truly limited. Your statement may have SOME good points to support it, but it leads me to believe you are very young and not paying attention.

> That's a bunch of bullshit. I don't know what people are thinking when
> they give Sleater-Kinney all the high praises. They're not BAD, I have DIg
> ME Out and Call The Doctor. I like a few tracks on each, while the rest
> all justy sound the same. I had another one - All Hand on the Bad One -
> and it ewas so fucking boring and monotonous, I literally threw it into
> the Cuyahoga River.

> I suspect a lot of Politically Correct overrating is going on with this
> band. They have the right politics, they come from Olympia, they are all
> women, we're gonna say they're the best band in America because we want a
> band with those credentials to be the best band. Grrl Power! Yippee!
> Whatever. It seems to me it's sexist to hype something just because you
> wanna support "grrl power."
> It's like all that really bad "gay" art that winds up in museums
> primarily *because* it's "gay" art in the "proper"
> "PC" manner, and it lets the audience prove they are
> "down" with the "proper" political views.

> Anyway, first of all, the main singer (Corin?) is awfully damn grating.
> Seocnd of all, they have not put out a great ALBUM from start to finish
> yet. There's always like 2 good songs and a lot of bullshit filler
> (haven't heard the last two). And thirdly, the lyrics, if you just listen
> instead of studying the lyric SHEET, don't really say much to me on most
> tracks. It's like it's mostly a bunch of personal shit from her diary. You
> know how when you listen to a Morrissey song, they all say something
> pretty fucking clearly. "LAst Night I Dreamt That Someday Loved
> Me" or "Hang the the freaking DJ." I instantly hear what
> he's saying, I instantly get a goose bump that somebody is saying such
> things so simply and directly that people can universally connect with.
> "I'm dreaming of a time when the English are sick to death of Labour,
> and Tories, and spit upon the name of Oliver Cromwell...." I'm
> feeling that, man! Hits you like a freaking 2X4.

> When I play some of these Sleater-Kinney songs, it sounds like a whole lot
> of words that just are...WORDS... coming at me without connecting. I
> shouldn't have to listen to a song over and over and break out the lyric
> sheet. I don't care enough to. It's not my job as a listener to do that
> much work to understand whatever the fuck is rattling around in someone's
> head. It's like nobody knows how to write a song anymore.

> And, oh God, I look at an interview with Sleater-Kinney, and what the fuck
> are they on about? "Yes we're still anti-capitalist, that's what
> we're still about." LOL! Did they study economics in Olympia? I'm not
> looking for politicians in my CD collection, you dingbat. I'm not gonna
> follow Carrie Brownstein into a revolution. I'll go to a freaking library
> and read someone who knows what the hell he's talking about, thank you. I
> don't think she knows a fucking thing except rock clubs. Please. If
> there's one thing I'm so sick to death of, it's all these Marxist nitwits
> who infiltrated and took over punk rock. I think punk is about freedom and
> individuality, baby. Where are the punk bands who will put down the
> leftist readers and quit using stupid fashion politics to get approval
> from their stupid "scene"? I DON'T CARE. Give me a good song or
> go away. And if you're anti-capitalist and you've got a good song, cool,
> then I guess you should give it to me for FREE.

Thank you!

> What is your definition of "rock"? For me it's can they play
> instruments *well* and produce good music? Madonna never played any
> instruments and therefore I consider her more Pop than Rock. Pop stars of
> today like Aguilara and Spears, etc. are total crap. Today's women pop and
> rock stars are afraid to take risks because they are industry puppets. But
> in the 60's, 70's and 80's many women DID ROCK, and if you can't recall
> any, then your scope of music is truly limited. Your statement may have
> SOME good points to support it, but it leads me to believe you are very
> young and not paying attention.

i am so misunderstood. my whole argument is in response to that appalling article in rolling stone and a reaction to what i hear on the radio these days. nothing more nothing less. i am merely commenting on the fact that people consider these people to be artists within the rock genre, when they clearly are not. furthermore, pop and rock blend together in many cases. would you say the smiths are rock and morrissey is pop because morrissey doesnt play any instruments? (does the fact that a solo artist doesnt play instruments mean their music isn't rock? what was janis joplin?) i dont have a problem with "pop" as long as it's quality (i.e. not britney or fucking avril lavigne). i know that some women can and do rock and have rocked in the past and will rock in the future. i'm just trying to say that most artists being passed off as rock stars these days are about as far from being a rock star as i am.

maybe i should have made the context a little clearer. jesus. but in spite of everything, i stand by my assertion. i dont like most chick rock from any decade. but that's a personal preference. i still acknowledge that over the years, there has been some chick rock that truly has rocked.

> It seems to me it's sexist to hype something just because you
> wanna support "grrl power."

Who said anything about supporting "grrl power?" Their sex is irrelevant. At any rate, it's no more sexist than the average pop boffin who will freely bear her cleavage to get radio play and doesn't resist the star system.

> It's not my job as a listener to do that
> much work to understand whatever the fuck is rattling around in someone's
> head.

Right. So you never had to work to understand what the fuck is rattling around in Morrissey's head? You got 'em all on the first listen?

Thought so...

>I'm not gonna follow Carrie Brownstein into a revolution. I'll go to a >freaking> library and read someone who knows what the hell he's talking about, >thank you.

What HE's talking about, eh? And a few paragraphs before you were ranting about sexism.

Your free-associating, rambling opinion is yours, of course, but if you're going to make sweeping statements without even listening to THE THREE MOST RECENT RELEASES BY THE ARTIST YOU ARE CRITICISING, then you truly ARE an oaf.

Go on; slag me with some sophomoric sexual innuendoes. Ho fucking hum.

Cheers,

Jamie

i liked "complicated" but that one about the skater guy who becomes a rock star was lame.

you have to admit that its very difficult being female and trying to do anything in music, and this sort of attitude of "wahhh i hate chick music" exemplifies what any woman is already up against if she's trying to do something.

chick bands or bands with chicks that are cool and didnt resort to sucking off record execs: breeders, sonic youth, cyndi lauper, the bangles, the go-gos...sinead o'connor, elastica, texas...

i dont ask much of chick musicians. just that they dont suck. am i too demanding? i ask the same of any artist, male or female.

> i am so misunderstood. my whole argument is in response to that appalling
> article in rolling stone and a reaction to what i hear on the radio these
> days. nothing more nothing less. i am merely commenting on the fact that
> people consider these people to be artists within the rock genre, when
> they clearly are not. furthermore, pop and rock blend together in many
> cases. would you say the smiths are rock and morrissey is pop because
> morrissey doesnt play any instruments? (does the fact that a solo artist
> doesnt play instruments mean their music isn't rock? what was janis
> joplin?) i dont have a problem with "pop" as long as it's
> quality (i.e. not britney or fucking avril lavigne). i know that some
> women can and do rock and have rocked in the past and will rock in the
> future. i'm just trying to say that most artists being passed off as rock
> stars these days are about as far from being a rock star as i am.

> maybe i should have made the context a little clearer. jesus. but in spite
> of everything, i stand by my assertion. i dont like most chick rock from
> any decade. but that's a personal preference. i still acknowledge that
> over the years, there has been some chick rock that truly has rocked.

After I thought about my response about the musicians who play instruments verses ones who don't, I realized that was fallacious on my part. You are right, I'll retract that. But it seems to me that you are tossing out the baby with the bath water just because of your resentment toward "people" considering these artists to be categorized in the rock genre when they shouldn't. Do you not like female rock stars because they are mislabeled or because you think they aren't "rock" capable and/or untalented? Maybe the reason you are "so misunderstood" is because you are unclear. It seems as if you are saying two different things. So if you don't think women are talented enough musicicans then just say so but don't blame the fucked up music industry and other things that are out of their control.

i think that most of the female artists passed off as musicians these days suck and do not deserve the title. yes, i feel many are mislabeled, but i also feel like many of the ones who arent mislabeled are just plain untalented. many but not all. i dont know how much clearer i can get?

> as for avril, i find her interviews hilarious. she talks about how she
> didnt start listening to music until recently and how she's never bought a
> cd in her life. she thinks the goo goo dolls are the epitome of good music
> - punk music for that matter! it's like, honey, the goo goo dolls havent
> been cool or anywhere near punk since like their second album. i read one
> interview where she was asked who her musical influences were and she was
> like "uh i dont really have any. uh the beach boys maybe?" what
> a tool.

OMG, the Goo Goo Dolls are one of my ultimate most hated bands! You've given me flashbacks to that horrid video where the lead singer is rolling around on a chair and looking thru all those telescopes. It makes me sick that females find him dreamy and "oh so deep"!!!!!!!

1)he's ugly
2)he's ugly
3)he writes crappy songs for the soundtracks of movies that star meg ryan (who i wish would just fuck off)

what's to like?

> i think that most of the female artists passed off as musicians these days
> suck and do not deserve the title. yes, i feel many are mislabeled, but i
> also feel like many of the ones who arent mislabeled are just plain
> untalented. many but not all. i dont know how much clearer i can get?

Bingo! You win a star for clarity.