> really? is this something new? i booked on-line via a company like that
> once and i still didn't pay until i got there.

No, it's not new. Many times the special rate packages include these clauses. Damn I feel so sorry for all these people that can't get their money back. Most of us cannot afford to throw money down the drain like this.

We all know that this type of disappointment is part of being a Morrissey fan. Yet we always want to believe that this time will be different. Or maybe it only matters when you're the one getting burned.

The problem in a nutshell is that Morrissey is a guy who has never had to take responsibilty for his actions. From the time he was young there was always someone to take the brunt of things for him. Someone else always steps up to the plate and takes on his problems. His mother, Johnny Marr..the list goes on..

And it's not even the money.. it's this utter disregard time and again that is getting people so riled up.

And while I would like to see him at least offer up some kind of public apology, he will no doubt address the issue as something that was beyond his control. It always is. Morrissey always has a scapegoat. Morrissey is always the victim.

> No, it's not new. Many times the special rate packages include these
> clauses. Damn I feel so sorry for all these people that can't get their
> money back. Most of us cannot afford to throw money down the drain like
> this.

> We all know that this type of disappointment is part of being a Morrissey
> fan. Yet we always want to believe that this time will be different. Or
> maybe it only matters when you're the one getting burned.

> The problem in a nutshell is that Morrissey is a guy who has never had to
> take responsibilty for his actions. From the time he was young there was
> always someone to take the brunt of things for him. Someone else always
> steps up to the plate and takes on his problems. His mother, Johnny
> Marr..the list goes on..

> And it's not even the money.. it's this utter disregard time and again
> that is getting people so riled up.

> And while I would like to see him at least offer up some kind of public
> apology, he will no doubt address the issue as something that was beyond
> his control. It always is. Morrissey always has a scapegoat. Morrissey is
> always the victim.

If you don't like it, leave.

> If you don't like it, leave.

I should leave because I don't kiss the ground he walks on and gobble up every crumb he throws with an eager smile? I'm intelligent enough to understand the man's personality. Unlike you, I am able to seperate the man from the music. I choose to be honest with myself rather than make excuses for him. Besides he's already mastered that art, he doesn't need our help.

Frankly, I'm sick of people who will stand up for this man beyond all reason. Just listening to some of you, it's repulsive. Anyone with a functioning brain should be disappointed in him. Put down your Morrissey bible for a moment and actually think about his actions over the years. You may come to a new understanding.

And for your information, you can frequent a Morrissey site, buy his records, enjoy them, and still think Morrissey needs a personality overhaul.

> I should leave because I don't kiss the ground he walks on and gobble up
> every crumb he throws with an eager smile? I'm intelligent enough to
> understand the man's personality. Unlike you, I am able to seperate the
> man from the music. I choose to be honest with myself rather than make
> excuses for him. Besides he's already mastered that art, he doesn't need
> our help.

I don't kiss the ground he walks on. I consider myself realistic.
I know that as an individual, I mean absolutely nothing to Morrissey.
If I buy his records I mean something. If I buy a ticket to his show
or a T-shirt or a mug or condoms then I mean something. Morrissey
doesn't know me. He doesn't know my name. To him, I am a complete
stranger.

That is the same for The New York Yankees who I saw play
in the World Series in Arizona last year. As a fan, I tried to get
them to give me a ball and what not but they didn't. If there were
no fans, there would be no baseball, right? Wrong. It would still
be there, it just would be played for free or maybe some people would
pay to play.

So if Morrissey had zero fans would he still continue to write
music? Probably. It's what he does. He's just lucky enough that
he gets to make money doing while most people don't.

You are no different than someone who thinks he can do no wrong
in that you too have put him on a pedistal of expectation. You
just have the opposite reaction as them.

Since he isn't living up to your expectations you blame him.
Does this apply to baseball as well? I used to like The Yankees
but they went and lost the world series and didn't apologize to
me so screw them! Kinda silly.

> Frankly, I'm sick of people who will stand up for this man beyond all
> reason. Just listening to some of you, it's repulsive. Anyone with a
> functioning brain should be disappointed in him. Put down your Morrissey
> bible for a moment and actually think about his actions over the years.
> You may come to a new understanding.

I never had a Morrissey bible. In fact I have had a lot of criticisms
and disappointments over the years, specifically with material.

I have no idea what it takes to put on a tour of this magnitude.
All he has done to provoke such negativity is cancel a couple shows
and reschedule a handful. I hear tour rescheduling and cancellations
on the radio all the time. This is no different except you have
created expectations which are not reasonable. You want all tours
and all shows to go off without a hitch, ever. If that is not
true, then you are definitely acting that way.

> And for your information, you can frequent a Morrissey site, buy his
> records, enjoy them, and still think Morrissey needs a personality
> overhaul.

That is true. They are seperate things. What I don't understand is
why people get so upset over something that was never directed at
them. I think there should be a balance between loving him and what
he does and hating him and what he does.

Please forgive any spelling errors. No time to proofread.

> I have no idea what it takes to put on a tour of this magnitude.
> All he has done to provoke such negativity is cancel a couple shows
> and reschedule a handful. I hear tour rescheduling and cancellations
> on the radio all the time. This is no different except you have
> created expectations which are not reasonable. You want all tours
> and all shows to go off without a hitch, ever.

But you have to admit this happens to Morrissey a bit more than average?
Then you have to ask yourself why..

> That is true. They are seperate things. What I don't understand is
> why people get so upset over something that was never directed at
> them.

I agree with you that some people are acting incredibly hateful, beyond reason certainly. I think everyone's anger is a little more complicated, though. Because this happens so often it leads one to believe Morrissey is awfully careless with that which affects his fans. He knows the level of devotion, people flying in from other countries, yet once again things have fallen apart. It makes one wonder and it pisses people off. I really do believe it's understandable.

What annoys me most about the whole thing is people getting pissed on for speaking their mind and for being angry. All while Morrissey is being coddled and given the benefit of a doubt once again. He cannot be blame free every time.

> But you have to admit this happens to Morrissey a bit more than average?
> Then you have to ask yourself why..

It has happened with Morrissey more than I ever would have imagined
but I can't speculate why.

I'm most suspiscious of the 91 tour that was just cancelled
with no notice due to supposed exhaustion on the part of Morrissey.
I know that ticket sales for the next show, Worcester, MA were
dreadful but I don't have any information on the rest of the shows.

The cancelled Carnegie Hall shows were, according to Morrissey,
put on sale without his permission. Is this true? I have no idea.
Something about this point in his career doesn't make sense.
He was getting good air play on top 40 radio and MTV with The
More You Ignore Me... and yet, they didn't support this record
with a tour even though the Kill Uncle and Your Arsenal Tours
went over quite well.

Morrissey did cancel a Birmingham, AL show in 92 so he could
appear on SNL. That was shitty. I think that show was sold out
and he didn't reschedule.

A show in Dublin in 1999 was cancelled due to what Boz said was
the venue told them at the last minute that there was another event
that day and they wouldn't be allowed in to set up the stage until
like 6 or 7pm.

These are just a few examples, there are others but my point is,
some seem legit, some seem sketchy.

The bottom line for me is I know the history and I'm prepared to
accept whatever happens because I know that its not personal,
its business.

> I agree with you that some people are acting incredibly hateful, beyond
> reason certainly. I think everyone's anger is a little more complicated,
> though. Because this happens so often it leads one to believe Morrissey is
> awfully careless with that which affects his fans. He knows the level of
> devotion, people flying in from other countries, yet once again things
> have fallen apart. It makes one wonder and it pisses people off. I really
> do believe it's understandable.

It's certainly a huge disappointment and I can empathize with those
who had it happen. I happened to be in Ireland for the shows and I
ended up missing out on a show that I travelled to another continent
to see. I also had front row for the Worcester show I mentioned before
and that would have been only my second Morrissey show ever.

I know how it feels. I just don't understand the hostility. I think
I was more upset that Your Arsenal didn't have a lyric sheet. Like
he was saying "The words aren't good enough to show up in print."
and I felt the same way with "Southpaw Grammar." With YA I was mad
to a point that looking back it was truly absurd. With SG I felt
that the lyrics truly weren't worth printing and I was more bothered
by the fact that the album was so empty rather than the lack of
printed lyrics.

> What annoys me most about the whole thing is people getting pissed on for
> speaking their mind and for being angry. All while Morrissey is being
> coddled and given the benefit of a doubt once again. He cannot be blame
> free every time.

You can blame him but I think in the end you shouldn't expend too much
energy on it. It's not really worth it. It would be nice if everyone who
had rose colored glasses would take them off but at the same time those
wearing shit colored glasses should remove their's as well.

I don't really care much for Oasis but they did say it quite well:

"Please don't put your life in the hands
Of a Rock n Roll band
Who'll throw it all away"

I really gotta start typing in Word and pasting after spell check.

> The cancelled Carnegie Hall shows were, according to Morrissey,
> put on sale without his permission. Is this true? I have no idea.

The story goes that his manager at the time made the arrangements. I believe it was Arnold Stieffel (hard to keep track--there've been so many!), who also apparently annoyed the band by cutting their salaries (according to the Uncut article from summer of '98).

Needless to say, he quickly went the way of Ken Friedman, Gail Coulson, Vicki Wickham and all the rest!

Cheers,

Jamie