Why in the @($*@(*$ is he gone?

My brother knew him very well... I called him tonight when I found out... when Layne's fiancee overdosed several years ago my brother spent 3 days with him on "suicide watch" as his friends took turns getting him through it... unfortunately Layne never could shake the heroin... I remember my brother coming around with Layne and some of the other "grunge" gang way before they were all famous and I would tease them for wearing flannel shirts with long- johns under their shorts... a few years later the WORLD dressed just like that and my preppy polo shirts were obsolete... Say what you will about Layne, Kurt Cobain, Andrew Wood, Jimi Hendrix and other, less-famous Seattle casualties: but they all did change the face of music...

No offence to Layne or any of his fans, family etc., bit I always thought Alice In Chains were about *the* worst band in the world, and the complete antithesis of what The Smiths were all about. Their music was angsty without being clever, witty or charming.

I hope Layne will be remembered as someone who screwed up their life with drugs, and not some sort of "rock'n'roll martyr". There's no glamour in pissing your life away on smack, and destroying what talent you have to fulfil some sort of myth of what it is to be a rock star. I thought the whole point of grunge was to "keep it real" and react against the excesses of the awful hair-metal of the late 80s. Sadly, many of the musicians from the grunge era (Kurt Cobain, Scott Weiland, Courtney Love and Layne Stanley to name a few) fell into the same trap the minute they could afford it.

STH

alice in chains made some great songs. For me it was the best band in the grunge era. They were heavy and melodic at the same time, very well influenced by black sabbath and some of their vocal duets were very very good. And Layne Stalay had a impressive voice too.

You know I am not a typical moz fan...

Anyway I agree completely with you that he was not a "rock`n roll martyr". For me all this sh.t about rock and roll martyrs is a waste of time. They simply screw up their lifes with drugs indeed...

true...they did change the face of music.... they made failure, drug abuse, bad dress sense, puerile music, and hugely unsophisticated rage, fashionable and admirable amongst the gen x crowd. nobody forces a needle into your arm....and millions of depressed people seem to make it through without destroying themselves with that crap. when you have the kind of global atrocities happening on the kind of scale they are these days, one feels a hesitancy to sympathize with a vainglorious, first-world rock star who *just can't handle the pressure anymore*. bollocks to that....good riddance.

> No offence to Layne or any of his fans, family etc., bit I always thought
> Alice In Chains were about *the* worst band in the world, and the complete
> antithesis of what The Smiths were all about. Their music was angsty
> without being clever, witty or charming.

> I hope Layne will be remembered as someone who screwed up their life with
> drugs, and not some sort of "rock'n'roll martyr". There's no
> glamour in pissing your life away on smack, and destroying what talent you
> have to fulfil some sort of myth of what it is to be a rock star. I
> thought the whole point of grunge was to "keep it real" and
> react against the excesses of the awful hair-metal of the late 80s. Sadly,
> many of the musicians from the grunge era (Kurt Cobain, Scott Weiland,
> Courtney Love and Layne Stanley to name a few) fell into the same trap the
> minute they could afford it.

I think you should probably listen to a bit more of Alice in chains. Not only a lot of their lyrics witty ( listen to every song on " Dirt") but the musicianship in the band is second to none. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just wish people who have no clue about music wouldn't comment on it. By the way what would it matter to you how Layne is remembered since you obviously could care less?
> STH

> I think you should probably listen to a bit more of Alice in chains. Not
> only a lot of their lyrics witty ( listen to every song on "
> Dirt") but the musicianship in the band is second to none. I know
> that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I just wish people who
> have no clue about music wouldn't comment on it.

I resent that last comment .....

I had "Dirt" and "Jar Of Flies" inflicted on me back in '94 by a grunge loving friend who tried to get me "over" bands like The Smiths, whom he seemed to think were "limp wristed faggot music". At the time I thought Alice In Chains were turgid, noisy bollocks, full of 'I don't want to tidy my bedroom' angst. I am happy to admit that my tastes may have mellowed over the last eight or so years, but I *did" hear some songs of theirs a few years back, and still wasn't that impressed.

I really hated grunge at the time .... I hated the music, the "rockism", the "slack is cool" attitudes, the lack of personal hygene, and the fact that it just seemed to be a retread of the sort of "dinosaur" rock that punk rebelled against. Whilst I still rate Nirvana as a first rate band, I think that most of the chancers who turned their metal bands into grunge bands when grunge became commercial were just aweful. (And yes, I know Alice in Chains had be around pre-grunge, since '87 or something as I recall.)

> By the way what would it
> matter to you how Layne is remembered since you obviously could care less?

I care because I think there are better things for "the kids" to aspire to than a bunch of guys doing smack and playing noodly riffs and moaning about how hard it all is, how they can't handle the pressure, maaaan, and how they're keeping it real.

STH

> No offence to Layne or any of his fans, family etc., bit I always thought
> Alice In Chains were about *the* worst band in the world, and the complete
> antithesis of what The Smiths were all about. Their music was angsty
> without being clever, witty or charming.

Alice In Chains may have been the complete opposite of The Smiths, but I think both bands' lyrics have a similar message, namely, life frequently sucks. Maybe AIC's lyrics WEREN'T "clever, witty, or charming," but that's not what depression is all about, anyway. Depression can turn an extremely charming person into the type of suicidal, "angsty," yes, even whiny, person that no one wants to be around. Morrissey wrote about the darker side of life in an engaging manner, and Layne's lyrics were certainly more doom-laden and bluntly suicidal than Morrissey's lyrics (I guess heroin will do that to a person); just because Layne didn't attempt to be a depressed version of Oscar Wilde as Morrissey successfully (and beautifully) did doesn't make his music any less relevant. And if you want to hear "charming" music, just listen to "Sap" and "Jar of Flies," AIC's two LPs; not every band can sound like The Smiths, but AIC are "charming" in their own way.

> I hope Layne will be remembered as someone who screwed up their life with
> drugs, and not some sort of "rock'n'roll martyr". There's no
> glamour in pissing your life away on smack, and destroying what talent you
> have to fulfil some sort of myth of what it is to be a rock star. I
> thought the whole point of grunge was to "keep it real" and
> react against the excesses of the awful hair-metal of the late 80s. Sadly,
> many of the musicians from the grunge era (Kurt Cobain, Scott Weiland,
> Courtney Love and Layne Stanley to name a few) fell into the same trap the
> minute they could afford it.

Yes, Layne and others have sent the wrong message, but they're only human. I'm sure if they could take back their decision to use heroin, they would do so in an instant. One stupid decision cost them their lives. I just have to say, though, that I still admire Layne's voice and lyrics, and I was sad, though not shocked, to read about his death. Layne and the rest of AIC got me through ages 12-15 (I wore out my copy of "Dirt"), and for that I will be eternally grateful.

R.I.P., LAYNE STALEY!!!

Another great email from my bro for any Alice in Chains fans

----

From : "jontando"
To : "Buncha People"
Subject : Layne Staley
Date : Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:15:22 -0700
I din't write this, but I should have tried to.
For the rumor-mongers, labellers, and finger pointers:
---

Some people have to step on others to feel good about
themselves. Others
think money is the answer to all things. Layne would be laughing
that anyone
is even talking about him and glad that those full of anger have
a place to
spew it out. Maybe if they shit it all out of their system they
will have
only good left in them, one can only hope.

Labeling Layne a junkie is as ridiculous as calling someone Big
Nose Joe or
Straight Haired Mary, and those of you who have to do it look in
the mirror
and tell me you don't see faults. Layne wasn't a Rockstar, he
was a human
being with the same human feelings we all have about ourselves.
He also had
the same insecurities. People who don't know you saying they
love you
doesn't change how you perceive yourself, because the bottom
line is you
know the truth. Those talking about him don't even know him.

Layne had a disease he tried desperately to rid himself of and
wished he
didn't have. Would you be so cruel to someone who had cancer?
You don't just
walk away from an addiction. If it's so easy, I challenge anyone
to give up
something as simple as sugar/high fructose corn syrup. I bet
they couldn't
even for one week; it's in everything: bread, mayonnaise, fruit
juice etc.
Until you've walked in those shoes........

As far as having the resources to get off it, there are far more
sick fucks
out there that wanted to get close to him by mailing him drugs,
and putting
them in his pocket when he'd go out, or stalking him than
friends and
family. Let me tell you he had a ton of those. To protect him
from those
people meant a lifestyle where your full time job was to
baby-sit the
situation. Who can pay their bills and live a normal life
protecting someone
else 24/7?

Layne was a beautiful sensitive man that would do anything for
anyone. He
loved everyone and truly appreciated that people dug him, dug
the band and
dug the music. The world is an uglier place without his
kindness,his warmth,
his great sense of humor, and his fun. Layne never accepted the
title of
Rockstar. He was just easygoing, approachable Layne. He thought
it was weird
people would want his autograph and people were down right rude
trying to
get it. While he was out to dinner or even going to the
bathroom. Being
successful doesn't allow people to have the right to do that.
What happened
to common courtesy? Yet he would oblige, smile and be friendly.

Layne didn't think of himself as a great artist. He was just a
man that
loved art, and I can say one of the most artistic people ever.
He could do
anything that involved creating art and do it extraordinarily
well.

I remember him talking to Kurt once about "how do you react to
the person
acting like your best friend that used to make your life pure
hell when you
were in school, then were too nice to tell them to fuck off?"
Instead they'd
be nice and let it eat them up inside.

Layne lost the love of his life 6 years ago; people would
actually show up
at the hospital with heroin for her in hopes of seeing him. Fans
even showed
up to her funeral! She too couldn't get away from the harassing
dealers and
on many occasions would have to hide in their house because
dealers or fans
with drugs would sit out front and stalk the place relentlessly.
Not for 20
minutes, not for an hour, we're talking: camping out, sleeping
in their
cars, sitting on the porch, and banging on the windows. Tell me
how you quit
an addiction when it's put in your face everywhere you turn?
Think of all
the freedoms you have, like going to the grocery store, going to
get gas,
going anywhere, which he didn't have.

You know how many people pretended to want to help him and ended
up stealing
from him? Not just things like money, his credit cards, music
equipment,
etc. but personal stuff he couldn't replace? Like pictures of
him and Demri,
or him and his friends, or him and his family. Those were
commodities to
people, to him they were valued treasures. Layne was never a
person to those
people, he was just a badge where people with low self-esteem
could brag
they knew him. In his altered sense and with his kind heart he
would never
get it until it was too late. When he did, he never did anything
harsh, like
press-charges. Those people robbed him of his girlfriend, robbed
him of his
family, and robbed him of his friends. Who out there would like
to go
through life wondering if everyone in your life has ulterior
motives and
never really knowing? The disappointment of how you'd feel when
you
discovered, one after another after another, had listened to
your innermost
personal thoughts, pretended to be a friend and wasn't.

He couldn't go back to music because heroin ravished his body
and it made
him feel more insecure and more like a target. Because of those
that feel
the need to put someone else down to feel good about themselves.
He spent
the last 5 years existing, not living. The Layne that died
wasn't the beam
of light he was to everyone that knew him. Although it was in
there
somewhere. Or the jokester that thought that farts were funny
and that would
laugh when Demri would geek out on a song or a commercial. He
didn't have a
home that was an open door to everyone like he did when he lived
on
Eastlake. The pad you could crash at after getting a little to
drunk at the
Off-Ramp or partying at the Son of Man house or El Steiner's.
Those were the
days he loved; a surprise birthday party at Naf's that Demri put
together
and his friends from War Babies, My Sister's Machine, Sweet
Water, Love on
Ice, etc. Playing, dressing up as a peasant girl for Halloween,
anything
chocolate, hanging out in the summer. It takes more than wanting
that back
for it to happen.

So they can say what they want, because the bottom line is it
doesn't matter
to those of us who knew and loved Layne and it certainly
wouldn't to Layne.
I doubt they matter to anyone in their lives and that's what's
really sad.
That they have to, like the drug addict harassers, latch on to
him in anyway
they can to feel like they got a piece of him and like they've
touched
greatness. What's even sadder is it's their loss because they
don't have a
person in their lives that would go to any lengths to put a
smile on their
face, do something for them, say nice things about them,
compliment them, or
make them feel good about themselves. Someone who would tell you
how much
value you had to him and to his life. All of us who knew him and
Demri could
go the rest of our lives as hermits with all the positivity they
passed on
to us because no one would be so lucky to get that in one
lifetime, let
alone from just 2 people.

I am glad he's not suffering anymore and I have no doubt Demri's
more than
happy to have him back. I am sure she's the Hostess with the
Mostest and has
made a home for everyone. With Andy, Shannon and Kurt who shared
her
birthday. With the recent death of one of her brothers, who died
in a car
crash last month. I'm positive, being the social butterfly she
is, everyone
in music is at their pad and they're just waiting for the rest
of us they
loved, and who loved them back, to arrive. Poor Layne has gone
back to being
the guy that everyone says, "Oh you're the guy that's Demri's
boyfriend";
with her being the celebrity in the family like it was when they
were first
dating.

Though I knew it would end this way, I refuse to forget the way
he was.

His name was Layne Elmer.
He liked wood shop and music.
He was a drummer first, then a singer.
He smoked some pot and popped cross tops.
He sang Metallica and Mercyful Fate covers in spandex and big
hair.

Even though he changed his last name, I always called him Elmer.
Even though he made it big, he always made time to visit with me
at shows.
Even though we didn't keep close contact, we always asked about
each others
families.
Even though he was famous, he acted like he wasn't.
Even though Layne Staley is a "God" or "Legend" to his fans, He
will always
be Layne Elmer to me.

i'm always vexed at people's tendency towards complete duplicity when it comes to other people dying.. especially celebrities. it seems that the pressure to amplify the positive....to celebrate to finer elements of a person, and their life and times....is immense. and yet, does it really help if we don't examine some painful, yet valid truths? most importantly...are you really a good friend if you voluntarily inject poison into your body...thus risking your own demise...thus causing tremendous heartbreak for those you supposedly care about? the addict apologists are usually the ones who have never stuck the needle in their arm.... snorted the lines of blow.... rolled their tails off. maybe the occasional budweiser, eh? get it straight man...drug people are selfish people. calling it an *illness* is an insult to all those who have cancer, m.s., parkinson's.... it's not the same thing. you may have the genetic predisposition for addiction...but you make a choice to use. feeling sorry for drug addicts does no good...in fact...it hurts. people who are screwing up their lives (and therefore, usually, other peoples lives) need to be slapped in the face...not coddled. they don't need neo-liberal, feel-good, never-lived-in-squalor-for-a-second, upper-middle class, star-f*ckers holding their hand in support as they wash down the drain. it doesn't work....it only facilitates their demise. that's all i have to say.... oh, and for the record...i am a drug user....and my eyes are wide f*ucking open about it.

> i'm always vexed at people's tendency towards complete duplicity when it
> comes to other people dying.. especially celebrities. it seems that the
> pressure to amplify the positive....to celebrate to finer elements of a
> person, and their life and times....is immense. and yet, does it really
> help if we don't examine some painful, yet valid truths? most
> importantly...are you really a good friend if you voluntarily inject
> poison into your body...thus risking your own demise...thus causing
> tremendous heartbreak for those you supposedly care about?

Surely you recognize one has a right to do what they want with their life, including putting what they want into their bodies, don't you? YEah,
it's heartbreaking to those around someone like that, but I don't feel like
I have a right to judge Layne, as I was a total stranger to him. The only thing I really know about LAyne was he had one good song, "Man in the Box,"
which I think was about the evils of veal?

>the addict
> apologists are usually the ones who have never stuck the needle in their
> arm.... snorted the lines of blow.... rolled their tails off. maybe the
> occasional budweiser, eh? get it straight man...drug people are selfish
> people.

This seems a little harsh to me. I'm not going to trash someone who died
just because he made decisions in his life which led to his own demise.
Really, we all have just one life, and we should be able to do what we want with it so long as you're not harming others, even if that means living for the needle. You weren't in his skin, so how can you judge?

>calling it an *illness* is an insult to all those who have cancer,
> m.s., parkinson's.... it's not the same thing.

I tend to agree with you here to the extent that I am not prepared to consider addiction a disease...yet. However, that's simply an issue of disagreement among medical experts at this point, awaiting further findings, and if one subscribes to the disease view of addiction it is not something I'd call an "insult" to those with diseases as you list.

>you may have the genetic
> predisposition for addiction...but you make a choice to use.

I totally agree with this point. It's amazing to me that those recovery groups advance the notion that an addict has NO control over their addiction.
Heroin is considered the most addictive drug, right? And yet everyone knows that heroin addicts do exert some amount of control over their addiction.
They have to, in order to regulate their tolerance (cutting down on use for awhile, to lower their tolerance level so they can still get high), or when they go to jail.

Here's what I'd call NO control: Do not read this sentence.

You read that sentence, right? You had no control over the matter.
That's not what it's like when a heroin addict shoots up. So, yes,
there is some amount of control and choice. This bothers me
most especially among the Alcoholics Anonymous crowd, as I happen
to believe many alcoholics would be better off trying to learn
to drink in moderation rather than abstaining 100%. To tell them
if they have one single drink they will become completely helpless
and lose control is, I believe, a lie and counterproductive for
many people.

Basically, my view is that an addict has such difficulty in quitting
because they organize their entire lives around their addiction.
It only takes a few days (right?) to end the physical addiction to
a drug, but the mental habit side of things is what's hardest.

>feeling sorry
> for drug addicts does no good...in fact...it hurts. people who are
> screwing up their lives (and therefore, usually, other peoples lives) need
> to be slapped in the face...not coddled.

I feel sorry for them. And if I do not personally know someone in a very close relationship, I try and mind my own business.

What's interesting about heroin specifically is that one can actually be a user and live to a ripe old age. Just look at William Burroughs. As hard drugs go, it's one of the kidnest to one's body organs, provided one has enough money to get good stuff. Many doctors are users of opiates, and many of them never even get hooked because they know if you only use about once every two weeks you'll never get hooked. Most of the problems with users are related to the squalid subculture they fall into and the crimes they must commit to pay for their habit. OVerdoses occur when one tries to quit, the tolerance goes down, and then they shoot up too much.

>they don't need neo-liberal,
> feel-good, never-lived-in-squalor-for-a-second, upper-middle class,
> star-f*ckers holding their hand in support as they wash down the drain. it
> doesn't work....it only facilitates their demise. that's all i have to
> say.... oh, and for the record...i am a drug user....and my eyes are wide
> f*ucking open about it.

Again, I think it's okay to have compassion for another person and not be so judgmental.

a good response....and we're in agreement about most things.... i think you misunderstood a large portion of my argument, however. i was not attempting to trash the man himself....rather, the culture that surrounds people dying from drugs. i absolutely, positively believe that we have (or should have) the right to put whatever we want to in our bodies.....but i also believe in taking responsibility for our actions....vis-a-vis recognising that it is a decidedly selfish act that could potentially hurt others who care about us. what i don't appreciate is people who somehow feel the need to mollify all of these *uncomfortable* issues once another person has gone off the deep end...in this case, a famous person. usually, i find these people who sympathize with the addict have never done drugs...or been around addicts. i have spent most of my life around both, and i can truly say that there's nothing to feel sorry for. it's like the white, upper-middle class suburbanite male who *really sympathizes with the plight of minorities*.... how the f*uck could they possibly? bottom line....don't feel sorry for him...celebrate that he was nice, or that he was an accomplished artist, or whatever...but don't start in with the sympathy bullsh*t....'cos that's all it is.