Hey Loafingoaf, I'm not trying to reopen old debates or anything but I pasted a link to this article on the evils of globilization, etc...the author's prediction pretty much came true. This is just a "in case you were interested in this".

http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=125&row=1

Excerpt from interview:
What they said was here you've got an elected president of the government and the IMF has announced, listen to this, that they would support a transition government if the president were removed. They are not saying that they are going to get involved in politics - they would just support a transition government.

What that effectively is saying we will pay for the coup d'etat, if the military overthrows the current president, because the current president of Venezuela has said no to the IMF. He told those guys to go packing. They brought their teams in and said you have to do this and that. And he said, I don't have to do nothing. He said what I'm going to do is, I'm going to double the taxes on oil corporations because we have a whole lot of oil in Venezuela. And I'm going to double the taxes on oil corporations and then I will have all the money I need for social programs and the government - and we will be a very rich nation. Well, as soon as they did that, they started fomenting trouble with the military and I'm telling you: ...the President of Venezuela will be out of office in three months or shot dead. They are not going to allow him to raise taxes on the oil companies.'

Then this

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20020412/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_8

Excerpt:
With Chavez's ouster, jubilant executives at Venezuela's state oil monopoly, who had been engaged in a work slowdown, promised to bring production and exports up to speed as quickly as possible.

Pedro Carmona, head of Venezuela's largest business association, announced he would head a transitional government to be installed later Friday.

Obviously a complex situation and not so cut and dry, but you can tell who was cutting the strings.

i thought you would have been more interested in last night's 60 minutes and how they said that Enron was a source of scandal in countries overseas for many years....with the backing of the american government.

India was threatened that if they didn't take Enron as their source of power, that the US would have economic sanctions levied against them and they would halt the allowance of any new companies from locating in their country for possible economic development. and the conditions of payment to Enron were highly favorable in their favor, guaranteeing them a certain amount of money even if the power was needed or not.

> i thought you would have been more interested in last night's 60 minutes
> and how they said that Enron was a source of scandal in countries overseas
> for many years....with the backing of the american government.

> India was threatened that if they didn't take Enron as their source of
> power, that the US would have economic sanctions levied against them and
> they would halt the allowance of any new companies from locating in their
> country for possible economic development. and the conditions of payment
> to Enron were highly favorable in their favor, guaranteeing them a certain
> amount of money even if the power was needed or not.

So much news, so little time. Really, I can't keep up on all my soaps and the news. Besides, I knew that my friendly Texan would never let me miss a beat.

Actually I have read many stories on Enron and oil industry lobbyists. Who do you think was driving the sub that killed the Japanese fishermen? At least no one ever got killed in the Lincoln bedroom.

> Hey Loafingoaf, I'm not trying to reopen old debates or anything but I
> pasted a link to this article on the evils of globilization, etc...the
> author's prediction pretty much came true. This is just a "in case
> you were interested in this".

First I should tell you why I consider myself a believer in
global capitalism.

Capitalism, first of all, as Karl MArx himself pointed out, is
a revolutionary force. (In fact, Marx even pointed to AMERICA
specifically as the heart of revolution and freedom for the world, and this,
I believe, has proved true.)

Capitalism means simply a liberal market economy with free
competition. A system where the individual is his own master and the master of his property, with freedom of contract, the power to start up in business, and the ability to move about, travel and trade regardless of national boundaries. Decision making, mostly, rests with people, not with politicians and government. That's I guess the textbook theory and it sounds good and is
indeed revolutionary.

Now then, what effect has the globalization of capitalism had on the world
thus far? Here are some of the facts as I understand them......

-Over the past 40 years, average life expectancy in the developing countries has risen from 46 to 64 years.

-Since 1950, infant mortality has fallen from 18% to 8%.

-The proportion of illiterates has fallen from 70% to about 25%.

-Since 1970 the proportion of people in the world who have to go hungry has fallen from 37% to 18%.

-During the 1990s alone, the world extreme poverty percentage fell from 29% to 23% (about 100 million people).

-The number of states which are democratically governed and respect human rights is increasing. Today there are 120 democratic states with a combined population of 3.5 billion people (60% of the world population), more than ever before in history.

There are still huge problems in the world, but the facts suggest to me that the world has become a better and a fairer place. While many of the
rich have indeed gotten richer, generally speaking the poor have not become
worse off. Take Asia, where extreme poverty was the greatest, for example.
Hundreds of millions of people in Asia now have more secure existances and
even modest affluence. Africa is a different story, but in Africa there
has been no committment to democracy and capitalism.

Furthermore, between 1965 and 1998, the average world citizen’s income almost doubled, from $2,497 to $4,839. For the poorest one-fifth of the world’s population, the increase has been faster, with average income more than doubling during the same period from $551 to $1,137. In China, the World Bank has spoken of “the biggest and fastest poverty reduction in history”.

And yes, global capitalism is behind all this. Free people living
in capital;ist society have made possible the spread of information, technology, and prosperity throughout the world. Also, the spread of
medicines and health care. Technology boosts productivity and improves
food supplies. Economic liberty is connected to political liberty.
It also is, as CAmille Paglia has written persuasively, behind women's rights and reducing discrimination in general, as global capitlism doesn't care if the best producer is female or male. And descrimination is expensive. And last but certainly not least, autonomy under capitalism gives dignity and independance to the opressed. We take it for granted that an invidual has a right to be his own person. This is not self-evident worldwide.
Morrissey sings "I am mine," but to much of the world such thoughts did not
take hold in people's minds until capitalism came to them.

When I say all of this, understand that this is simply why at my core
I support global capitalism as a general belief. All is not rosey in the world or with global capitalism. But I believeit is pure ignorance that's
behind the anti-gloablization movement, which keeps tellng us global
capitalism is making the world worse. Please show me how one can
believe that? PRove to me the world is worse off due to global capitalism.

So, again, in my view capitalism is the most revolutionary forth on earth,
and is the process for making the world a better place. The facts
I list are not in dispute. Yet, while you go on about the biased media,
I see plenty in the media about the myths anti-globalism types spread
about how capitalism makes the world worse, and I see almost nothing
about the information I just shared with you. Why is that?
Again, all of this simply proves what Karl Marx, God to the socialists
and communists who apparently have never read his works, predicted himself.
And so now we have these very backwards, luddite, conservative anti-
globalization, anti-internationlist, anti-modern protestors. Pat Buchanan
side by side with outdated socialists. What do they want? What kind of world? They have no grasp of how backwards the world
would be if they were running the show, and how grim the future would look. However trendy such a movement is on college campuses, I seriously doubt such
privileged students would like the world their
socialist, agrarian, anti-modern revolution would bring to them. I happen
to wanna live in a dynamic, international, modern world. That sounds exciting. Kinda like... what Bill Clinton told me, a politician you seem to have said you voted for and admired for his economic policies, no?

OK, so I hope all this at least tells you where I am coming from.

As for what you offer me below, the mistake you make is the suggestion
that if I support global captialism, as a general belief, that I must defend
the political institutions structuring it no matter what they do.
Which is absurd. I don't support everything such political institutions
do, and I would probably be in mucn agreement with anti-globalization
people on some of these things. What I support is simply giving freedom to the world. What do you support?

> http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=125&row=1 Excerpt from interview:
> What they said was here you've got an elected president of the government
> and the IMF has announced, listen to this, that they would support a
> transition government if the president were removed. They are not saying
> that they are going to get involved in politics - they would just support
> a transition government.

> What that effectively is saying we will pay for the coup d'etat, if the
> military overthrows the current president, because the current president
> of Venezuela has said no to the IMF. He told those guys to go packing.
> They brought their teams in and said you have to do this and that. And he
> said, I don't have to do nothing. He said what I'm going to do is, I'm
> going to double the taxes on oil corporations because we have a whole lot
> of oil in Venezuela. And I'm going to double the taxes on oil corporations
> and then I will have all the money I need for social programs and the
> government - and we will be a very rich nation. Well, as soon as they did
> that, they started fomenting trouble with the military and I'm telling
> you: ... the President of Venezuela will be out of office in three months
> or shot dead. They are not going to allow him to raise taxes on the oil
> companies.' Then this

>
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20020412/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_8
> Excerpt:
> With Chavez's ouster, jubilant executives at Venezuela's state oil
> monopoly, who had been engaged in a work slowdown , promised to bring
> production and exports up to speed as quickly as possible.

> Pedro Carmona, head of Venezuela's largest business association, announced
> he would head a transitional government to be installed later Friday.
> Obviously a complex situation and not so cut and dry, but you can tell who
> was cutting the strings.

One direct comment on what you wrote:

You try to make it sound like everything is peachy for the poor of the world. Well the gap between the rich and the poor has grown to it's larget expanse ever. Yes the poor are making more money than they were numerically 10 years ago, or whatever, but the rich have increased at a far greater rate.

General comments:

Global capitalism fails when the free market is allowed to control necessities.

Do you ever think you've been overcharged on...
gas, phone bill, cable bill, or insurance? Those aren't even necessities.

Wait until water electricity and, who knows...maybe even in a 100 years...oxygen is controlled by private industry.

California got to see what happens when private industry controls electricity. Many countries around the world are being strongarmed into giving up control of their water rights and electricity rights. World banks take over the local ones...etc.

We don't even have true democracy in the US.

Why is it that you told me originally you don't have time to read that article then you have time to write a respons ethat probably took you three times as long to write?